Mullard or Telefunken
 

I am getting ready to replace the 12AX7 and 12AT7 tubes in my McIntosh MC2000 amp. I am big on midrange, with tight bass. Always just used modern tubes but am going to bite the bullet and get some NOS replacements.

Always thought I wanted to go with NOS Telefunken's. Now am hearing that NOC Mullards are the way to go.

Always heard Tele's had the "midrange magic". Now hearing Tele's are analytical and Mullards have the "magic".

Before I drop some coin, anyone have any experiences comparing the two?

McInosh.......Successful tube rolling and tube selection are dependent on many factors that will be different from individual to individual and amplifier to amplifier. Any give tube will not sound identical in all circuits, nor will its sound be universal from one person's ear to the next person's ear. Believing you are getting legitimate advice from other listeners, tube rollers, and tube sellers is not much more than a roll of the dice. Opinions are plentiful, facts are dependent on multiple variables that can only be substantiated by each user in their particular application.

My suggestion is to purchase both manufacturer's tubes and find out for yourself in your own amplifier what sounds best to you. I have tried any number of tubes from different manufacturers, both new reissue and NOS, both preamplifier tubes and power tubes. I have tried NOS Telefunken, Mullard military, Genelex, Philips, Tung-Sol, Siemens, and others. I don't need to tell you about the cost, but I had no problem selling those I decided not to keep. I have also tried many new reissued tubes from Gold Lion (New Sensor), Mullard, Tung-Sol, Electro-Harmonics, and Penta. Each tube type had a specific sonic signature. Some were similar to others, some were brighter, some were more dynamic, and others were warm in the midrange or presented a soft top end. My experience of rolling tubes in various McIntosh components from the C1000C/T, C2200, C2300 preamplifiers to several MC275's and a pair of MC2301's power amplifiers has been educational and great fun.

Can I tell you which NOS or new tubes you will like in your gear? No, and I doubt anyone else can either. If you want to believe that someone's opinion on the sound of a particular tube is valid, then go for it. For me, this approach would generate more questions than answers. Tube rolling is one of those things you just have to jump into and discover the performance differences in your gear for yourself.

I like the Mullard's.

I use both! :D

I understand that it's like acoustic guitar strings, everyone hears something different depending on the guitar. But each type does have a general voice. Bright, dull etc...

I am just looking for general thoughts from folks who may have tried both in their amps and what their thoughts were with their system.

But I may just buy both and see what I like best and then sell the others.

McInosh.......Of the two tubes versions you are speaking, the NOS Telefunken and Mullard, I assume you are speaking of the Telefunken ECC83 (12AX7), the Mullard CV4004 (12AX7), the Telefunken ECC81 (12AT7), and the Mullard ECC81/CV4024 (12AT7).

I used the Telefunken ECC83 and Mullard CV4004 tubes (12AX7) in a pair of McIntosh MC275 MkV amplifier along with Mullard ECC81 tubes (12AT7). I have used the Mullard CV4004's in the line stage and moving coil phono stage of both a C1000C/T and a C2300 preamps. I liked the detail and open presentation and low background noise of the Telefunken ECC83 tubes the best. I used the Mullard CV4004's in two McIntosh MC275 MkV power amplifiers and discovered them to be a bit crisp on the top end for my taste so I sold them. The ECC81 versions of the Mullard 12AT7 tubes were used as invertors in the MC275's and did not seem to sound much different from the Telefunken ECC81's. I ended up selling them as well.

What I found really exciting was when I compared the NOS Telefunken ECC83 (12AX7) tubes to the reissued New Sensor Gold Lion 12AX7 gold pin tubes and discovered how close they sounded to each other. The Telefunkens were costing me $125 each at that time ordered from Germany, and the Genalex Gold Lion ECC83/B759/12AX7 tubes were only $36.00 ordered from a US supplier.

I still run Telefunken ECC83's in the moving coil phono stage of my McIntosh C2300 preamp along with ECC83/B759/12AX7 tubes in the line stage. The smooth plate Teles are ultra quiet. The 12AT7's I use in my two McIntosh MC2301 tube power amps are NOS Siemens ECC801S. To my ears they outperformed NOS Mullard, Telefunken, and Genalex, as well as new reissue Genalex Gold Lion ECC81/B739/12AT7 I have on hand.

I don't know if any of this information will be helpful to you but it reflects my personal experience with these various tubes in preamps and amplifiers.

FYI the ecc88 6922 7308 is not a sub for 12ax7, only the ecc83 e83cc ecc803s cv4004 are.

John.......Correct. Typo mixed with CRS. Thank you for catching my mistake. It has been corrected.

Good to see your post. Don't be such a stranger.

Truer words were never spoken! :)

For what it's worth, I recently replaced the original 12AX7's that came with my PrimaLuna DiaLogue One (they are basically new-production Shuguang tubes that test very high) with new-production Mullard's. I had heard many great things about these, so why not? I have less than 100 hours on them, but in my amp, my system, and to my ears, they are less crisp and a TAD less detailed than the stock PrimaLuna tubes, with a slightly rolled-off top end (ie: is this what is normally called "warmer"?). But, frankly, I like them! The warmer character and darker top end help significantly with listening fatigue, and so far at least they seem more "musical" and involving to me. I would recommend them, but, again, in your system and to your ears the results could be different...

I had new-production Mullards in my C2300 for a bit. I liked them, but as time went on the low end disappeared somewhat. They probably didn't get enough time to fill out, but they got enough for the basic character to come through. I may put them back in for another 40–50 hours, unless the incoming Psvanes are killer.

I agree about warmer tubes and listening fatigue, though. The longest-tenured tubes in my 2300 are JJ ECC803s tubes. Warmer than the Mullards, with a weighty, full bottom end compared to everything else I've tried, making them good for home theater, too. No listening fatigue even at (for me) high volumes.

This all coming from a neophyte tube listener with solid-state leanings.