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Esoteric K-01Xs vs EMM Labs DA2 Reference
Late last year I acquired the EMM Labs DA2 Ref Dac and while I’ve loved how it sounds I’ve missed spinning the shiny silver discs. Recently I ran across an opportunity to acquire a new K-01Xs so I decided to get it and see if it could possibly sound as good as my current Dac and give me the ability to spin my CDs again and the few SACDs that I have. Since this is a new K-01Xs this will be a thread I’ll update as it breaks in and ultimately post my decision as to which to sell and which to keep. I know I could have added the TX2 transport if I could find one and I know EMM Labs won’t be in the transport business for much longer so that kind of led me down this road. So on with the show ...
I was truly amazed at how darn heavy and well packaged the Esoteric was. FedEx guy complained all the way up the sidewalk according to my wife. I got it out of the box and on the rack without any fuss and once it was all connected it powered up with no issues. I’ve read all the fuss regarding the remote from the previous model and unfortunately this one seems to have the same shortcomings as I’ve read about. That said it was very easy to hold the mode button for 2 sec in order to cycle through the various setup options. The XLR output defaults to their ES-Link protocol so I changed that to XLR2 to match my Levinson pre and left it with no Upsampling and no filter. I have my N100H connected via WW Platinum Starlight 7 USB which bested every other USB cable I compared it to earlier this year including some very expensive options.(At least in my system) That said I started with my SACD version of Mark Knopfers Shangri-La. Right out of the box I have to say that I noticed that the K-01Xs has really great detail in the lowest octaves. Where before I was thinking my system might at times be a bit muddy that impression was immediately gone. I also noticed what seemed to be better clarity between different instruments playing. When before sounds sometimes merged now they are clearly separate in space even if by only an inch or two. I then went to one of my favorite 2xDSD albums from Diana Panton If the moon turns green because with the EMM Labs Dac the soundstage is incredibly holographic and seems to envelope the entire room with sound not only left to right but front to back of the room. With the Esoteric the left to right soundstage while a bit compressed was still mostly there but the 3D front to rear holographic effect was now gone, replaced by a bit of depth from the speakers to the front wall. Gone also was the silky smooth vocals replaced with a bit of edge to female vocals and grain in the midrange compared to what I’m used to. After 24 hours of playing non stop it’s a bit less edgy and grainy but still not near the holographic soundstage of the DA2. I also cycled through all of the upsampling options and with nothing broken in I like the original setting with no filter the best so far. Seems to provide a bit sharper focus than any of the upsampled options. Again this is with only 24 hours on a unit I really don’t expect to be able to make a real decision for another 500 or so hours. I will say that today I noticed that guitar strings seemed sharper and more detailed than what I’m used to as did brass instruments. It should be really interesting to see how the 2 units compare once the K-01Xs is fully broken in. I’ll provide the next update as I notice real change with the break in process. George |
Interesting topic
Will keep revisiting this. Good job George! |
George.......I, too, will be following your K-01Xs adventure. I logged 350 hours on my Esoteric K-01X before writing my Esoteric K-01X Review. Looking forward to reading more of your impressions as your Esoteric K-01Xs logs several hundred hours of break-in. Your patience and persistence will be rewarded.
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I'm not clear exactly how your comparison works. You're comparing a single box CDP with one of the most well build transports ever made to a DA2 being fed by an Aurender? Plus, how are you comparing SACDs between the two setups?
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Ditto with Dan
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The Esoteric is starting to open up a little this morning I think only hinting at it’s true potential. George |
George,
As an Esoteric K-03X owner, I have played around quite a bit with Esoteric's filter and up-sampling settings (which have been carried forward through several product generations). As you may know, an unfortunately a long break-in period is required for each filter/up conversion setting. I found that the default settings of no filter, no up conversion resulted in very detailed but to my ears somewhat etched sound. Ultimately I settled on 2Fs up conversion and the SDLY1 filter. YMMV. Probably the best discussion of the various settings that I've seen can be found in this review: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...-k-03-tas-213/ Looking forward to your further commentary. |
I'm always gonna be a sdly2 guy. I listen to streaming over USB 99% of the time, but I've also found that the transport is the very best quality I can wring out of my k01x (non s).
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Thanks for the link. I’m playing with filters a little today on my 03X. Also looking forward to more of George’s impressions!
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Keep in mind on the new ‘s’ version the filter appears to be either on or off ... no other choices. No idea what filter Esoteric chose. I will make sure I break in both filter modes so I can decide what I like best post break in.
Still way too early to draw many conclusions other than Redbook cd’s have never sounded this darn good. Playing a cd through the transport seems significantly better than ripped and played from the Aurender but since I only have the N100H that could be a function of the internal connection being better than usb? Just a guess on my part. Redbook evidently was better than I thought! :D George |
Yeah Redbook is insanely good even on the non-s. I forgot, I had heard about the s having no filter type choices like the k1.
