How does vinyl compare to HD digital?
 

How does modern vinyl (probably recorded digitally in studio) compare to HD tracks, FLAC, and Tidal?

I get the vinyl vs CD debate, but I don't know how this applies if the analog Vinyl's source was digital anyway. I don't really know the sources, but I'll assume modern pop/indie/rock/alternative started out on a PC or a Mac.

I'm thinking of buying a record or two to go demo with at my local stores. Some of my favorite artists aren't sold in HD Tracks or FLAC, but they do have low quality itunes :no:, CDs, and LPs :scratch2:.

they are both good and compare well. Nothing beats HD digital ease of use and endless libraries. Vinyl sounds quite good as well when set up right however changing album sides every 15 to 20 minutes is a bit of a drag.

I like both and play both regularly, depending on my mood depends on which I choose.

Classical is noticeably better via HD as the quiet passages are indeed dead quiet. Mind you I have some very very nice pressings of classical performances which I love to spin after a long day at work.

One of the big benefits for myself with vinyl is I am learning a lot more and listening to a lot of new stuff which has greatly expanded my horizons due to the included materials with most albums coupled with the fact I am listening to artists I would not have normally made an effort to.

hope this helps

What's the point of listening to vinyl that was mastered from digital? Not only are you missing out on the whole point of listening to analog in the first place but chances are, with all the variables that go into setting up a great sounding vinyl rig, your final result is worse than it would be if you listened to that same music in digital.

If you've got a dialed-in vinyl rig and like the way it sounds, why not?

For me, I like the added distortion I get by playing digitally mastered vinyl. That, and the added inconvenience makes it a no-brainer. :)

Seriously, though, there is a certain enjoyment to be gained in the ritual of playing a vinyl record compared to playing a digital file. It doesn't have anything to do with the sound though.

If I hadn't been playing vinyl for 50 years and put together and uber-tweaked vinyl rig, there is no way I would start now. Modern DAC's are so good they eclipse all but the very best analog mastered vinyl.

My 5 year old son said it best: "Dad, could you play one of those big black CD's?"

Sure.

The first and last digital mastered vinyl I purchased were the Beatles and Rolling Stones. I did this because the vinyl was recorded from the 24 bit master not the 16 bit cd master hoping it would sound better than the cd version . The new masters had slightly better bass which sold me but in reality they both sound good so I hardly ever play the vinyl and they sit on the shelf with the rest of my vinyl collection . Since I purchased my D1100 and Aurender N100H I listen mostly to digital. A few weeks ago I did a short demo for someone and they asked to compare the tidal streaming version of blues song TinPan Alley to my vinyl version which is over 30 years old. The vinyl sounded better, imaging was much more palpable in depth and width, the digital streaming version was good but compare with vinyl was like a color filter over the lens of a camera in comparison to the vinyl. My point is I now buy vinyl that is recorded analog and remaster digital recordings I download or stream and skip buying on vinyl.

For me it comes down to the mastering process. Since the LP, CD and HiRez file are rarely mastered by the same person there can be differences that make any format sound better or worse. Generally the version (for the same album) that was mastered the best is what sounds the best regardless of what the media type is. One exception, and there may be others, is the Sheffield Lab D2D LP's. Since those are out of print now and there are no "copies" other than the "safety" analog tapes from the sessions, the Vinyl versions of those (if in good shape) tend to sound quite a bit better than the digitizations of the analog tape "safety" recordings.

Tom, I get the fun part. I also loved my brief vinyl phase with a few rather nice turntables such as the SME20/IV arm/DynavectorXX2 which sounded great with the analog master tape vinyl from Blue Note for example. I started buying more vinyl without paying attention and expanding my collection and noticed the sound was much worse on some, the analog smoothness and ease was absent. Of course they turned out to be the digital to vinyl transfers. Ehhh, no thanks. The vinyl industry simply got on the gravy train and It’s just another way to make you part with your money. Well I personally can’t be bothered going through all the cleaning rituals to listen to vinyl that sounds actually worse than digital itself because of mastering from digital to vinyl.

