New House = Acoustic Nightmare
 

So i finally moved to a new house and as i expected all that minimal industrial design (full of glass) is not helping my music system. A lof of echo.

The space for the music room is 4x4 meters but connected to the living room area and dining room.

It sounds much worst than my previous house and considering i plan to stay here for 5 years i decided to call an expert in acoustics to see what we can do.

I care a lot about design so i am not a fan of acoustic panels and stuff but hopefully there is some middle ground. I am waiting for their proposal. In the meantime i share the initial situation with you guys...

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One thing is for sure now... for first time since i joined this audiophile hobby that i dont have any intention to spend more money in upgrading my gear unless i fix first the "room".

4x4 is already not great and the amount of glass doesn't help, will be interesting what the acoustic guy can do, hopefully you get a satisfactory result

I think you need to reconsider your '5 year plan' ...........

The new generations of acoustic panels from brands like Artnovion, etc offer equipment that suits minimal and modern envrinoments without transforming them into a studio like room.

Would it be possible to have a heavy curtain on rails on each side. When music is priority no 1 you can pull them along the glas surfaces.
And behind the listening position I would suggest some s-wings. You can get them in see through acrylic if preferred. http://www.diffusor.com/Nyheter.htm I don´t have them my self but several of my friends use them with successful result.

Yes heavy side curtains will make quite a significant difference. At least it has in my space.

It will be interesting to see what your expert says. It appears as though the size is close to a perfect cube. On top of that is all that glass. It will be tough.
More rugs and heavy roman shade type drapes would be the only thing I could suggest if you don’t want to mess with the design aesthetic. It is a very nice room, but you might have to give some aesthetic for audio.
This hobby is really all about finding the compromise that suits you. Few of us have unlimited budget and space for equipment and rooms. So, we end up in a comfortable place where you live with less audio bliss in exchange for something else. For me, my room is smaller than I want in every dimension. But, I’m lucky in that I can do reasonable room treatment.

The general idea is to treat first reflection points. You might get by with some dense fabric that can roll down. I think full curtains on both sides will make the room too dead.

Anther option is just two acoustic panels (one on each side) on a stand/base at just the first reflection point on both side walls (glass/mirror). Something about 3' w x 5' h x 4" d would do it.

Don't forget to put some absorption panels on the ceiling too (also at the first reflection point).

A beautiful but difficult room to be sure. Acoustic treatment on the ceiling could be done discretely in a matching color. Free-standing acoustic panels could be used for the sides, pulled out in front of the glass at first reflection point for listening, then slid back out of the way towards the wall when done.

Indeed Artnovion has panels with designs that fit any type of room environment.

Ok lets continue...

First of all brief introduction of myself: I am from Barcelona (Spain) but living in Jakarta (Indonesia) and here the audiophile sector is not as developed as in your country, so i dont have all options you have and experts here dont seem that expert to me... that is why i prefer to have your advice.

So... the first company sent me proposal and as i expected they send me proposal without coming to my place. This seems quite weird to me. You are giving a prescription without visiting the sick person.

This is their proposal:

4 Absorbers (left and right side) (total cost 588 usd)
2 Basstrap (on the corner) (total cost 588 usd)
2 Diffusor (behind speaker) (total cost 515 usd)

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I asked him about the ceiling. He said no need.

So basically i dont trust these guys but waiting for your opinion.

Then, the second company that i contacted sent me whatsapp asking me What is wrong with the music, what are the problems... so basically these second guys are trying to understand the problem before sending their proposal... i already like them more... i was exchanging some whatsapps and just waiting for him to tell me to come see by himself.. but he was not telling me... so finally i said "Dont you think you should maybe come to my place to see the patient?" and he said yes of course... so now waiting for this person to come...

Since you're from indonesia i would recommend you to check out http://www.tasindoaudio.com.

Thanks Miguel. I already contacted them. Do you live here?

There is a cure!

I did a demo at home with some panels and what a difference! I can live with this sound.

Basically they put Diffusor behind the amp, basstrap on both corners and absorbers on the side.

Now i need to find a solution for absorbers to make them like a stand and customize colors.

I see from your recommendations that you mention to put a panel also in ceiling on top of listener position. I will ask them to do also.

But overall very pleased with the solution from a sound point of view.

Aestethically... well.. i guess i will learn to live with that... if i customize colors and match all of them... they will not look that bad.

First time i play with acoustic treatment.. and it is as you always mention in this Forum... what a difference it makes... like magic.

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Excellent, congratulations.

The solution to making the panels free standing is simple. Attach a couple feet to the bottoms of the panels. Most companies that sell free standing panels (called gobos in studio parlance) ship any panel designed to be floor standing with feet but you can make your own using two appropriately sized pieces of wood placed at right angles to the panel. Just screw them in.

I don't get the diffusor behind the equipment on the front wall. Very non-standard room treatment and there is really not much sound coming off that area that you would want to diffuse.

Standard practice would have absorption on the front wall and diffusion on the wall behind your head. Since that area is open, you don't need a diffusor panel.

Ask the guys to put some absorption on your front wall instead of the diffusor and see if you like it better. If you feel the bass in the room is not right yet, you can stack another bass trap on top of the ones there and go twice as high.

Google LEDE (Live End Dead End) acoustic treatment. You want absorption on the front and side walls.

I hired a world class acoustician who designs recording studios consult on several control rooms and my personal home theater/mastering studio. Diffusion goes on the rear wall behind your head if necessary, but your room does not need it because the wall is so far away.

Josep - glad you've decided to add panels to help with reflection.
I am also going to suggest (like others have) adding drapes/curtains. If you can get your hands on the ones thick enough to block out the sun, you can maintain your tasteful room while significantly improving the sound. The drapes will absorb the echo that must be going on when you turn up the volume.
I also think if you can mount the diffuser on the wall about 1.5 ft from the floor, it will further improve vocal
clarity.

By the way, love the Eames listening chair.

Cheers.

Thanks for your comments. Actually tomorrow they will finally bring all the panels. It is going to be very similar as pictures already posted. I asked 2 acoustic companies to provide me solution and both of them offer the same idea:

difusor behind amp
basstrap in corners
absorbers in side

As i mentioned before i was very please when the home demo. The sound was even better than in the dealer showroom (they do not have any special treatment).

I want to post now here some pictures of the new position of the speakers (SF O3). Before i put them following recommendation from SF mannual (around 70 cm from rear wall) but now i changed to 140 cm from rear wall and the sound has improved a lot. I dont have that dramatic bass problem as before.

Now the speakers are 140 cm from rear wall and around 660 cm from the front wall (behind chair).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nx...Q=w883-h662-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uE...4=w883-h662-no

About difusor location... i am not an expert... both companies suggested this and i have seen many beautiful setups on internet with difusors behind the music system.

About curtains i know it would be better to follow your recommendation.. but i really dont want to mess that much with the decoration of the house :)

In few days i will post the final result.

So this is it. Happy with the result except for absorbers on the side that look "meh". I wanted them in white but they did not have the color.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Md...I=w830-h613-no

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The biggest impact was to separate more the speakers from the rear wall. Now they are 140 cm from wall behind and 700 cm from the front wall.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f5...o=w824-h613-no

Very pleased overall and most important is that i am back to my favourite hobby....

Washing the dishes...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e9...0=w460-h613-no

Great looking room. You need an RCM.

For some reason the new pictures are not showing up for me. I use Firefox.

Thanks for the blow-by-blow progress report.

I use GIK absorbers (on the slide walls) and diffusers (behind my dipoles). They work really well.