Cable Fraud, Is It Real?
 

You read the warnings about fraud when it comes to cables from manufacturers web-sites, is it too much to ask a cable manufacturer to validate serial numbers?

Still wonder who really is making cables in a fraudulent way, and how many of these do they really sell to such a small community or is it a game of fear to always feed the machine?

Thoughts?

It seems real enough, particularly with high priced cables that are popular in Asia like Siltech. Asia is a huge high end audio market. Do you have experience where manufacturers refuse to validate serial numbers?

NordOst will not do that anymore , they told me. As there are too many asking, also according to NordOst.

That's odd - I would think they'd be grateful that people are authenticating their products. That's in the maunufacturer's best interest. What's the value of a serial number if it can't be referenced?

I can only say i think the same as you do, but as i asked for them if they would, i was told no as they dont have enough time to do so. Also seems kind of odd to me as i would suppose a bigger company like them would have serial numbers on computer where it wouldn't take them long to look up.

Unfortunately, it is a real problem. They just emulate the outer appearance of a cable. The innards are absolute crap. In some cases, they don’t try all that hard to do a good job on the outside. This is one of the reasons we no longer use printed heatshrink for labeling. it is far to easy to duplicate. There is actually a high-end speaker in China “designed by Caelin Gabriel”. For the record, I have never designed a speaker.

Of more concern to me are the people ripping off technology and applying to their own product lines. These people we prosecute. We have even received Chinese patents so the we can prosecute Chinese manufacturers.

We receive many requests to validate authenticity of our products weekly, We are very happy to provide this information. Usually all it takes is a closeup photo or the serial number.

I would like to say that Shunyata has been wonderful about authenticating cables. They have authenticated all the power and signal cables I bought used. I emailed them pictures and serial number and they were quick to reply. They also have excellent customer service. I broke the end of a Venom USB cable I bought new a couple years ago. They were very quick again to reply and give me an RMA number.

I have heard that Audioquest is one of the brands that you have to be careful about fakes. I would be very leery of any cable coming from China or Asia.

Caelin.......I am pleased to read you prosecute counterfeiters of your products. These thieves deserve to be unmasked and made to suffer the consequences of their illegal activities. Intellectual property and proprietary designs are your rightful creations. Those who seek to steal from you deserve the full force of the law brought down upon them. I commend your actions and wish other manufacturers would be more willing to share your concern and efforts.

Thank you, Dan. We have shutdown several operations in China with the help of our “Chinese Authorities”. And a couple in the good old US of A.

Bravo! I would expect high end luxury product manufacturers to gladly validate the authenticity of their wares. Counterfeiting is rampant and interconnects are an easy target. Part of the long term value of a high end offering is a guarantee of its provenance.

Hey Tom,

I share your same view points, and for Caelin the utmost respect on your attitude and approach.

I hope I am misinterpreting FDPDK and wrong about what he says about Nordost, if not, I see this as a major concern in the sense of serial numbers have ZERO value on a high ticket item along with ZERO accountability.

I just can’t picture not putting our FEI code on our labels for seafood and telling the FDA we felt that too many people are asking about food safety.

Nordost prefers dealer inquiries regarding client requests for authenticity, etc.

Getting back to fraud -- it's all over the place -- CD's, power products, watches, fake jem stones, golf gloves, and the list goes on & on. Due diligence is definitely required by the consumer. Glad to hear anytime a company goes after these manipulators.

Best Sirs,

Bob

Hi Bob.

I would for sure have liked to get that info from NordOst , i was just told in an email correspondence they don't do serial number check anymore , as they dont have enough time for it. And i was kind of disappointed to hear that.

I can also say that it sounds really good the way that Shunyata deals with serial number request .

Was he the Danish/European distributor?

Here's the problem the way I see it Flemming -- if someone is devious enough to fake a cable like Nordost, that person is going to surf the net for pictures and reproduce the wooden blocks & stencil them with the serial number he saw off the web.

Therefore the unknowing buyer gets hosed and in itself defeats the whole authentication purpose & ones peace of mind.

Again, though my dealer would check a serial number with Nordost if I asked. He cautions though, as long as it's not a reoccurring request.

Best Sir,

Bob

[QUOTE=vintage_tube;897234]Was he the Danish/European distributor?

No it was NordOst i emailed with , regarding which cables to start with and then i asked if i bought 2nd hand , if they could tell me from the serial number if the cable was NordOst or not....
Then i got the answer from that person at NordOst they dont have time to do it.

Here's the problem the way I see it Flemming -- if someone is devious enough to fake a cable like Nordost, that person is going to surf the net for pictures and reproduce the wooden blocks & stencil them with the serial number he saw off the web.

I completely agree with you Bob.

Therefore the unknowing buyer gets hosed and in itself defeats the whole authentication purpose & ones peace of mind.

You are correct , and therefor i am not going yo buy 2nd. hand Nordost cables unless the seller has an receipt from the shop he bought it in.

Again, though my dealer would check a serial number with Nordost if I asked. He cautions though, as long as it's not a reoccurring request.

And here i might be wrong , but i think that generally in Denmark / Scandinavia we do not have the same level of service as you Americans seem to have.

I was “duped” buying Synergistic Research cables from a retailer in the USA a few years back. When I received them they just didn’t look right. I contacted Synergistic Research with the serial numbers and they confirmed these were fake. They asked me to send them back to them at SR so they could prosecute.

Outcome: retailer was shut down and they sent me the correct cables for free!
Brilliant service at SR even better cables.

Now that’s a win/win and spectacular customer service!

