ARC Ref 160S
 

I received my new amplifier yesterday. It replaces a vt80se. My initial impressions are better bass and a more immersive soundstage. I am using a Ref 6 and SashaDaw speakers. I like the look and the meters are a nice touch. No more worries about adjusting bias. It sounds good out of the box and should only improve with time.

Congrats! I'm sure it will be great. If anyone compares this against a gs150, I would like to hear about it. I really doubt it would be worth it for me to go from the gs150 to the ref160s, but I'm curious.

Dan: Congrats! Can't wait to hear your system!!

Steve

We should organize a docdan listening session

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Ok with me. My wife has choir practice on Monday and Tuesday nights. She also has her book club the last Wednesday of the month.

Congrats!! I wish I could hear one compared to my GS150

Took delivery of 160S on Friday. Paired w/ LS28 in second system. Too soon for serious evaluation of performance, but I am disappointed the fan is so intrusive even at low setting at 10 feet. Not sure yet what I think about the meters. Awaiting delivery of CD6SE to complete stack. Listening to old CD player in meantime. Will post pictures and more impressions.

Unfortunately I think the fan bit is theme with ARC. I’ve had the conversation with the factory on my 250s. They claim they cannot hear them from their listening position. But I can from mine. They must have a lot of background noise in there test room. There are more premium /quieter fans that move the same volume of air on the market. Wish they’d spend $10 more an amp to address this.

Exactly. I just had a conversation with Dave Gordon about this, and his only suggestion was that i make lots of room above the amp and either remove the cover or put fans on low, and/or put fans in my cabinet instead. They don't think you can hear the fans but yes, you can.

Sounds like they're in denial.

ARC Ref 160S
 

Too bad high end designers still rely on noisy fans to cool their gear.

Moved the 75SE to the secondary system and the 160S is now driving the Sasha 1s. Still not a lot of hours on the 160S. Certainly more heft and bass control than the 75SE, but possibly not as much detail or texture to various instruments that always impressed me about the 75SE. Perhaps in time. All my ARC gear has taken at least a couple hundred hours to “bloom”. Thinking about changing the Sasha 1s for DAWs but that’s another story.....

Congratulations! I'm sure it's a great system. If you decide to go with the daw, it will be a really great upgrade. Another choice would be to get a certified alexia 1. I've owned the Sasha 1, 2, and alexia 1. Each one was a big upgrade. I've heard the daw many times and it is really close to the alexia, with just a bit less bass extension in my opinion. Some think the daw is actually more accurate than the alexia 1. All I know is, I love my alexias and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Alexia 1 and ARC 160S was not a good match for WCSS on the Audiogon Thread "My long list of Amplifiers". This took place within the last month. YMMV He actually preferred the GS150 and remarked they were "sweeter".

To each his own, but I find that conclusion hard to believe. The alexia is easy to drive, so that's not a consideration. both amps use the exact same tube complement. In fact I believe that the two amps are very similar.

I’ve been on Agon since 2002 and the forums are, politely, a very mixed bag. Typically far more chaff than kernels of information. That amp thread has been going on since 2016 and is populated by dealers, daydreamers, and very short term “owners”.

Yes! I know... I just perused it. From what I can tell, the op said the ref160 monos were not as good as the stereo. That's... Strange. Very strange, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Another hot take was that someone said the Sasha 1 was superior to the Sasha 2, daw, and alexia. That's ludicrous! I've actually owned them (except for the Daw) and I can definitely say that is false.

I've also been spending some time on the Facebook groups, and I can definitely say there are a lot of nuts out there. AA is far more "refined"... Less trolls!

Well what he has on his side is his experience with all 3 GS, 160Mono, Stereo. What he has going against him is different speakers on each as well as speaker cables etc. He isn't speculating. He has no motive to lie and I know him personally so can vouch for his authenticity and honesty. I believe what he says HE hears which may not be what you or I would hear. He used the 160M with NEOLITH Speakers and not the Alexia...that's what he used the 160S on and quickly ditched it. According to him multiple ARC dealers came to the same conclusion...the Stereo version was Tweaked somehow and is an improvement..but that's all hearsay obviously

Manufacturers who know what they are doing don’t invert the price and quality relationship. Also see the Stereophile review of the 160S this month where Dave Gordon says the 160S is close to but not better than 160Ms.

