The CLX Sound
 

I have lived with my CLXes now for over a year. I just got a Stage center to round things out. I have been tweaking my JL f113 sub to better integrate and I am currently seriously considering a second sub and electronic crossover.

As I was warned, one issue with the speakers is that they are particularly unforgiving. Poor recordings just sound terrible. But then great recordings yield some of the best sound I've heard anywhere -the part that I love. It is with what is in between that troubles me. The average recording tends to be on the bright side. This is also true of some television in surround as well. I actually turn down the treble to compensate occasionally. It is the one thing that troubles me about these speakers.

I have all McIntosh gear which is known for its tube-like smoothness and Harmonic Technology cables that are also considered to be on the warmer side. So it is the speakers that appear to be the source of this excessive brightness.

Have others experienced this with CLXes or other Martin Logan speakers? Any suggestions on how I might address this?

Thanks!

I thought the CLX's were a bit bright, also. I found that working on the position and rearward pitch yielded an improvement. I used a pitch of 2.5 degrees (mine are 18' from the prime listening position) and made sure the angle of each was dead on when using the light method of alignment.

As for the Stage, I am seriously considering replacing my Stage with a Paradigm C5. I have come to the conclusion that the Stage is just not a compatible match for the CLX. The CLX and Stage are driven by MC601's.

I sent the following email to Martin Logan, a couple of weeks ago. I have not yet had a reply.

Today, my wife and I, saw the movie Skyfall in a 4k Ultra Theater. this was the first theater experience I have had in 15 years. The impression I left the with was that the Stage is the weak link in my system. The center channel audio in the theater was full, with a depth that my system sorely lacks.

I am going to experiment with increasing the sub woofer cross-over and even changing the system to a phantom center and letting the CLX carry the weight.

A new high-end center channel design should be a high priority.

I should have asked before buying the Stage!

As additional information, what taps on the 501's are you using to drive the CLX? If other than 4 ohm, try that tap. I made a difference for me.

Some info, I have no problems with brightness at all with my CLXs, I play about 1900 lossless cd's. I stream at 44.1 as it sounds more natural to me. Cabling is JPS Aluminata (speaker/interconnect) and Locus Design (digital). I used to have MC 501s myself (I think they are not the problem, I used to use mine on 4ohm taps). I would recommend getting 2 subs (as you can see I use 4) for all the usual reasons to equalize the room, create atmosphere and space with the sound. I listen to TV and movies in 2.1 configuration and prefer not to have a centre. A Stage X is due for release.

So is it true the F113 doesn't have an integrated crossover?

It has a low pass filter, but no high pass filter. It has an "ELT" adjustment to attenuate or raise the signal at 25 H. It has variable relative phase from 0 to 180. To me, that boils down to "No."

I meant no integrated cross-over.

About clx brightness
 

I have the following system:
Martin clxs with some mods
Transparent reference xl mm2 loudspeakers cables
Audioresearch ref 150
Transparent reference mm2 balanced interconnects
Audioresearch ref5se preamplifier
Audioresearch ph8 phonostage
Meridian 800'dvd player
Meridian 861v6 surround processor
Meridian mc200
Vpi classic 3 turntable
Transparent mmx power cords and filters
The clxs are in fact bright when you push too hard, but mostly it is the components that you use with them, they are the most neutral and resolving loudspeakers in world

I love Mac and I love MartinLogan. Had the CLX as a reference speaker for just over three years. (had #005 and #006) I've never liked CLX's paired with McIntosh. Always a very brittle, un-dynamic relatively flat sound.

Try a big pair of Pass Class A amps, a Burmester 911, the CJ Premier 350 and you'll be floored at what you're hearing.

If you're CLX's sound overly bright, you don't have the right setup. One of the most natural sounding speakers I've ever used.

I don’t have CLX’s but have Summit X’s paired with Pass Labs XA160.5’s and they do everything just right! I would definitely say world class reference performance.

Nice combination!

Why, if one is buying speakers in this price range, would you choose something that requires additional speakers and electronics to solve problems? The top of the line Sound Labs do all of this splendidly without additions! Additionally, less than stellar recordings are revealed, but can still be very enjoyable. Before choosing Sound Lab electrostatics, I auditioned many ML products, and passed. I simply do not understand the apparent lack of appreciation of SL "stats" by most AA members!

In my case, finding Sound Lab speakers to audition is a chore.

As for requiring "additional speakers and electronics," the CLXs were designed and built to be used with ML subwoofers. The speakers/subwoofers combination is to be thought of as one system, as opposed to the subwoofers augmenting the speakers.

It may be "thought of as one system" like all ML hybrids, but you still have the problem of all hybrids- the impossibility of achieving the total coherence of ONE driver!

No need to when the sound is right.

agreed Anthony, I also agree with Jeff (Tonepub)with regards to McIntosh / Logan synergy.

Having heard CLX's in Terry Menacker's (Overture) listening room being driven by various amps, Spectral and Pass both bested Mac IMO.

After acquiring my CLX's I moved from a Plinius SA_250 to Mcintosh 501's and initially enjoyed the perceived increase in resolving power. Subsequently I added 2 descenti subs and the clx crossovers and found something lacking. There was a bit of a brittle sound on the one hand and a lack of substance or drive on the other. I p[layed around with different cables and the output taps, but something eluded my expectations.