Wireworld is always happy to verify authenticity of their cables, either through a dealer or direct from an end user.

[QUOTE=FDPDK;897251]While I can understand why you might think that - it is actually quite easy to authenticate products. At least it is for us. Many of the materials, connectors and wires are only made by us. So even without a serial number, it is easy to identify frauds. And most of the companies that make copies don’t really care about doing a good job. We have ALWAYS been able to identify a fraud simply with closeup photos. And there are methods we have to identify a fraud even if it was meticulously copied. Those methods we don’t reveal. But trust me on this - it is literally impossible to make a copy of our products that we couldn’t readily identify. We have actually invested a lot of time and effort on this front.

You could say we take it personally.

Ted Denney, what a star!

Have to be careful with PS Audio power cords. I purchased five counterfeit AC-12's in September from three different sellers in the U.S., including on Audiogon. Took about three weeks of burnin to realize something was amiss. Got my money back except for return shipping. The real ones (2m) weigh about 3.5 lbs, while the fakes are around 2 lbs 10 oz. I always ask now for an original receipt or for them to weigh the cords before making an offer (cost me a buy in one case). There are good deals to be had on new ones in the U.S. from dealers and sometimes in the used market, if verified, so no need to play roulette going to China.

It's sounding as if it's safer to buy directly from the company, when possible.

However, maybe that depends upon the brand in question? I've also bought from vendors I am familiar with (Ivan, Music Direct) and noticed nothing amiss. That's how I obtained my Shunyatas. A couple of my Transparents were purchased from a local dealer (Stereo Exchange); most were purchased from Transparent directly. I don't know that I'm sophisticted enough to catch a fake unless it's obvious, so I think I'll keep my circle tight for any future cable buys.

I have bought and sold used cables in the past but now will only buy from a known and trusted vendor. It's also another way to support B&M which I believe still has a vital role in this business.

This has been and interesting read. I appreciate all the input.

I guess the old adage "if is sounds to good to be true..."

Kimber happily authenticates cables as well.

I bought a demo pair of 1 meter AQ King Cobras interconnects from a reputable dealer a few years back. One of the pair looked like it was an early or first generation King Cobra and the other one was an obvious counterfeit because the jacket weave was incorrect. I suspect people who had bought counterfeits online were then buying authentic cables from the dealer and sending the counterfeits to the dealer as returns.

I have a pair of XLO Reference 3 interconnects that I like rather well. A while back I thought I'd look for some used Reference 3 or Signature 3. I was perplexed by how authentic the XLO interconnects from China look in pictures. Maybe they are pictures of authentic interconnects; but they would send you something else. The wires, connectors and the hologram sticker on the bead all looked authentic in the pictures. I think they even listed them as new instead of used and of course they were priced at about 80% lower than the usual retail price. I received my XLO's direct from the company. I'm afraid to buy XLO's used if they have been copied so well.

Great advice on exotic cables!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoVixorZTDM

That's why I buy from Ivan. I can't see him making cables in the basement. ;):no:

https://www.horrornewsnetwork.net/images/dlitbb.jpg

:D

You move production to China and you take your chances.

There is a lot of items made in China where the night shift makes the knock off.

Hence they look identical.

The thing that’s getting weird about high end is that they are avoiding and direct comparisons.

I just compared Straight Wire to Kimber and Kimber just slaughtered the Straight Wire.

Also compared Cary tubes amps to Conrad Johnson. Cary won hands down.

Kimber now sells direct so you don’t have to ruin your week walking in a dealer.

Kimber also accepts links to sights and will tell you if the product is legit.

Ivan should start making making cables, but he might put some of these companies out of business! :D

"I just compared Straight Wire to Kimber and Kimber just slaughtered the Straight Wire.
Also compared Cary tubes amps to Conrad Johnson. Cary won hands down".


That was pretty scientific. No specs... so we should just take your word for these comparisons. Useless and wrong information.

Just silly advise.

Wow, I was trying to check a length and came across this site:

I’m blown away open theft occurs like this, and sadly who really wants this shi*

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/329951...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

You can get versions of most high priced brands on Aliexpress. It's crazy. Some obviously fake, some others less so.

Welcome to the world that is China (and some other countries). Not just audio. How about pharmaceuticals, food, tires, etc. Just as bad with considerably more dire consequences.

Anyone want to buy an entire reel of Nordost Odin 2 SC??:D

There, recently, was a thread (on another site) asking about using '8TC' for a powercord. which the eBay advert was claiming was good...(the poster added a link, I almost think it was an attempt to sell the stuff?)
The images of the fakes from China were very good looking, and totally looked like real Kimber 8TC. I do not know if the Teflon insulation had the same qualities as the real Kimber 8TC. (Kimber 8TC and 12. 4TC have very hard Teflon, If you run it pressing hard with/through your hands repeatedly it will start peeling your skin apart as if burned. I know this from adding a cotton rope in mine and pulling it back down OUCH!

Some people used to sell Kimber Hero in the Kimber 'bubble' packaging at a low price on ebay, and those were fakes too. I think those got shut down by Ray Kimber. If you send in a cable to Kimber to verify real/not, and it is fake, they KEEP IT.

I am concerned enough about fake cables I no longer buy used cables at all.

In addition to considering serial numbers, there’s also the matter of being able to identify the model. For instance, if a cable or cord has been updated or upgraded, whether within the same model or to the next step up, such as from standard to digital, does that show in some way on the item, or does the manufacturer help out by providing a new certificate of authenticity. I’ve found not always.