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George,
I see. Actually they've eliminated all FIR and SDLY filter settings previously available for PCM (incl CD). The DSD filter remains for DSD (incl SACD) as before. (I've always left this one 'off' for whatever that's worth). |
Quick update as I now have right at 300 hours on the unit ... I know I know be patient ... :-) ... One thing I can already say with certainty is that it retrieves more detail from Redbook CD's than I've ever heard off of a rip. Some of the early digital recordings that just seem to sound kind of edgy and flat on other players just sound much more right on the Esoteric. Kinda reminds me a little of my old CAL Aria MKIII with Redbook in that it sounded very full and had a large holographic soundstage and even though many of the CD's I bought back then ended up sounding terrible on much more modern cd players they always sounds pretty darn good on the Aria ... seems a little bit like I'm back to the future here. Now ... I'm not saying it makes terrible recordings great because it most certainly does not as its brutally revealing so bad recordings beware. Just saying that maybe a bit of the sound stage size and warmth of the Aria might be aluded to here. :-)
On DSD over USB its still too close to call between the K-01Xs and the EMM Labs DA-2. That is clearly where the DA-2 excels and honestly I'll be surprised if the K-01Xs can equal it but we will see. Ok ... so maybe it wasn't quite a quick update ... :D George |
I'd like to know how close K-01Xs is to K1.
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Sounds like the Emm still edges it out...?
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George |
[QUOTE=brodricj;934380]I'd like to know how close K-01Xs is to K1
K1 is definitely better. I just ran across a crazy good deal on this particular unit and this gets me spinning discs again. Was using my Oppo as a transport and wasn’t thrilled with the sound. This even when used as a transport only is amazing with my DA-2. Just hoping that it’s close enough to then DA-2 as a USB dac so I can sell the DA2. Right now though the DA2 is quite a bit better especially on DSD. Down the road I’ll do one of the big stacks but considering last year I bought Levinson No52 Ref, No 536 monos, Wilson Sasha 2s, VPI Avenger and MIT Oracle loom I’m gonna need to wait a second on the digital “stack” :D George |
OK, that leads to the next obvious question. How close is K1 when used as a Transport compared to P1? I got a good deal on P1, same price as K1. Maybe P1 will be replaced with new model soon?
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How the K1 would compare to the P1 I think would depend on your Dac. The Esoteric separates support a different connection method (Es-Link)which seems to add to their substantial performance advantage when paired together. The K1 and K-01xs don’t support that protocol so if you had the D-02x or Grandioso separates I would think the P1 would be the obvious winner. If connecting to some other brand which doesn’t support their proprietary connection you would would lose SACD playback but the difference in Redbook performance would probably be closer at that point I’m guessing. As far as new models go ... who knows? Someone does ... not me as I always guess wrong. |
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So ... been playing the K-01Xs non stop now for about a month about half and half on original sampling rates vs 16X Upsampling. On DSD I like it better without the filter. On PCM you have no choice. So ... for starters there is no doubt this is a world class cd player although I almost feel bad about calling it "just" a cd player because it is also a really incredible dac. I think probably better than a big percentage of the seperate dacs out there. That said ... this thread is about how it stacks up against one of the better dacs out there today ... the EMM Labs DA2 Reference. I'll start by saying that had I not ever heard both of them I could have been completely happy with either of them.
They actually have quite a bit in common in their sound in some areas ... high frequency extension and detail. I could not tell any difference at all in how they portrayed cymbals in either timbre or naturalness. They were both very good here on all formats. Female singers like Diana Panton singing destination moon sounded very similar while male vocalists did at times sound a bit different ... the EMM Labs seemed to carry a bit more weight in the bottom end of the vocal range so tracks like Mark Knoplers 5:15 AM sounded a little more solid. Which is more correct .... I certainly can't say! In this case though I can say I liked the sound of the EMM Labs better. There are a couple of areas where the two units differed quite a bit ... the first is the bottom end. The bass extension and detail on the Esoteric is very extended and very very detailed. No muddiness here at all. The EMM Labs has a tiny bit of bloat in the lowest octaves by comparison. Had I not had both units here I might not have noticed so its not all that objectionable but I do have both units here and having heard them both score the win here solidly for the Esoteric. The next area of difference I noticed was in the overall portrayal of the musical event and I'm going to be quoting someone here I just don't remember who ... the Esoteric allows you to hear every single detail in the music and all of the individual components ... The EMM Labs shines on the musical event as a whole. Which you'll prefer will be a matter of preference and while the difference here isn't gigantic it is noticeable. Here I'm completely torn because on some recordings I like the detail of the Esoteric especially on orchestra's ... you really get the sense of how many different instruments are actually playing. On vocalists with a guitar or small jazz groups I tend to like the smooth presentation of the EMM Labs. Here I have to declare it a tie based on liking all different kinds of music. The last area that was really noticeable was that of imaging and soundstage size. The Esoteric cut images out of granite with laser precision. The EMM Labs etched them out of a bit softer stone but still presented them with good separation if not quite the edge definition of the Esoteric. When it came to sound stage I didn't notice much difference left to right ... both units threw images way outside the speakers and when appropriate outside the room as well. Front to back though was a bit different and this in my opinion is where the EMM Labs shines the brightest in that it presents the most 3D holographic sound stage of any dac I've ever heard. Listen to Beck's Heart is a drum and while the sound stage on the Esoteric is huge with great presence ... the EMM Labs makes you feel like you are totally immersed in the sound ... on this track it really fills every corner of the room ... which was the recording engineer going for is anyone's guess but in this case I liked the sound of the EMM Labs better. So as you can tell I've struggled in making a decision. On the one hand I love the detail, solid imaging, and bottom end detail in the Esoteric. On the other hand I love the overall smoother presentation, richer vocals and absolutely holographic sound stage of the EMM Labs. All that said I really want to stress that these differences I'm noting while present are not very big at all but while they are small still created a preference for me and that was for the EMM Labs DA2 Ref. I found that when I listened to the Esoteric I marveled at the detail and when I listened to the EMM Labs I marveled at the music and the artist more often than not. So ... I still needed a good disc spinner and I can't think of a better transport than the one in the K-01XS which means that I'll end up keeping both units. I may swap over to the Esoteric in a few more months to see if a few more months of playing has changed my mind but for now I'll just enjoy the combo playing cd's and the EMM Labs on everything else. I'd give them both a strong thumbs up though! George |
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Very informative comparison.
