I received an update today that Wyred 4 Sound worked on this issue yesterday with some progress but no definitive cause and resolution.

Hi all,

We wanted to give everyone an update on our progress toward resolving some recently reported issues related to DSD playback with the 9038PRO chip. First, we sincerely appreciate the patience of those affected during the past week. It has been all hands on deck at Wyred, essentially dropping everything to address this.

To recap and summarize, this issue can manifest itself as scratchy, poppy, hissing or other unintended sonic artifacts while playing DSD files specifically. Some have reported this only with DSD 256 playback, but others have reported no problems whatsoever. This inconsistency certainly made things more difficult to troubleshoot, however, we were able to replicate things on our end and thus address them.

The first issue we found was heat-related. Due to their clock and processing requirements, DSD files can generate much more heat on the chip than PCM files. During some DSD playback, we found that excessive heat could be directly related to some sonic anomalies. We were told that the chip was pin-compatible which it is, however, the 9038 has a thermal pad where the 9018 does not. Despite the datasheet noting that the exposed thermal pad can be left floating, we found that with higher sample rate playback, it is necessary to be connected for proper cooling. When we cooled the chip down, these issues went away. Our solution is to add a custom-made heatsink for the chip so we can avoid this altogether, since the original design with the 9018 didn’t have the thermal pad designed into the PCB. This has proved to work extremely well.

The second issue we found was related to erroneously defaulting bits within a register which were undisclosed in the datasheet. This was causing another set of sonic irregularities. When we were able to gather the correct information and reprogram the register, the issues went away.

One other thing we’d like to point out is that during testing using the latest Roon 1.3, we’ve found that it seems to be having its own playback issues, either with a ’transport load’ error or some strange sonic artifacts during playing and pausing a DSD track. Please be aware that this is unrelated to the ESS issues and we are confident the guys at Roon will sort things out shortly.

After finding and addressing these areas mentioned above, playback has been clean. For those that have an upgraded DAC, please be on the lookout for our direct email to resolve any issues you may be having. Those with DACs currently in for upgrade, thank you for patiently waiting; you can expect shipping next week. It’s important to note that if you are not experiencing issues, we do not feel you need to worry about anything. There are only a handful of customers who have reported issues. Others have reported having none. If you are in the latter camp, please continue enjoying your DAC.

Lastly, we’d like to add that we’re thankful for being such a small and customer-centric company that and quickly adapt and correct on such short notice. We truly appreciate all of your support. We still feel that the new 2v2 DACs are among the finest available on the market today, and despite these small, very specific DSD playback anomalies, the new 2v2se with the 9038PRO chip is groundbreaking in what it has achieved.

We can always be contacted directly at support@wyred4sound.com.

Thanks,
Tony and EJ

Thanks for the update, Tony and EJ. Glad to see you guys are on it.

Follow up: To those of you who sent their DACs to us for upgrade, we sent a recent update email to you. We are still planning on beginning to ship DACs back this week. Depending on what we can get to, some will ship this week and any remaining into next week. When your DAC ships, you will receive an email from us with tracking information. We're working as quickly as we can; your continued patience is sincerely appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony

DSD noises are OUT OF HERE!
 

I recently was asked to to ship my upgraded DAC back to Wyred 4 Sound to fix the odd noise issues when playing DSD files. I got the DAC back and I am happy to report that the DSD noise issues are completely gone! This is good news for me since I have a large collection of DSD based files. :music:

I tried to up-sample CD resolution files to DSD256 with no issues. I played every bitrate I had: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz, 352kHz, DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256. Again, I had no problems whatsoever. The Wyred 4 Sound team fixed all of the problems. Kudos to them AND they fixed a broken RCA output jack for free.

I have been listening to the DAC-2v2SE even though it only has around 120 hours on the new ESS 9038PRO chip. Here is a summary of the improvements I hear as compared to the DAC-2 DSDse before the upgrade:

• instruments are better articulated; there are nuances revealed that were not easily discernible before or very hard to hear
• the sound stage seems to be a bit wider
• sounds in general are fuller than they were before
• sound stage has more layers than before making my Martin Logan SL3s disappear which is a hard thing to do especially in my 'room'
• bass is tighter

I haven't had a chance to play with all of the filters yet. My last listening session had the IIR set to 50K and Filters set to Apodizing fast rolloff, linear phase. Volume is set to FIXED as I am using a pre-amp and USB input MAX is set to 64 so I have more leeway with the pre-amp's volume control. Jitter is still set to the default of '***'.