By far the most impressive sound are the newer recordings done natively in high resolution. When listening to the native resolution and not so much the upsampled version, I can finally see some real potential in digital. We will see more of it in the future.

As far as great vinyl? Well, there are only so many original master tapes left in storage vaults and most of them have already been done.

:thumbsup:

I agree with Serge, a lot of 'todays vinyl' is remastered from digital, makes no sense in my book.

enjoying the album cover / liner notes is one of the benefits of 'physical media'

amen to that, same with me !

5 year old son !! wow , you're a late bloomer !!

With all this being said...... my 7 year old grandson gave me for Christmas a very nice 'all' analog LP - Gillian Welch, 'The Harrow & the Harvest'

Bingo. This is why digital sourced (CD or hi-res) vinyl can sound better than its CD or even hi-res download (heresy!!) IF the download is compressed to death and the vinyl mastering used non-compressed files.

I have many digitally sourced LPs that sound identical or worse than the CD and many that sound divine. It’s a crapshoot.

It pays to research for opinions on SQ on other websites before laying down 30 bucks for a vinyl record. I learned my lesson years ago after blowing lots of cash on ok at best pressings.

Bottom line, vinyl and HiRes can both be great or lousy. Gotta do your homework.

Yep. The Harrow and the Harvest will restore one’s faith in well done vinyl. It is awesome and I don’t have Digital anything that matches its sound quality.

I agree we have to be discriminating in how/what we purchase on vinyl, but I still love it. That said, Whichever sounds best is fine with me. So, I maintain vinyl, Digital, cd/SACD rigs plus an FM tuner. Surely overkill and some are underused, but it sure is fun. I have multiple copies of things I like in multiple formats - for me, that’s part of the fun.

I do this all the time, compare a digital hi-rez file to the vinyl version. At best they sound the same, where vinyl seems to win always is in sound stage, it has a wider presentation than any digital copies I have, I don't have many DSD files but these too, most of what I have is 24 bit FLAC files.
Clearly because of the lower noise floor of Digital files, you hear the music and that is all, one would think that would be enough.
But I find that digital can be too clinical and some of the breathyness of vocals and acoustics are lost, that I hear with records.

There is a song by Marillion on their album marillion.com, Interior Lulu where a vocal passage was given some echo/reverb in the mix and on the digital file it expands maybe 2-3 feet wider and pushed forward 4 feet past my speakers, nice.......The vinyl version, this same passage the vocals are literally pushed so far forward they are to the left and right of my ears, just crazy wide and forward. (And I sit about 12 feet from my speakers)

I admit I spend more on my analog end than my digital end...but that is what makes me happy.

Cheers

+1 Due to the stereo bass limitations and limited dynamic range of the format, I think vinyl is way harder to master than digital.

Dave, my 5 year old is now 23. Time flies!

Tom

My bad Tom, I guess I misread you initial post ! you sure are right about time flying by ....... :tears:

When I first heard a 25 000 USD MSB dac and transport (3 boxes) play side by side with a 25 000 USD vinyl rig in the same room with the same gear. I realized that to my ears, for the same money, vinyl is preferred. CD can still sound really good. But the goosebumps are not as common in that context.

Well I think a CD (redbook 16bit) loses all the time against a well setup/assembled analog rig.
I'll be the first to raise my hand and say it should not, but reality is it does. I bet that MSB Dac will play 24bit and DSD files like nothing else.
But for me if I had to chose which setup to buy for $25K.....Vinyl rig.

That's me....

-Digital system in our living room
+
-Analog rig in my dedicated room

is the way to go for me and I'm in the process of completing both thankfully.

While I was waiting for the delivery of my new turntable I ordered a copy of 'The Harrow & the Harvest' from Gillian's website. Now I really can't wait for the TT to arrive so I can sit down and listen to it.

The great digital/HD vs vinyl debate marches on. All I can say is that when I was digital only, including HD, I just didn't listen to music as much and didn't go out of my way to do so - it didn't touch me in the same way. When I listen to vinyl, I get totally absorbed by the music and I want to sit down and listen. Go figure, YMMV.

