Revel or Wilson?
 

Everything is in the eye of the credit-card-holder.

Again, back to the subjective argument.

Frankly, it's tough to go wrong with either choice - both freggin' rock.

Do you like to be told the truth or lied to?

this is exactly my current dilemma (at least until I listen to more speakers, then it'll be a quandry).

I agree with the results alluded to. Wilsons generally do not measure as well as they are perceived. Revels do, especially the ultima2 line. The salon2 is clearly an epic loudspeaker, with the flatest full range response curve I've seen in measurements in the 25kish price point The sasha is an improvement over the wp8 design, and it shows in measurements, but it's not flat.

Stereophile: Wilson Audio Sasha W/P loudspeaker
Stereophile: Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker

now, these are not definitive measurements. They are done by one man, who also edits a magazine that sells advertisements---an uncalibrated microphone, a loose stand, a subway rumble can all color 'measurements'---and I'm sure you can think of many other spitefully subtle ways of manipulation if one has motivation.

that said, I have no reason to not believe those numbers, especially when they line up with the nrc's measurements.


now we come to the real deal: what's important. Flat response? Looks? Cachet? In a nutshell, this is my take on wilson sasha: beautiful loudspeaker, would visually integrate in my loft with ease, sound more than adequate, but in the end I might feel a bit had. You see, you can compare wilson to rolex. A decent product made by both, but those in the know don't respect rolex---it's what every tom dick and harry associates with luxury/status. They know the real deal lies with patek phillippe, iwc, or even a cheaper brand than rolex. Wilson, when you get past the fans, the looks, feels the same way. It might be a decent, even fine, even great product, but the fanbase is so off putting, the carefully crafted marketing and lifestyle so gag inducing, that one just might put that ugly as sin salon2 in their living room out of righteous indignation.

:D

thanks for listening! :thumbsup:

sorry vesuvius, the article doesn't mention anything subjective, only objective.

that said, both do, indeed, rock. Which will you feel more comfortable buying is the real question. The self taught speaker maker, or the company employing a league of acoustical phds who literally wrote the book on speaker measurements and have the facility to back it up?

:lurk::lurk:

"now we come to the real deal: what's important."

My opinion, in this order:

1. Low distortion, especially in the bass
2. Controlled directivity to give good coverage without including too much of the room.
3. Placement in the room.
4. Bandwidth and frequency response

I have not heard either speaker. But from everything I have seen online, I think that Wilson and their dealers do such a great job with number 3 that they overcome their measured bandwidth & frequency response "deficiencies". Plus, our ears are much more tolerant of frequency response deviations than we think, so I can understand their loyal following.

With that said, if you can get the first three things on my list along with flat response and bandwidth from 20hz to 20khz, it seems to me you have it all. At least on paper, Revel sure seems to have the potential to achieve that.

Depends...do you want to a listen to a speaker that sounds good or one that measures well (and by this question I am not implying that the Revel does not sound good, rather I am simply pointing out that if it measures well does not necessaily translate into it sounding good)? In the 1970s, many amplifier designers used gobs of negative feedback because it lowered measured THD levels. Did those amplifiers sound good :no: or did they measure well on THD :yes: ? Just because a piece of gear measures well, it does not mean it will meet a consumer's aesthetic tastes. And that is the rub in audio - the push-pull between science and art.

Thank you, Cyril, for digging a little deeper.

From a purchaser's perspective - objectivity means nothing - even price. Just get into an argument with yourself (or sig other) about "well - THIS one that I like THAT much better is only THIS much more..." Justification is a subjective, emotional response.

How a speaker measures has very little relevance to how it will actually sound in someone else's room due to obvious reasons... Wilson uses no less than 3 rooms of various acoustic properties including a room that has adjustable acoustical properties to arrive at a balance of sonic properties and qualities that may actually sound good in a typical room of the end user. All I can say is that I loved to measure my various speakers in my room and Sasha measured by far the flattest in my own room and sounded superb. They were also by far the easiest speaker to position in the room without loosing composure or causing bass problems and anomalies. No one talks about the various room/woofer to woofer induced suck-outs and humps of their own room when they purchase a speaker after reading the reviews when they are in fact a reality for everyone... A good manufacturer will strive for a balance of traits that results in a musical whole at the end user's room and I feel Wilson achieves that in spades. :yes:

Serge...Wilson sucks and you know it :D





just kidding :D

Given the size of the gun hanging on your side KMC45 I will not argue :no:...

What KMC45 said :yes:

I've listened to Revel, I've listened to Wilsons. I guess I love the way Wilsons suck since I am on my 3rd pair and loved each and every pair. :music: Just to remind everyone that I am not completely biased, I also have 7 Sonus Faber speakers in my theater, they also suck since they don't measure all that great. :yes:

Then you really need the new McVacuum to clean up that mess! :lmao:

Serge...i was only joking. :thumbsup:

When you get to a certain price point and both Wilson and Revel are easily there, the engineering that goes into those speakers insures that the sound you get is probably just what the design team intended. Irregardless of how they measure I would pick the one that sounded best to me.