This is very nice upgrade and well worth it IMHO. Of course, I no longer have my DAC-2 DSDse with the 9018 chip to compare. However, I do have an OPPO BDP-105 with the same chip. The OPPO had a similar sound to the DAC-2 DSDse. Sometime soon I will compare the upgraded DAC to the OPPO.

Now, I have to say that I am not using my under powered laptop to play music as I was before I shipped the DAC a second time to Wyred 4 Sound. I am setting up a new laptop to replace my wife's laptop. It is a Windows 10, I7 based laptop. I will have to use the older laptop to see if any of the sound stage changes are due to the new laptop.

Really appreciate your thoughts, @birdland! We're glad that the previous issues you experienced are gone for you as well. We also think that the improvements to the upgraded DAC are readily apparent compared to the previous version. Let us know your thoughts after you get more time on the new chip. We feel things will just get better with burn in.

So the DAC now has over 200 hours on it and I don't think I can add more to what I said before except maybe the DAC is a bit more organic than it was many hours ago.

A couple of weeks ago, I found frequency graphs of the various filters for the 9028/9038 chips. I thought I saved the URL but I cannot find it and I cannot seem to find the link in a search engine. :(

It would be really nice to see the various curves.

The frequency chart doesn't really show much change between 9026PRO and the 9028-9038. Where the differences occur is in S/N and Dynamic Range. I have the Dac1V2 and I am blown away! I've been in the business as CEDIA installer and consumer. Never,ever have I heard the difference in sound quality that I experienced with this DAC. I'm sure their are further benefits as you go up to the top. But for me and my ears this is the waaay biggest improvement in my system I ever made and that includes getting my Aerial 7Ts.

Actually, I wasn't talking about S/N or Dynamic Range. I was talking about how the frequency is rolled off as you reach 20kHz. The various filters start rolling off the high frequencies either later or earlier. Also, at least one has less pre-ringing.

I've experimented with different settings on this DAC. I've found you can subtly change the sound depending on the filter you select on the menu available. My best results were with W4S default setting. Yes. There is a difference and only you can decide what sounds the best to your ears. All DACs run the full frequency spectrum. It's the bells and whistles that accompany them that make the difference. Choosing where you want to run the setting is personal choice. I have run the new OPPO DAC as well with the 9038 Pro and didn't think it's performance was near as good as the DAC1V2. Even with a supposedly "better chip". Again, we all hear differently. Good luck!

:yourock: Thanks for your posts regarding comparisons of our DAC to others, even products using the 'better' chip. This is what we try to convey as best we can, that off-the-shelf parts do account for certain things, but it's the design and engineering of the overall product that can make a profound difference for the end result!

Paul - with respect to frequency response, we are talking about the same thing just in different ways.

It is very interesting that you found the W4S DAC-1V2 better than the OPPO Sonica DAC. I found my DAC-2 DSDse, which was upgraded to the DAC-2v2SE, to be slightly better than the OPPO BDP-105.

I now have close to 100 hours on the W4S DAC1V2. The sound has improved even more. No. I am not associated with W4S in any way shape or form. Previous clients and audio friends cannot believe what they are hearing. I had West Side Story being performed in my audio room. Yes. That realistic with stage depth,width,delineation of voices so real people called it spooky! I am that impressed and have never ever heard such analog digital. Thank you Randy for turning me on to W4S and the Remedy as well. It will be the source that determines your SQ with this DAC1v2. My search for audio nirvana is now quenched.

Dam... now you guys are making me think I need a new W4S DAC... The Benchmark is nice, but sounds like the W4S is even more fantastic.

I actually visited EJ and Tony today to pick up a cable for my Class A amp... EJ was saying I had to try the new DAC.... dammit you guys.... my wife is gonna kill me... lucky that she likes EJ :)....

Randy - the new W4S DACs are really good. You should really consider trying one out.