Also, I started playing acoustic guitar about a year and a half ago. I turn 61 in May and I've now played 3 open mics - singing and accompanying myself on guitar and playing with others. I never would have guessed I'd do this. But a side benefit is that I'm now listening to a lot of music that I didn't listen to before to increase my repertoire and, when I listen, I want to do so on vinyl. It just, to my ear, sounds more natural especially when it's music I'm familiar with from playing/singing. Again, YMMV.

Where do you guys check for reviews about vinyls before purchasing? I tend to check on DISCOGS... but would like to know if other source

I typically go to Steve Hoffman’s music forum.

You can also check the dynamic range database.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr/desc

Very interesting site. The bands I like are a total failure according to this database. I did notice that the vinyl when available ranked better than CD and downloads.

Steve Hoffman Forum is my go to site as well, more information about sound quality and vinyl pressings than you can imagine. If you can’t find it there, the information may not be available :D.

- Buck

+1

+1

Ok great.. i ll check this Steve H then!

Steve Hoffman forums indeed...Great info.

I have to agree with you. I think vinyl made from digital sources is terrible. May as well listen to the cd or file.

analogplanet for reviews

An unbiased site for sure [emoji4] .

I would suggest Steve Hoffman forums as others have....

I still smile when I read this post...True and yet very witty. :D

I enjoyed reading this thread. Many of the opinions people have voiced here are exactly how I feel.

If I take my best vinyl recordings and compare them to the best digital, there’s no question in my mind that the vinyl wins. However, every recording is different! That’s why I like having both an analog rig as well as a full digital one.

Any time I buy new music, I research online which version sounds the best and buy that version!

Done well, vinyl is more expensive.
Done right, vinyl is more work,

Vinyl abides because it sounds better - a lot better.

Serge...

In theory I would agree with you. Makes no sense to listen to a vinyl that was digitally mastered.
In practice it is an other story.
I keep buying lots of vinyls and at least in France, the vinyl departments get bigger everyday.
In my system, most vinyls even mastered from digital sound "better" to me than the digital file even with HD recordings. I do not know precisely what is going on. Maybe the special sound "massage" is given by the Koetsu Urushi Vermillion. A bit like what happens with Shindo electronics. It is not really "better" to speak precisely. It is more involving, it attracts you deeper in the listening. It transforms the experience of listening to music into a deeply focused meditation.
To speak simply : nothing in my system is more musical than the Verdier with the Koetsu cartridge. No matter if the vinyl is a pure analog one or not.
Maybe you will hear it one day ! ;)
[BTW, I am replacing my inspired from Petite Latour speakers with speakers inspired by the Latour but using TAD 2001 compressions instead of the Westrex ones. And of course still the fabulous Altec 416 drivers....]

I generally agree that my favorite LP's were definitely analog masters. That said one LP I own and really enjoy is Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries and it is definitely mastered from digital and the LP for sure sounds better than any digital file I've heard of that recording. No idea why and for sure there are many digital mastered LP's that are trash but I can't say its always true for sure. Depends on the recording and the mastering process.

George

How does vinyl compare to HD digital?
 

“How does vinyl compares to HD digital?”

I think that the answer requires categorization in terms of price range and it should not be limited to HD sources.

Based on my recent experience, a $5k dollars digital front end that can upsample and convert all sources to DSD512 can outperform an analog set up of the same price. And I am not talking about playing HD files only. My 16/44 music coming from Tidal or regular (ripped) CDs and played in DSD 512 sound better than my LPs.

I do not know at which price point analog is better than digital. But given what I have experienced, I personally see no reason or need to spend more money on my analog gear or any reason to buy expensive HD files either.

Today’s digital is not the same digital of 10 years ago. Paraphrasing the Oldsmobile commercial: This is not your father’s digital.

Yet to see a digital recording beat this...............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uby5...=RDxz-Y78hg-es

Untouchable as far as I know.