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maril555 12-07-2015 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjn04 (Post 745426)
I had a Jade Platinum when I initially bought my Shindo setup. I had very little success making it work with my Shindo preamp. I tried Direct in to MC on my Shindo Monbrison, a Silver-Core SUT, a Choir Hashimoto HM-7, and both Auditorium 23 Standard SUT's. The latter being the low impedance SPU version, and the Denon 103 version. I remember my best results were the Hashimoto, set to it's LOW impedance setting. The worst was direct in to the preamps MC input. All that said, I got too soft of a sound with the Koetsu. It didn't have any PRAT, and was slow and uninvolving. My EMT Tsd-15 was so locked in with the A23 Denon, so that's what I kept, until moving to the T2. I notice you use a Graham, and FWIW, my Jade was on a Basis Vector 3 arm. My best sound from a Koetsu was an RSP on a Graham 2.2, but the system was too different to say I had a mismatch with the Vector/Jade. Not only that, but I did get better sound with the Koetsu/Vector going in to a different preamp prior to the Shindo. I also plan on trying an alternative cartridge soon, hopefully on a second turntable. I am considering the Kiseki, and also intrigued by the Charisma carts. It sounds as if you're getting good sound out of your VR, which is a tremendous preamp.

Thanks so much for responding to my questions.
I'm using MC input on Shindo, as I don't have SUT yet, and I have to tell you, my experience is very different form what you describe.
It is very dynamic, not soft, "slow", or rolled-off at all.
In that sense, Shindo VR is not much different from my other preamp, Tron Syren Ultimate- the only difference is timbral balance.
As a matter of fact, I had our audiophile club meeting at my place, where I used Shindo, and it seems, people universally liked, what they heard. It even got an applause on a couple of pieces.
I do have a few reservations though with my present arrangement
1. VR has a little bit too much gain for my 108 dB system
2. MC input is not completely quiet, as it is with Tron, hum is VERY low, but present.
A question- what is the cartridge loading value in VR?
I know, Koetsu "likes" 100 Ohm.
Will an outboard SUT potentially minimize the residual hum, I'm experiencing with the bult-in SUT?

junker 12-07-2015 04:13 PM

Phono Input‐Switchable
Phono MC(RCA Pin Jack)Input Sensitivity/Impedance:0.2mV/2 - 100Ω.
Phono MM(RCA Pin Jack)Input Sensitivity/Impedance:3mV/100KΩ.
Output(XLR Jack) Impedance: 8V/600Ω.
Phono Max. Input Voltage:1,200 mV.
Total Harmonic Distortion:0.01%.
Signal to Noise Ratio:119 dB.
Frequency Responce:20 - 20,000 Hz.
Power Consumption:80W.
Power Requirements:AC 120V or 220V - 230V 50/60 Hz.
Dimesions:W 400×H 165×D 270 mm.
Weight:10.5 Kg.

fjn04 12-07-2015 05:34 PM

Byung-Hyun- VERY nice looking setup you have there. Congrats on the potential acquisition of a Shindo 301, I've enjoyed it every time I've heard it. This is my opinion, and obviously there are others who know more.... I have preferred an outboard SUT with Dynavector, Koetsu, and as you might imagine, EMT. The latter not a fair fight, as the built in Shindo MC is optimized for LO impedance. I would just enjoy the ride. Get that wonderful table, and run the SPU in to your V/R. Then of course, you can always get a Homage T1. maril555- tough one there. That's where it would be nice if you had an attenuator on you amp, like Shindo uses. Obviously, this doesn't appear to be an issue with your Tron PRE in to your AMP. It doesn't sound like a 12AU7, or 12AT7 if it's just a hum. I get this occasionally only when I move my SUT, and moving it an inch or so alleviates the hum. Either that, or re-dressing one of the interconnects. Again, there are others who know more, but that's been my experience. Cheers -Don

junker 12-07-2015 06:07 PM

With 108 db speakers you will hear hum/noise with just about anything... transformers don't generate any noise, only distortion (mostly 2nd order). That's the beauty about transformers... they are passive devices that both increase gain and reduce impedance - both desirable with MC cartridges. An external SUT may be less influenced by other EMF sources but it's hard to say if so, and how much. Shindo uses mu metal shielded phono transformers.