I then tried the Classe CA-600's in place of the 501's and everything settled down with a more airy top end, more substance in the mids, focused soundstaging (depth) and slightly better control in the bass panel bass (but that was marginal) and not the main area of improvement. I toyed with the idea of Mac 601's, but never tried them and settled on the Classe monoblocks instead.

Most interestingly, with the CA-600's and the CLX's, the small differences in my preamps (CP-600, C1000T, First Sound) are much more discernable than before and it helped me a lot decide which I preferred in the system.

I heard your speakers with a Burmester 082 and it sounded really good!

are the clx a major improvement over summit/vantage?
is the bass enough without subs for a small-ish room?

Yes for both questions!
Marc

without question......

now I have a question.......do you really want to put a superb di-pole speaker in a 'small-ish' room ?? if you can't give then the 'room to breath' (4-5' min behind) why spend that kind of coin ???

So, what are the dimensions of your small-ish room ?

6m x 3m x 5m (whd)
only have .8m from back wall to speaker

yes the room is small for CLX's …….but your distance from the wall is totally unacceptable, at a minimum dbl it ! Regardless you will never realize the speakers potential in that room.

thanks, yes, thought as much.
clx too big for that room. happy with the vantages for now.
maybe in the future.

I started with the Vantage first. I heard the Summits, and had to have them. In 2008 I heard the CLX's in a small room and new one day I would have to have those speakers. They are that good with the proper electronics. I feel no need for any other speaker.

thank you, yes i think i see my inevitable upgrade path....
i love the sound of the vantages, they just work wonderfully with both valves and solid-state. clx must be beautiful!

I prefer ML CLX over ML Odyssey in my small room. Yes, they would perform better in a bigger room, that's for sure but they are performing totally acceptable in 5,2x3,4x2,6m "space".
However distance to front wall need to be optimized. I find 1,3-1,6m optimal when listening position is close to back wall. No need for subwoofer as room response -6dB point is at ~35Hz, unless you want it for movies or organ music. This is in solid concrete building with some acoustic treatments.

I have the CLX and have had for a long time great speaker I am using 4 Decent subs with them. Powering the Clxs with Ayre mono blocks MXRs 20s . Do you need subs no but with DVDs it is nice with some music it adds a lot most of the time it is fine with out them.

Not a easy speaker to set up add subs and not easy becomes hard. You can put some very high end gear up stream and the clxs will not be the weak link in the chain. Like all electrostatics they need power and lots of it, amps that can take low ohm loads and are clean .

As to Sound labs never heard them no dealers I know of they are big very big. People who own them and have the right room love them.

CLXs are more sound than most speakers at this price point will give you IMO not heard them all and my taste may not be yours. If you have heard the CLXs only once the set likely was the biggest pro or con.

Clxs never was as popular as the hybrids price more than sound IMO these are nice speakers not a huge foot print in a big room the clear panels tend to make them blend in some. They sound great I am surprised they did not sell better than they did I think it is ML best effort so far . The new ML super speaker only heard it once I thought the set up needed work not a great room I would want to hear it again. But it is 100 K in Canada any questions just ask.

Room is everthing
 

I had moved several times with my CLX's and find placement, room size etc. as being to some extent might be the issue for you. As for your subs M.L. subs may be the answer.

Just now finding this thread. I too find some recordings pretty bad. But then again most of the music I love and hear more frequently is an out of body experience when played through the ML 13a's. Sounds truly breathtaking. McIntosh MC452 drives my 13as.

I love the body it gives and detail. Not many high end dealers that close to where I live so really have only heard the McIntosh with ML. The MC601's are a tad bit more effortless.

At times yes, the ML 13a's can sound bright when played back loud. But we're taking very very loud. But that can be said for virtually all the speakers I've owned.

Some here love the Mac sound; others don't with ML. YMMV. It's worth looking into perhaps finding a way to get a dealer to let you try an different amp to see.

And most definitely get 2 subs. When I added the powered subs to these ML, it all kind of came together. Now I want more of it :)

Was just at Tim's place with his new setup which includes CLX's and 2-212's. Very very nice setup both soundwise and visually. You just can't beat the looks of those Mac needles swinging back and forth. Nice going TIM!

2 Channel: Bricasti M12 DAC & M28's Mono's Black / Aurender N10 Black / Treatments: RPG BAD ARC panels (F, S, Bass Trap & R walls)
Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Subs tuned w/PBK
Grounding: Nordost QKore 6 (2-M28, 1-N10, 1-M12, 1-QB8, 1-Router) / 8' Earth Ground Rod / Bricasti M12 w/Acoustic Revive RGC-24
Nordost: 5-QV2 & QK1, 2-QX4 / 12-TC Kones, 27-Sort Fut & 28-LIft / O2/V2 Pwr / O2: SC, Digital & XLR's / H2 Network / V2 RCA Sub's
Misc: Mini iPad / Furutech GTX-DNCF / LED lighting / Aurender AMM / Lovan Rack / SR Quantum Blue Fuses & Black Box
Media Rm: ML: 13A's, 2-Descent i's, 6-Vanquish, Focus / Parasound: 3-A23 &1-31 / Entreq SM /65" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM60/ Nordost Tyr 2