I have not spent any time with the Salon2's or Ultima2's so I can't say if I would prefer them to the Sasha's. The ability to order the Wilson product in a variety of colors is a plus for some.
Jim

thanks for posting this, which was going to be my response to cmalak and vesuvius. It's real published research, double blind tests, with trained and untrained subjects---better speakers are those that measure better.

you have to take the room out of the equation---no one can account for that apart from custom builds, to answer phc1. This really is a red herring. And while wilson may have three (!) rooms, harman has an entire testing facility. With a speaker placement robot for whatever that's worth!



and there lies the rub. I despise the salon2 look. I love the sasha design (I'm a modernist, it'll match my furniture (no, really)). Careful a/b tests will determine if the loss in fidelity is worth the aesthetic. I wish my visual preferences weren't so important. Alas.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...dkc1Ujd2Wmc9PQ

https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...dkc1Ujd2Wmc9PQ

I own both of them in the same room. I can say that Both make totally different sound. But both are absolutely enjoyable. I like
both of them. Wilson provides more jump factor. more fun to the music. Salon2 doesn't call any attention to itself. sound smooth,
ease, but powerful.

Your picture is so "neat" that I wanted to be sure everyone could see it. . . What a setup!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...g?t=1300105321

Are those casters on the Wilson's removable?

What model Dust Buster is that?

:laughin:

My kind of humor. Thank you for starting my morning with a good laugh Bill.

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

Alberto

Have heard both, Wilson is more accurate, dont buy from just specs buddy, they are both great, but my $$$$ is Wilson :)

Go do a hard core listen 1st. Up to your ears...

I love Bill's humor.

Ha Ha I love my battery dust buster too. I guessed at the time I took this photo I am charging the battery from Furutech outlet nearby :>. I was about to clean Stewart black screen frame from dust. That Day the Sophia was still on casters, But yes they're removable and should be removed. As well as protective film on cabinet, that should be removed too. Problem is that Transparent speaker cables were factory calibrated for Salon2. But I use it with Sophia3 just like that. I guess it may not have much negative effect.

thanks Jprice for posting the picture directly, here are front view one.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...YUlqY3BjR0E9PQ

https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...ZEtZY1JFQlE9PQ

Sweet system! :yes:

Thanks a lot cougit25.

I would say the opposite.

This I agree with, it all comes down to personal preference in the end.

All,

I own the Revel Salon 2s and have listened to the Sashas extensively. I can tell you they are both terrific music devices. It's really a personal decision.

Both are very dynamic, accurate, can go low, terrific highs...the Sashas are more efficient but don't be fooled, they really love power (good power at that). The Salons really need a lot of power to be at their best; and, boy, they can can sound great.

Thanks,
Mike

Ritmo, if you use single wire speaker cables with Salon2, Try a special jumpers and you will gain in upper bass, mid, high. I use Transparent
Ref XL jumpers, poor built quality but outstanding sound.

Toga - I prefer single speaker wires with the Salon 2s. I just purchased Shunyata speaker wires and jumpers - still waiting for them to arrive.

Thanks,
Mike

Ritmo, try jumpers in various config. they all make difference.
I ended up connect red main to upper terminal and link jumper down, but blakc main to lower terminal and use jumper to link up. I hope this will share jumper's characters evenly to every drivers.

This thread's an antique but I'm bumping it because I'm (impatiently) awaiting delivery of my Ultima 2s. I preferred their brand of smooth response and tight control over the mid band and high end. A lifetime of listening to etched and elevated upper mid band energy (ironically, frequently through JBL's/Harman's professional products) has taught me to shy away from such sound. I just don't like peaks/emphasis in the upper mid-band. The Revels deliver smooth response (sound) all the way up in that regard. Never mind the measurements, you can hear that quality right off. They are very smooth operators, easy going and to me, natural sounding.

I don't really select (or at least I'd prefer to think I don't select) speakers based on what they look like but to be frank, I think the Revels look fine. No kidding.....I find many modern speakers look like squared up Daleks to me....and not just the Wilsons.

As lamented, the Revels come only in black or high gloss mahogany but as already discussed, one thing the Wilsons share with Daleks....and it ups the WAF considerably.....is that they come in colors.

http://doctorwhotoys.net/dalekparadigm.jpg

BTW, I thought the Alexx demo in Chicago this year was one of the three or four most impressive sounding rooms at the show. Of course, comparing Alexxes (Alexxi?) to Ultima 2s is really not fair to either product. But they did have that etched sound (and very popular it is these days) I thought spoke of a certain level of distortion I felt isn't something I hear in music. To be fair, the Alexx(es) had less of that than a lot of highly vaunted products I heard at the show. No doubt I'd be happy with a pair of them....no doubt at all.

Anyway, the Revel section needed a bump. Happy to provide it!

Lew, you're still waiting for your Salon's ????

Given when I ordered my Studio 2's (a month ago) and they come from the same whse (which had both them and the Salon's in stock) there's no reason why you should be waiting this long that I can see ?? From the time mine were ordered to arrival was 5 business days.

Hi Dave. They have black in stock, but I'm waiting for mahogany. I have been tempted to get the black. There's another reason why mine are "slow boat." I'll PM you.

I've seen both but I own the mahogany. My wife wouldn't have the black ones in the house. As a rule, she doesn't like mahogany but she loves the Salon 2s. IMO the mahogany are worth waiting for.

So is the piano black. Stunning.

Your wife and my wife will get long famously! She's advised me to be patient....easy for her to say.

Agreed, no wrong choice here but I've been waiting so long I might as well hold out another couple of weeks.

I'm feeling sorry for you two.........my 'Man Cave' is MY man cave ! ...... LOL !