AudioAficionado.org - Aerial 7Ts with Subwoofer

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Ricjor1

05-21-2015 04:42 PM

Aerial 7Ts with Subwoofer

I understand every room is different, but for those that have subs with their Aerial 7Ts, where do you have it crossing over?

Masterlu

05-22-2015 11:11 AM

I recently added a JL F212 mine is x/o at 45Hz

scirica

05-22-2015 01:18 PM

Ivan: Are the Aerials running full range and this is just supplemental low bass?

Masterlu

05-22-2015 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scirica (Post 701381)

Ivan: Are the Aerials running full range and this is just supplemental low bass?

Steve... yes, the Sub can also be used with my TAD CR1's since they are in the same Accuphase system.

scirica

05-22-2015 02:39 PM

Nice!

Ricjor1

05-22-2015 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterlu (Post 701361)

I recently added a JL F212 mine is x/o at 45Hz

Ivan,

Thanks for the response. Now that I've added dual subs, I know Ill keep the
7Ts for a long time. If there is anyone on the fence regarding running subs with 7ts, do yourself a favor and purchase some. I submit you'll be pleasantly surprised by what you hear.

clpetersen

11-03-2015 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 701397)

Ivan,

Now that I've added dual subs, I know Ill keep the
7Ts for a long time. If there is anyone on the fence regarding running subs with 7ts, do yourself a favor and purchase some. I submit you'll be pleasantly surprised by what you hear.

Agree with this. In our case, we have the Aerial 6T's, so not as low as the 7T's (35 vs 28 Hz at -1.5 dB). We added dual subs, and kept the Aerials running full range (tried both ways). Subs I tried were Paradigm, JL Audio, and REL. Kept the RELs. The REL's (in my opinion) just blended better, and in fact REL uses a 12 dB/octave filter rather than the more common 24 dB filters. I think this worked very well in a music only set-up. Used the 'Sound Doctor' test CD and a few 'sub crawls' to get everything balanced.
__________________

Sunshyne

11-03-2015 06:35 PM

Clpetersen, what model JL's and REL's did you use? Did you use an active crossover or just subs to amp or preamp?

clpetersen

11-04-2015 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshyne (Post 738229)

Clpetersen, what model JL's and REL's did you use? Did you use an active crossover or just subs to amp or preamp?

I tried the JL Audio E110. This was the most versatile sub I tried with active 24 dB/octave crossovers, hi-pass feed thru back to amplifier, etc. I felt two subs worked better in our set-up and ended up with REL T-7's (30 Hz lower -6dB). With the REL I found it easier to blend in with the Aerial's, which I run full range. I did like the REL-preferred high level connections via a simple Neutrik connector - this also simplified our wiring as I simply connected to the extra terminals on the backs of the Aerials. Since I run pretty heavy gauge to the Aerials, any tiny signal drop over the short length of speaker cable was deemed (by me) to be inconsequential. Many people would run the REL cable back to the main amp.

Both are excellent; I just preferred the sound of REL in our setup (music only in this room).

Sunshyne

11-04-2015 06:51 PM

Thanks Clpetersen! It's not often that you can talk to someone who has used both products being considered. I was looking into both of those exact model subs for music and only have experience with the REL which I enjoy a lot.

Greg B

04-21-2016 08:48 AM

I Have mine crossed at 40hz, running 4 Martin Logan sealed, servo subs. I shut 2 of them off (2 in the back of the room) when I'm listening to music.

paulphoosreal

04-27-2016 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 775278)

I Have mine crossed at 40hz, running 4 Martin Logan sealed, servo subs. I shut 2 of them off (2 in the back of the room) when I'm listening to music.

Are you running them full range or using the high and low pass crossovers in your MLs?

Greg B

04-29-2016 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulphoosreal (Post 776470)

Are you running them full range or using the high and low pass crossovers in your MLs?