Randy, I heard the Benchmark as well. HGC3 with 9028PRO. Just had to compare. It's a good unit. Where I believe you'll notice the differences is in the ability of the new W4S V2 Dac to portray a musically superior reproduction of what data you're listening too. Music is more musical,dynamic,analog. Yes analog. No digital signatures. Easy to listen and no listener fatigue ever. Throw in more detail,information retrieval,expanded sound stage front to back and side to side. Well. You get the point. I've been in this business for almost 30 years. I had gotten so jaded to the claims of newer and better that they didn't ring true for me anymore so I rebuilt OEM units with upgraded components. Reason EMOTIVA is equipment I use and find it satisfactory. That being said,between the release of a new chip by ESS that was really a significant upgrade over the previous got me curious. Then having spoken to you my appetite got overwhelming. Plus your suggestion of using the Remedy was well received. THANK YOU Randy! If it weren't for you I'd still be thinking of upgrading speakers, amps,pre, etc. Nope. No more. I believe I've reached my Nirvana with this new DAC. It's that Great! I believe how you implement digital technology is just as important as how great the parts are suppose to be. So many high end Dacs use the same chip but sound different. Parts quality is part of the equation as well as implementation of the circuitry that was designed. Here I have to give the highest kudo's to W4S.
Randy. Give it a try. You'll never know what you missed out on.
Thanks again for all your input.

Thank you Paul... The Benchmark with the 9028 Pro chip was definitely significantly better than the previous model with the 9018. I had them side by side for a little while.

I probably will eventually try out the new W4S with the 9038 Pro. I just got to get my wife to a point where another upgrade will not drive her over the top :).... There have been a few changes in the year and a half since jumping back into this crazy hobby :)....

If I get the W4S I would plan on keeping the Benchmark also. It also serves as my headphone amplifier and would continue as such. I doubt I could find a replacement headphone amplifier as good as this in a similar budget. Being a backup pre-amplifier is also a very good added benefit!

Paul - are you sure you don't work for Wyred 4 Sound? :scratch2:

Just joking!!!!

We can verify that Paul does not work for us. But we do appreciate his feedback! :ok:

Thanks Paul

-Tony

You're very welcome [emoji4]

Tony and Paul - I was joking!

The new DACs are great products. They are a considerable upgrade from the previous DACs AND Wyred 4 Sound have great customer service. Something that is very rare these days IMO. And I also do not work for Wyred 4 Sound. :D

Pretty attractive idea :thumbsup:

I would love to send my Mcintosh MCD500 in to wyred4sound and have them upgrade the saber dac, wishful thinking :D

Hi Walter, of course :thumbsup: Lol! We appreciate that.

Regards,
Tony

Ok, so giving the W4S DAC2v2SE a try... It has been playing in the background all evening... sitting down to play a little... had to set it at fixed volume and turn the remote off on the DAC so that it and the STP-SE would not fight over it.

A quick listen, it really seems pretty darn good. Still has many hours of break in to go.

Welcome to the club Randy! :)

Thank you. Love my Wyred equipment... still getting used to it and figuring it out, but like what I am hearing so far!

After using the new W4S DAC for a few days it is starting to settle in a little. I know it still has a ways to go to totally be broken in.

It is more "analog" sounding then any DAC I have previously used in my system. The Benchmark DAC3 equipped with the ESS 9028 Pro sounds wonderful, but the DAC-2v2SE is a new level. Equipped with the ESS 9038 Pro is nice, but it does not stop there. There is no attention to detail that was left unaddressed, right down to the fuse being used.

So far I am impressed with the unit. I have not 100% decided that it will be holding a permanent position in my system yet, but I am heavily leaning that way!

Glad to hear that you're so pleased with it, and not unexpected. While you stated that you're not 100% decided on keeping it yet, I see that you've already updated your signature details to include it so that's a pretty good sign as to your desination! :D

Well, yea, I suppose.... although I have been known to change sigs whenever I am trying something in my system :).... I do like the unit so far though...

Still working out the best settings and configuration for my taste. The DAC does have more "features" than any of the others I have tried.

Well I am starting to think this is the best DAC I have ever heard. The most "analog" sounding digital ever... and with DSD128 and DSD256... holy cow... Lyn Stanley, Cat Stevens, Claire Barlow, and others at 128... Fiona Joy at 256... I will put this against any turntable/vinyl combination you come up with... simply WOW...