Thanks and enjoy the music! |
George, magnificent and very valuable comparison!
Thank you Sir! :thumbsup::thumbsup: |
Excellent review George!
You are quoting Mike and Neli from audiofederation when they compared the Emm XDS1 and the Esoteric K-01 from 2011! |
Thanks George, you're helping me to narrow the field.
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Outstanding review, George! As a K-03X owner, I'd make one suggestion r.e. upsampling rates. Although my player doesn't have a 16x option (only goes to 8x), I found the intermediate settings, 2x and 4x, to be better overall, finally settling on 4x. I felt like the no upsampling setting was a bit on the bright side for some music, while 8x seemed to significantly diminish detail. Full break-in for each setting is l-o-n-g, and obviously YMMV, but I think worthwhile trying.
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If you're ever on Dallas on the weekend and want to stop by let me know as you're always welcome! George |
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George |
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Thanks George I may take you up on that. I would really like to hear your system sometime. |
Just a quick update here as I'm still trying to ensure the unit is fully broken in across all upsampling rates .... Had some friends over recently and everyone still agreed that the EMM Labs was still in the lead. Then, last week I finally took the leap and replaced all my stock or fairly cheap AQ NRG4 power cords with Transparent Reference Cords and added the Reference Isolator being fed by an XL Powercord. Obviously I wasn't much on the power cord bandwagon before but I get it now ... one of the biggest changes I've ever made to the system! That said ... with all new power cords in place I flipped over to the K-01XS and noticed that the gap between the EMM Labs DA-2 Ref and the K-01XS has been substantially narrowed. Maybe even to the point of it being really hard to tell. Will make sure I finish getting enough hours across all upsampling rates before I do another shoot out but the Esoteric did seem to benefit substantially more from a better PC than did the EMM Labs. More to come ...
George |
Congrats George!!
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George |
Final Update ... well things here have taken a bit of a turn...
As I got my power and isolation platform in place the k-01xs really took on a new personality. I also realized that I hadn't used the same interconnects with it that I had the EMM Labs so I fixed that also. Now I immediately noticed that the depth and width of the sound stage was every bit as good as the EMM Labs which is really saying something. The EMM Labs may have still had a bit of an edge on low level detail and placement of images but the Esoteric in my system now was more dynamic and the images were more solid. Both units sounds fairly neutral until you listen to them back to back then you realize that there is in fact a tad bit more warmth to the Esoteric than the EMM Labs. Some will like one better than the other as with certain music each sound has its merits. The EMM Labs still maybe had a taller sound stage but they are close. The Esoteric also is stronger in the bass department. Some of my friends I think liked the bass from the EMM Labs better saying it was more detailed but I thought the bass extension had plenty of detail with the Esoteric and I got hooked on the Authority and weight of the Esoteric. So ... maybe surprisingly to some, I got to where every time I went back to the EMM Labs I wasn't tapping my feet as much and getting as lost in the music as I was with the Esoteric. One thing is for sure... they are both great units but to me this underscores the incredible value the K=01XS brings to the table when it can even complete with a DAC of this calibre and price range. So...the EMM Labs has found a new home and I'm a happy Esoteric listener now. There is a footnote here ... I called Ivan to discuss options and you can guess what happened next ... I now have a D-02X on the way after the first of the year which we believe will take the sound to the next level. Once that gets settled in I'll probably swap out the K-01XS as a transport for the P-02X to fully unlock the potential of my CD and small but growing SACD collection. So .. that's a wrap folks and hope all of you have a wonder Merry Christmas and an awesome New Year! George |
Thank you for your review.
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Nice review George - keen to year your review of the D-02X v K-01Xs when the new piece lands!
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Well done, George. I like that the review was conducted over a period of 10 days or so plus you had extra ears to assist. Glad to hear the Esoteric held it’s own against more expensive competition.
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George |
Wow George!! Congrats on all the changes and improvements.
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George... no worries about feeling anything but flabbergasted.
http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esot...x/img/main.jpg This Combo is at the insane level of Performance. :ok: |
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