M2 Equipment Review by John Atkinson
 

A great read:

https://absolutehiend.com/media/wysi...tereophile.pdf

As the article states, almost no one uses sealed enclosures anymore. The speaker designer has to deal with some disadvantages in all designs. But those originating from seal enclosures usually cannot be corrected, e.g., excessive back pressure resulting in bleed-through, cabinet resonance, slow transient response, loss of sensitivity, etc.

Slow transient response?? I think you got that reversed. The other disadvantages, but efficiency (get a bigger amp), can be addressed via good execution, which is what Magico is all about.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Agree! Please provide evidence.
In the mean time, please look the Magico S5 THD measurement done at the NRC. The lowest one Soundstage ever recorded. Not a single ported design came close.
According to your "facts" it should have been the other way around.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

Alon's comments on the sealed cabinet design pretty much address these issues, as does Magico's record in pushing the performance envelope across an expanding product line over the past decade. Remarkable achievements!!

YG Acoustics also manage to get great results with sealed enclosures.
So it can be done.

Various speaker manufacturers extol the virtues of the bass alignments they use, sealed or ported.

Their actual execution far outweighs any differences in the alignment used.

Sealed boxes have a similar roll off to transmission line, however the efficiency of such systems is lower due to the inward radiating energy not being utilised by the cabinet. Distortion also occurs as the air in the box is compressed and expanded adiabatically as the cone moves in and out, the force required to move the cone changes non linearly with respect to the cone excursion. Both sealed and vented designs usually require careful absorption to avoid rear radiating sound bouncing off the cabinet walls, and passing through the bass driver causing boxy resonances.

Transmission line by contrast sounds very natural because there is no build up of pressure behind the bass cone, with the rear radiating air being forced through an internal labyrinth to reinforce the bottom end of the frequency band. This also means no rear sound is re-radiated through the bass driver. The other advantage is that the air in the transmission line loads the bass driver and lowers its resonant frequency. This allows for the extended low end response and keeps the bass driver well damped, requiring less excursion than sealed or ported speakers to produce the same output...transmission line has enormous benefits compared to sealed and vented including improved resolution and reduced distortion, even frequency response and deeper, faster and better defined bass.

(A properly designed compression driver and horn will have even less excursion and provide a more even frequency response compared to other designs.)

I am not technically savvy enough to comment on the measured performance of ported vs sealed speakers but I do know good bass when I hear it. In my room, with my acoustical treatments, very well reviewed (and measured) ported speakers performed poorly (bass bloat). From the first second I heard bass through a Magico M3 (and before my QSub's and without changing anything else), I knew I had solved that problem. Whatever the technology does, it works for me in my room.

Cincy

Cincy,

Your system looks amazing!!!

I agree..and must sound amazing,too.

I heard M3's with JL Gotham subs when I demoed the S7 and was absolutely blown away!
QSubs are a better match,no doubt.

S7s and Accuphase are very nice too. :music:

I hope to upgrade my A3s to M3s. But still examining if they may be a little to large. If so then the M2s.

Thanks Jazz..
Eric

I was seemingly critical of Magico speakers on the Wilson thread. However, these reviews (M6 tas M2 Stereophile) are undeniably excellent. Magico has a loyal following and obviously makes great loudspeakers that many folks like and think are the very best. I think every design whether it be port, sealed, transmission line has its adherents. When you are on a thread in a Magio or Wilson or any Forum don't say "Well, I like your brand. It's great and then go on to say why you like yours so much better". It irritates me because it seems you are promoting your brand in a different Forum when a person does this. One certainly has freedom of speech but it comes with responsibility not to offend.

Discussing design issues and concepts is another matter altogether and knowledgeable folks like Buffalo Bill have a lot of knowledge that most are interested in, myself included.

Charles,

I can see how you could get upset. I've been upset for the same reason over speakers and equipment that I enjoy. On another forum, someone was literally comparing a $300 Yamaha to 10K+ Pass Labs saying the Yamaha was noticeably better. I just figured they escaped from a mental hospital and didn't even respond. It was clear what the Yamaha owner was up to. And this was sometime before I even owned Pass gear (though I had heard it numerous times before).

However, some people's motives are purer than that. We have to consider the personality and life experience of the person asking the questions. For instance, as a former homicide detective I normally ask rather direct questions. Some can get offended at the form of the questions at times, but it's just how I'm use to asking questions. Most of the time I want facts not opinions, but if you include an opinion then tell me the "why" behind it. And if you don't have any "whys" then you can expect me to challenge the answer - as this is my previous life experience.

Also most when they compare speakers they automatically compare them to what they know best or at least have some knowledge of. If a Martin Logan speaker owner was in a Magico forum I would be expecting him to automatically compare Magico with what he knew best i.e. Martin Logan.

And some threads within the Wilson forum aren't just about Wilson. For instance, in the Wilson thread I participated in it was about Wilson, Vivid, and Magico too. So, I felt as if I could discuss any of them freely.

I really like Wilson. I like the sound. My wife and I we really like the look as well. They are very distinctive looking. And because of my life experience I want to know why I like something (how are they built) and will they stay that way (durability, quality). I really desire to know about their cabinet structure, drivers, and why they use a ported design, etc. But in asking my questions you can expect some comparing and contrasting to what I know best, as that is my frame of reference. It's how I learn. But all those questions are now being answered elsewhere...

So, while I know some cross-post to elevate their branded speaker not everyone is about that. Some have a genuine interest.

I know it will never happen because some folks thrive on controversy but I think threads that ask for direct comparisons invite irritation because it invites folks to come on a Forum just as you said. I hope that you will understand I meant no ill will. I think Magico a great speaker and I truly mean this, not just mouthing it.:yes:

Charles,

I'm, in no way upset at you or anyone here at all. And if I've given the impression that I'm I apologize. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and always hope they have the best intentions. I don't get upset on these forums. I just see forum members as friends sharing notes and audio journeys.