I'm using the high pass crossover @80hz

paulphoosreal

04-29-2016 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 776777)

I'm using the high pass crossover @80hz

Thanks for the info Greg. When you said your crossover was at 40 I was seeing how that worked for you. I high and low pass at approx 40hz and it seems to give the Aerials more dynamics and bottom heft without losing their tonality.

dentlfly

04-29-2016 04:28 PM

i've not heard the aerial 7T's. lots of high praise here. what is their sound like? i have thiel CS6's.

paulphoosreal

04-29-2016 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentlfly (Post 776860)

i've not heard the aerial 7T's. lots of high praise here. what is their sound like? i have thiel CS6's.

Thiels are a completely different speaker. Aerials can best be described as very neutral,musical and revealing. If the recording is great it will sound so. If bad. On Aerials. Hold your ears. Again. My 2 cents.

Greg B

05-01-2016 11:45 AM

^^^Agreed. I haven't heard those particular Thiels but the Aerials are very revealing. They reveal everything from the recording to the associated equipment IMO. They image very well, far better than anything else I've heard in their price range.

paulphoosreal

05-02-2016 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 777262)

IMO and 2 cents the Aerial 7Ts are the best speaker out there in the 20k and under price range. They do everything well. Add a couple of JL subs and you have a full range system that would be hard to beat for under 30/40k. Of course we all hear differently and want different things from our speakers. I value neutrality , musicality, soundstage and dynamics. That are non fatiguing. I found all of the above in my 7Ts and JL E 110 subs. But then again I get the upgrade syndrome and can't wait for the 12Ts to be out. Then I've heard really good input on Monitor Audios PLIi 500 speakers. Seems I'm always chasing newer and better. But then I spend a session with the 7s and I think why do I need anything more???

Ricjor1

05-02-2016 08:15 PM

I agree the 7Ts are some of the best speakers out there with subs. If the room is relatively big, then I submit adding subs are a must! That being said, the 7Ts are at a specific price point for a reason. Although I haven't heard the 20Ts, I'm assuming they must be better than the 7Ts. I'm sure the 12Ts will be a step-up from the 7Ts. I think they compete against speakers above their price category, but I do think they have their limitations. I remember when I had Wilson Sophia 3s and I kept going back and forth(I still do it every time I think about upgrading) about rather to upgrade to Sashas. My audiophile friend simply said, "Wilson has a line-up for a reason." He reminded me that "not always", but usually higher cost equates to better performance.
As much as I loved my Aerial 7ts with subs, there is something about subs I don't like. I can't put my finger on it, but that's why I ultimately wanted to find a speaker that I felt didn't require subs. If my room was smaller I would have kept my Aerial 7Ts.

paulphoosreal

05-02-2016 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 777657)

I agree the 7Ts are some of the best speakers out there with subs. If the room is relatively big, then I submit adding subs are a must! That being said, the 7Ts are at a specific price point for a reason. Although I haven't heard the 20Ts, I'm assuming they must be better than the 7Ts. I'm sure the 12Ts will be a step-up from the 7Ts. I think they compete against speakers above their price category, but I do think they have their limitations. I remember when I had Wilson Sophia 3s and I kept going back and forth(I still do it every time I think about upgrading) about rather to upgrade to Sashas. My audiophile friend simply said, "Wilson has a line-up for a reason." He reminded me that "not always", but usually higher cost equates to better performance. As much as I loved my Aerial 7ts with subs, there is something about subs I don't like. I can't put my finger on it, but that's why I ultimately wanted to find a speaker that I felt didn't require subs. If my room was smaller I would have kept my Aerial 7Ts.

I totally agree with your assessment that adding subs takes something from the equation.
Those Monitors have become for me a search for the holy grail. Will talk with you on that soon.

Ricjor1

05-02-2016 10:22 PM

I don't think you'll think they're the holy grail. You may prefer Aerial 7Ts with subs...I look forward to talking to you. The PL500S have a much bigger sound. I really do love them, but you may not.