DACs I have used since jumping back into this crazy hobby 1.5 years ago as a comparison...

McIntosh MX-A70, BurrBrown, PCM only
Teac UD-501, BurrBrown, w/DSD up to 128
Ayres Pono, ESS 9018 mobile, DSD up to 128*
Denon, BurrBrown, DSD up to 128
Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1LE, ESS 9018, DSD up to 256
Marantz SA8005, Cyrus Logic, DSD up to 128*
NuPrime DAC-10H, ESS 9018, DSD up to 256
Benchmark DAC2 HGC, ESS 9018, DSD 64
Benchmark DAC3 HGC, ESS 9028 Pro, DSD 64*
Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2v2SE, ESS 9038 Pro, DSD up to 256*

* Currently own...

This new Wyred is simply put.... Amazing!

Hi Randy - I know you posted this awhile ago but I wanted to say that I'm not as enthusiastic about the sound as you are. IT IS an upgrade as compared to my original DAC-2 DSDse but I would never say that it is better than a good analog setup.

What are you driving your DAC with if I may ask? Maybe, my high powered laptop is the problem here. I've even got a W4S Recovery in there powered by the Uptone Audio LPS-1.

OR maybe there is still something off with my DAC-2V2SE?!?!?!

Randy gets carried away sometimes... [emoji1]

Randy, try going to RMAF this year. You'll hear analog setups that will mesmerize you. And digital. And you suddenly won't care what chip is in the box.

Recovery with DAC-2v2SE ?
 

Randy, are you (or anyone else) using the Recovery with the DAC-2v2SE ?

If so, does the Recovery still make a noticeable improvement ?

TIA

I use the Recovery with my Dac1V2 and find the sound to be as analog as analog can be. I'm a CEDIA installer and have many different brands to choose from. Out of all I've listened too I find the W4S to be as close to non digital as they come. Of course you can find other Dac's that offer your ears a more analog sound. Associated equipment,room acoustics and other variables are at play. We all hear differently. Good luck with your search for audio nirvana. I found mine.

Recovery + DAC 2V2 SE
 

Hi. The Recovery does alter the sound in my system - seemingly more so since the upgrade.

The system is: Pure Music 3 - Recovery - DAC 2V2 SE - Wyred ST1000 - Usher Be718s (GR crossovers - Be tweeters) + Usher stands + REL Storm III; Wireworld cables.

Interestingly, with the 'Series 1' DAC 2 DSD SE, I was doubtful that the Recovery did much at all. If anything, when first installed I was concerned that the Recovery made things a little "tighter" in a bad way - maybe a little added detail at the expense of naturalness. But, having experienced break-in previously, I left things alone and the sound returned to its previous relaxed involving tone. Swapping it in and out later made me think it was not doing much, but maybe there was a slight gain in clarity.

The upgraded DAC returned a week ago. Starved of music for three weeks (it was shipped to and from Australia), I've been listening lots. And have been motivated to slip the Recovery in and out of the chain. Without the Recovery, the system is still clearly and markedly improved by the upgraded DAC. Wow - good job Wyred. With the Recovery in place, I hear a better defined bass, with more punch and colour. Imaging is more precise. Perhaps the highs are a little less lush - but I don't trust my own judgement here - really, either with or without the Recovery, the highs are fabulous.

Just to keep these differences in perspective. I would say the upgrade from DAC2 DSD SE to DAC 2V2 SE is a "plus 10", in some arbitrary unit; while the adding the Recovery to the chain is a "plus 1" or a "plus 2". Still "plus 2" is not nothing - and I'm leaving it in for now.

I'm going to let the DAC fully burn in for a few weeks, and then do the Recovery in/out listening tests again.

Hope this is helpful.
Cheers, Rob

Rob.......Welcome to Audio Aficionado. :wave:

Excellent first post. The Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 has been a benchmark for performance versus value across many years. It is impressive that W4S continues to update and improve the performance while still managing to keep it at a reasonable price point that exceeds much of its competition. I enjoyed reading your impressions.

RBez... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Thank you for your kind words Rob. We strive to make upgrades true improvements and real values. It is always nice to hear when a customer is enjoying their upgrade!