IMO when you're at this level of speakers - Wilson, Vivid, Magico and many more - they are all good, but for different reasons. Unfortunately, though it seems that questions about Wilson vs Magico invite controversy which I don't really understand. Since, I'm rather new to audio forums (and thus late too many previous discussions and perhaps bad feelings) I can only guess it is an us vs. them thing.

But IMO it doesn't have to be. All of us are different. We each have different hearing abilities. And some of us listen to different music which may make a difference as well. So, naturally some will go down path M while others may choose path W. And the why behind that audio journey can be very interesting.

The main thing is that we enjoy the music the way it sounds best to us.

JoeN,

Through our "intense" discussion we have become good friends. :yes:

Charles

Wonderful!
That's what a friendly forum is for! :thumbsup:

Sorry, but my previous reply seems to have disappeared.

Charles, yes we are friends and if you and your wife are ever in SW FL drop us a line. Perhaps if schedules match up we can get together for a glass of wine, dinner, and to listen to some music togther.

Huge +1 to this....i never understood and get quite hacked off at those who look down their nose at brands that don't fit the fanboy or other subjective personal bias choices,...when they say something immediately followed by... it's good but it's not brand X or Y it is very hard to stomach.

Absolutely agree!

You see this a lot in this hobby unfortunately....I wonder if the same thing happens in discussions involving fine wine, coffee, exotic cars? I could only imagine the arguing between the Ferrari and Lamborgini groups!

- Buck

Yes because humans are involved, I am sure it does [emoji16].

Peter Gabriel's song "Not One of Us" sums it up quite nicely!

"....A foreign body
And a foreign mind
Never welcome
In the land of the blind
You may look like we do
Talk like we do
But you know how it is
You're not one of us
Not one of us
No you're not one of us
Not one of us
Not one of us
No you're not one of us
There's safety in numbers
When you learn to divide..."

I went from a ported speaker (802d3) to an M3. Bass became a lot cleaner and more visceral. I am a supporter of sealed enclosures.

Joe, just saw your post. I will and would look forward to it very much.

Charles

I just always assume that different people are looking for the sound that sounds best to them. Peoples opinion of what brand is "best" or "better" will depend on so many different factors, that I feel that any answer about music gear, be it here, at a show, or in a store will be different if the two people are sitting right there, listening to the same music.

Gear will sound different in everyone's different home. The type of music you like, and the way you like to listen to music will be a factor on what is "best" for you.

Now, I do think that many people can come together to agree is some gear is "good" or "bad". Even distortion (euphony) is desired by some people.

The better definition of "quality" I read the other day - If the gear you are listening to does not involve you emotionally, you might need to reconsider the gear.

Buck... you spelled Lamborghini wrong. :p

Charles,

I recognize you from the Wilson forum. If I remember correctly, you were or are a die - hard Wilson fan. At one point, you owned the venerable Maxx 3’s, right?

I, too, am a true Wilson fan, having owned the WP7’s, WP8’s and currently the Sasha #1’s. I’ve always loved them. But, as you might expect, I’m always looking for that ever elusive audio nirvana, which is part of the joy of this hobby for me.

Recently, the question was posed to me, “Have you ever heard Magico?” Truth is I haven’t. It seems the Wilson fan club typically don’t play in the same sandbox as the Magico fans. But after having done some preliminary research, the quest to find out more about this brand grew.

So, having recognized you as an experienced Wilson owner and, perhaps, one who has also listened and enjoyed Magico, I’d love for you to weigh in on the benefits of both. Yes, I recognize that there’s no perfect speaker, but your input will most assuredly proved to be invaluable.

Thanks in advance.

I find it interesting that folks will sometimes focus on the technology a particular product uses rather than the sound it produces. While I own Wilson speakers if they ceased to exist tomorrow and I needed new speakers it would be Magico as I've heard the M Pro and thought they sound great. In reality I could live happily forever with either brand regardless of them being either ported or sealed ... I simply love how they both sound.

Cheers

George

As a Magico owner, I have similar feelings. Both brands are terrific, and I could live happily with either for a long time.

Thank you for asking. I have owned acoustic suspension. I have owned ports. I can tell you it is the execution of the design and not the type that is by far the most important. Then it becomes a matter of taste. Which do you prefer?

Magico is very expensive. However, I believe their design could be further improved by bi or tri- amping. This could take Magico to the next level. I'm not sure why Magico hasn't done this. Any comment from a Magico aficionado?

I don't see this as much of a possibility for Wilsons. Wilsons are complicated enough already: cross flow port; all the time alignment gear; individual adjustable modules for each frequency range; exotic materials for cabinets.

Bi and tri amping; use of sophisticated electronic equalization all possibilities with Magico in future for improvement.

At present Magico and Wilson totally competitive. It's truly a matter of taste. Great to have such a wide range of choices. More designers use ports because I suspect ports are easier to achieve desired result; however Wolf obviously thoroughly understands sealed systems and is the ultimate perfectionist so he's not interested in "easy". He wants perfection.

With Magico you definitely have more models to choose from. This is advantage over Wilson. :yes:

____________________
Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house

Though this may have changed by now, early on Magico offered Q7s (and possibly some others?) with dual binding posts for bi-wiring/bi-amping. But from what I understand it is not recommended by Magico unless the end user really knows what they are doing...

https://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...7-loudspeakers

This said, I like both Magico and Wilson speakers and will be auditioning both (M3 & Alexia Series 2) after the COVID-19 crisis.