maril555 12-07-2015 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junker (Post 745561)
With 108 db speakers you will hear hum/noise with just about anything... transformers don't generate any noise, only distortion (mostly 2nd order). That's the beauty about transformers... they are passive devices that both increase gain and reduce impedance - both desirable with MC cartridges. An external SUT may be less influenced by other EMF sources but it's hard to say if so, and how much. Shindo uses mu metal shielded phono transformers.

I agree. Hum is most likely due to the power supply-generated EMF being picked-up by the SUT.
Here lies the reason for my initial question. Since the internal SUT, no matter how well shielded, is in close proximity to the internal PS, it hums. Then physically removing an external SUT away from the VR power supply, in theory may produce less hum

junker 12-08-2015 01:07 AM

Yes that seems about right, but don't forget that the V-R has pretty extensive interior sectioning. It would be interesting to hear your results if you audition an external SUT. Also, consider trying out a Mr. T. - it clearly improved AC hum in my apartment.

Loop4fun 12-08-2015 04:02 AM

SUTs are very cartridge specific. The Shindo's are designed for the the SPU type cartridges and I felt like I had too much gain for the Dynavector. I had the same very low volume hum you describe with the internal VR's SUT, but none at all with the A23.

I just switched to the Teatro and have ordered a Bob's Sky 20. The Giscours works really well with the Teatro and Bob's 1131 at 1:20 but Bob said the Sky 1:20 uses the whole transformer rather than half of it. I'm looking forward to trying it. I also have a Lyra Etna and use a Lyra Erodion SUT with it. The Etna does not sound as good with the Bob's at 1:20. For it, he recommends the Sky 1:30.

While the VR's internal transformer worked ok with my Dynavector, I learned it was not the optimum choice and was never meant to be. The T1 would not be either for that matter.

vinod_david 12-08-2015 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shindojo (Post 745520)
Hi Everyone, I am also new to the club.

Welcome to AA.

maril555 12-08-2015 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loop4fun (Post 745697)
SUTs are very cartridge specific. The Shindo's are designed for the the SPU type cartridges and I felt like I had too much gain for the Dynavector. I had the same very low volume hum you describe with the internal VR's SUT, but none at all with the A23.

I just switched to the Teatro and have ordered a Bob's Sky 20. The Giscours works really well with the Teatro and Bob's 1131 at 1:20 but Bob said the Sky 1:20 uses the whole transformer rather than half of it. I'm looking forward to trying it. I also have a Lyra Etna and use a Lyra Erodion SUT with it. The Etna does not sound as good with the Bob's at 1:20. For it, he recommends the Sky 1:30.

While the VR's internal transformer worked ok with my Dynavector, I learned it was not the optimum choice and was never meant to be. The T1 would not be either for that matter.

Teatro is an AMG cart, right?
My Koetsu Urushi Blue has a source impedance of 5 Ohm (considered low),
so, to my understanding, A 23 Hommage T1 should be a good match?
and so is Koetsu SUT.
Please, correct me, if I'm wrong
You confirmed my suspicion with regards to the origin of the MC input hum, I'm hoping external SUT will take care of that, and maybe will lower the gain?
Do you think Bob's devices might be a good match for Koetsu?
Tx

fjn04 12-08-2015 12:54 PM

Bob Satin has a lot of experience with Koetsu. See what he says. You may have hit upon something there. I'm sorry I didn't at least give the 1131 a shot…. The Sky did not exist at that time. With the 30-day trial, you have little to lose.
"While the VR's internal transformer worked ok with my Dynavector, I learned it was not the optimum choice and was never meant to be. The T1 would not be either for that matter." This is also my understanding as far as Dynavector/Shindo/Homage matching.


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