Yes, I don't understand why anyone would think the stereo version of the same amp would be better than the mono, but I haven't personally compared either. I love my gs150, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

According to some people I know they have said the same thing about other brands (Hegel..Don't remember the model and Luxman M900) where they preferred the stereo version over the mono version.

As to what Dave Gordon said...what else would you expect him to say?? Shaking my head over that comment. I would trust a reviewer before I would listen to somebody with the most skin in the game...and that's somebody who works for the manufacturer.

My point is that it’s not in ARC’s interest to make and sell a unit for $20k that is better than a current model they sell for $30k. If they did that, they would lose their upgrade from stereo to separates business. So I believe David Gordon is the right authority because it’s his/ARCs decision how they design and price their components. It would be like if someone told you that got more coffee in a Starbucks Venti than a Grande. I would believe Starbucks when they say Grande costs more and is bigger and that is an intentional plan. There is no logic I can fathom where ARC intentionally or accidentally inverts this. I can believe some random dude who heard each with different speakers may have thought the Stereo was better but the manufacturer has compared under identical circumstances and has designed the pieces and set their prices.

Dave is by default somewhat biased because it's his job, but judging by the dealings I've had with him, he's about as honest and upstanding anyone could be in his position. He is a true class act.

Dave was wonderful to deal with the 1 time I got a chance to speak to him for about 20 minutes or so on the phone. I couldn't have asked for more patience in dealing with my questions regarding their old Multi Channel gear. So my comment was directed at anybody in his position...not personally about him even thou that's how it could have been construed I suppose.

Pulled the trigger on the DAWs. Dealer gave me good trade in on the Sasha Is. Going to choose color tomorrow. I expect the 160S will be sufficient.

Congratulations! You will be happy. The 160s is more than adequate to make them sing!

That's going to be a great match, the 160S will make those sing, congrats on the system.

- Buck

Where can I read more about these comparisons? I would like to read it. Thanks :)

Purple991... Welcome to AA! :wave:

FWIW the 160S and 5SE did not deliver the impressive results I heard in the local salon, so I pulled the trigger (again) on a 6SE and the result has been far beyond my expectations. Utterly different soundstage depth, resolution, presence. There is clearly a synergy between the 160S and 6SE. One can only derive so much from passive research in this hobby, and there is no substitute for listening to prospective components in your own system.

Thank you. :)

With all due respect:

Different speakers, different associated equipment. Anecdotal at best. Misleading at worst.

Actually even with the best of intentions all he is doing is speculating.

What is heard is not relevant when the test is not just flawed but a complete cluster. Does one really think that the load that the ML Neolith provides to an amplifier is remotely similar to the load of an Alexia?

Multiple ARC dealers? Really? I doubt it perhaps because I talk with many of them on a regular basis.

This is the most important part of the post "..but that's all hearsay obviously"

Obviously indeed.

Naive doesn't begin to describe this.

Dave Gordon has been a competitor, a colleague, an industry voice for four decades. You do not have to agree with him but his integrity is unassailable. Always the diplomat, he will never disparage, always offering the most positive outlook of his and his competitors' products. If Dave says the REF160M is better than the REF160S, it is because he believes that, not because he works for ARC

That one would trust a reviewer more than Dave Gordon says far more about that person and the depth of their experience than it does Dave.

ymmv


:dunno:

:thumbsup: Dave is such a great guy and will always, always tell you what he really believes. Of course he works for ARC and strongly believes in all their products, but he keeps it real.

Dave has provided me with very reliable and accurate information about differences between ARC products on more than one occasion. When Dave says it--book it.

Curious which setting owners are generally using with the 160s? Triode or ultra linear?
I realize it may be a bit speaker dependent but I find even with Cornwall IV’s I prefer the ultralinear setting. The triode is a bit more saturated, the ultralinear a bit more precise. Both sound great. Like having 2 excellent amps!

I have the monos, but I really don't care for the triode mode. Dynamics are just not there, when driving Wilson's. Ultralinear has dynamics all day long.

I have the Ref160s and always run in triode mode. I was shocked first at how little difference there is between the two… but the difference there is, I like the very slightly greater musicality.

Agree, you summed up my experience as well.