Greg B

05-02-2016 11:11 PM

My 7T's are in a dedicated room as part of a combo home theater. I have 4 subwoofers in the room which is 28x14. All 4 subs are Martin Logan, sealed and servo controlled. When I first got the 7T's I had ported subs but did not like them in conjunction with the 7's, they were just too hard to integrate. Not the case with the ML's. I power 2 of them off when listening to music. I was at a dealer a few months ago that carries the Aerials along with other some other speakers in the same price range. Some of them did go deeper but did not have the overall clarity and expansive sound stage that the 7's have. Different stroked I guess.

paulphoosreal

05-03-2016 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 777715)

I do have a question for you. Are you high and low passing? And where. You've said 40hz and then said high pass at 80hz. I'd like to know what really works for you as our rooms are very close in size and to keep the 7Ts really clean of sub interaction I found that 40 hit it perfectly! Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Greg B

05-03-2016 10:06 AM

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...pskqfqxhma.jpg

Hopefully this helps. This is one of 2 ML Depth i that I use during music playback. I also have 2 ML Descent i that I use along with the Descent i for movies.

Ricjor1

05-03-2016 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 777775)

I had a ML Depth i paired with Wilson Audio Sophia 3s a couple of years ago.

paulphoosreal

05-07-2016 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 777863)

I had a ML Depth i paired with Wilson Audio Sophia 3s a couple of years ago.

Thank you. It does give me an idea of how the Aerials match up with the MLs. Did you ever try engaging the high pass at its lowest setting. From what I've read from the sound doc you should never run your mains full range with a sub. For me that was my solution to a perfect blend of bass with the 7s. Of course rooms, personal preference etc. are all factors and whatever makes one happy is the way to go. Thanks again for the photos

Greg B

05-09-2016 10:24 AM

I do not run my 7's full range, I cross them over at 40hz. I believe I tried every high pass option when setting up the ML's

paulphoosreal

05-09-2016 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 778844)

I do not run my 7's full range, I cross them over at 40hz. I believe I tried every high pass option when setting up the ML's

Thank you for the info. I couldn't make out whether the high pass was engaged or not. I like the fact the MLs give you so much adjustability.
I used the sound doctor CD and it helped immensely. Put my subs directly to outside of 7Ts,phase at 0 and polarity at 180. Volume at 11 o'clock. Crossover at 40HZ. High and low. Subs are 6 inches in front of mains. And angled to longest part of room. Must be my room but cannot make out subs in mix till lowest octave. Bass is very defined. That being said. Due to difference in cone materials I know I have subs working. Now my dilemma is go for full range speakers or be happy with a setup that meets most of what I need. Oh the joys of this wonderful hobby of ours. What to do, what to do.

Ricjor1

05-09-2016 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulphoosreal (Post 778855)

"What to do, what to do." It's hard because the 7Ts with subs are really, really great. When you start with something great, you don't get "night and day" differences. I'm really delighted with the change I've made and would do it all over again. My non-audiophile friends say there's a night and day difference, but to my ears there isn't. I do think in some areas there is a significant difference. Dynamics: the PL500s go from soft to loud in a way the Aerial 7Ts with subs just couldn't do. Voices are powerful and soft at the same time. The soundstage has more front to back placement...solo instruments/singers seem to step forward, although you continue to hear everything else that's going on. One of my non-audiophile friend's listened for the first time on Saturday- her comments were "they are very clear, you can hear the lows, highs and every thing so clearly." Bass is powerful if the recording has it, if it doesn't you won't hear artificial bass. I've listened to more music without one thought about what's wrong since I've had the PL500s. To me that's the strongest endorsement I can provide. No absolutes and your experience may be different.

Ricjor1

05-09-2016 08:40 PM

I should add that with the Aerial 7Ts/ subs I listened with my volume control set on 72. With the PL500s the volume control is set at 66. When I do turn it to 72 WOW!

paulphoosreal

05-09-2016 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 778940)

I should add that with the Aerial 7Ts/ subs I listened with my volume control set on 72. With the PL500s the volume control is set at 66. When I do turn it to 72 WOW!

Your comments and observations are very appreciated. Trouble is they make me want to hear the Pl500s even more. What you describe is exactly what I'm looking for. Coherent sound from top to bottom without any need to think about what I'm missing. I'm big into soundstage and dynamics. I'm going to Chicago this weekend!

Ricjor1

05-10-2016 08:44 AM

Take your own music and enjoy. If it turns out the PL500s aren't for you, at least you made the decision with your own ears. Let me know what you think! Again, if you are ever in San Antonio, TX give me a call.

Greg B

05-11-2016 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 779017)

The 500's sound like fantastic speakers. I was not familiar with them so I read up. I know I'm stating the obvious here but they are nearly 3x the price of the 7T's. Just for comparison, I'd like to see what Michael Kelly would come up with in that price range.

Ricjor1

05-12-2016 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 779305)

If you read my comments it's clear that I'm not comparing the Aerial 7T's to the 500's. If you read the thread I've clearly been comparing the Aerial 7T's with subs and in my case with the JL Audio CR1 Electronic Crossover. Considering what I had with the Aerial 7T's, including cables for the subs, cables for the crossover and power cords that I purchased brings the delta in "retail" cost to less than 10K retail of the PL500's.

Here are my comments: Now that I've added dual subs, I know Ill keep the
7Ts for a long time. (5/22/2015)
I agree the 7Ts are some of the best speakers out there with subs. If the room is relatively big, then I submit adding subs are a must! That being said, the 7Ts are at a specific price point for a reason. Although I haven't heard the 20Ts, I'm assuming they must be better than the 7Ts. I'm sure the 12Ts will be a step-up from the 7Ts. I think they compete against speakers above their price category, but I do think they have their limitations. You may prefer Aerial 7Ts with subs (5/2/2016)
It's hard because the 7Ts with subs are really, really great. (5/9/2016)

It's silly to compare the 7T's without subs directly to the 500s. 1) Price difference(although price isn't always an indicator of better) 2) My room is more suitable to a full range speaker and I wouldn't compare the 500s to the 7T's in a smaller room

My comments really aren't about the 7T's, but more about my dissatisfaction with subs. A year ago I posted, "Now that I've added dual subs, I know I'll keep the 7Ts for a long time. Yet, after several months with subs, something just didn't sound correct. Every time I've had subs, I've ended up dissatisfied and selling them. Because of my room's dimensions I wanted/ required a full range speaker and I found that with the PL500s.

Finally you said, "Just for comparison, I'd like to see what Michael Kelly would come up with in that price range." If you read my post from 5/2/2016 in this thread, I clearly mentioned the 20T's and 12T's. To be honest with you, I was trying to wait for the 12T's, but I was presented such a great opportunity to purchase the PL500s I couldn't resist. I'm grateful and extremely happy I purchased the PL500's.

paulphoosreal

05-12-2016 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricjor1 (Post 779387)

If you read my comments it's clear that I'm not comparing the Aerial 7T's to the 500's. If you read the thread I've clearly been comparing the Aerial 7T's with subs and in my case with the JL Audio CR1 Electronic Crossover. Considering what I had with the Aerial 7T's, including cables for the subs, cables for the crossover and power cords that I purchased brings the delta in "retail" cost to less than 10K retail of the PL500's. Here are my comments: Now that I've added dual subs, I know Ill keep the 7Ts for a long time. (5/22/2015) I agree the 7Ts are some of the best speakers out there with subs. If the room is relatively big, then I submit adding subs are a must! That being said, the 7Ts are at a specific price point for a reason. Although I haven't heard the 20Ts, I'm assuming they must be better than the 7Ts. I'm sure the 12Ts will be a step-up from the 7Ts. I think they compete against speakers above their price category, but I do think they have their limitations. You may prefer Aerial 7Ts with subs (5/2/2016) It's hard because the 7Ts with subs are really, really great. (5/9/2016) It's silly to compare the 7T's without subs directly to the 500s. 1) Price difference(although price isn't always an indicator of better) 2) My room is more suitable to a full range speaker and I wouldn't compare the 500s to the 7T's in a smaller room My comments really aren't about the 7T's, but more about my dissatisfaction with subs. A year ago I posted, "Now that I've added dual subs, I know I'll keep the 7Ts for a long time. Yet, after several months with subs, something just didn't sound correct. Every time I've had subs, I've ended up dissatisfied and selling them. Because of my room's dimensions I wanted/ required a full range speaker and I found that with the PL500s. Finally you said, "Just for comparison, I'd like to see what Michael Kelly would come up with in that price range." If you read my post from 5/2/2016 in this thread, I clearly mentioned the 20T's and 12T's. To be honest with you, I was trying to wait for the 12T's, but I was presented such a great opportunity to purchase the PL500s I couldn't resist. I'm grateful and extremely happy I purchased the PL500's.

I totally agree with you Rick. Yes the 7Ts with subs are fantastic. Yet as you have found out. I have also found. Their is just "something " not totally coherent when you add subs to the mixture. Of course we all hear differently. Maybe it's the cone material, maybe the amp. Whatever the reason I hear a difference from top to bottom that I am more aware of the longer I listen to my 7Ts and JL Audio E110s. I too want a true full range speaker. The 7s are fantastic for their price and I get a solid 30hz in my listening room. But I want more hence the addition of subs. That is the sole reason why I'm so excited about the 500s. I'm going to Chicago to hear them this weekend and will let you know my impression. Yes. 30k is big bucks but I want my final speaker as well. In talking to Mike Kelly he has informed me that it will be at least 2017 before 12Ts are out. My question to me is. Are the 500s worth getting now or do I make do till the 12Ts come out. As I'm an Aerial dealer it raises a question I won't be able to answer till I hear the Monitors. And yes I find products that I don't install and like them better. And buy them. Again. I agree with the comments made about costs. Yet it's all relevant if we get what makes each of us satisfied without the constant upgrading which gets costly over time. And the final nail in this discussion for me, I didn't find the 20Ts went deep enough without help so their wasn't any reason to buy those over 7Ts. My worry is the 12s maybe same story. Well written Rick.

Ricjor1

05-12-2016 01:33 PM

paulphoosreal,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm a humble person, but I love talking about stereo and describing the differences that I hear when comparing components. Are the 500s worth it? The only person that can answer that question is you. I love the PL500s, but "THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES WITH AUDIO, ONLY PREFERENCES." e.g. I hear so much talk about how great the Bricasti M28s are. I've compared them directly to the Jeff Rowland 625 S2 and with the exception of bass, I clearly preferred the 625 S2. Forums are great when we used them to talk about new products or simply compare products that we have experience with...I submit forums are bad when we talk down to each other or act as if the equipment we own and/ or prefer is the absolute best. I'm not saying the PL500s are the best or that anyone will like them as I do. As a matter of fact, there are several speakers that I like more than the PL500s; however they are way out of my price range. I'm simply saying what I hear.

Greg B

05-12-2016 06:01 PM

My humble apologies, I did not read all the posts and that's on me. I honestly didn't think you were criticizing the 7T's if I came off that way.

Ricjor1

05-12-2016 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B (Post 779456)

My humble apologies, I did not read all the posts and that's on me. I honestly didn't think you were criticizing the 7T's if I came off that way.

Greg,
No need to apologize. This hobby is crazy and it's easy to get into arguments about opinions.

crwilli

05-13-2016 12:26 PM

Well done gentlemen. Peace with Honor!

paulphoosreal

05-13-2016 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crwilli (Post 779582)

Well done gentlemen. Peace with Honor!

Well said to all. This forum is what allows us to pick other brains than our own. Speaking for me. I can confuse myself constantly on what I truly want. Thanks you one and all.

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