Where is the Sweet Spot in the 800 Series

[thughes]

I have been reading in the McIntosh section that the Mc501 is the sweet spot in McIntosh amps.

What is the similar sweet spot in the B&W 800 series speaker lineup?

[Dj_AmTraX]

Hum.... I heard the 800Ds and it's really nice sounding. I think people like McIntosh amp is because its neutral and won't fight against B&W's sound. If you want to sweeten the sound, go for a pair of Cary V12 mono blocks.

[Still-One]

In my opinion the 802d is the sweet spot in the B&W line.

The 801's with that one large woofer is hard to match to many rooms, while the 800d's may sound better than 802d's, but may not be worth the extra cost. The 802d is well made, finished nicely, images very good, has one of the better tweeters on the market, provides solid bass and holds its resale value very well.

[PHC1]

800D. :smoking: Bass difference is night and day in most cases between the 800D and 802D. Anytime I've heard the 802Ds, they sounded bloated. It was like walking in rubber wading boots in mud that was knee deep. The mid/upper bass of the 802Ds would obliterate the mids with the overhang.

Take a look at the visual aid. The 800Ds are on the left. :D

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/MechanixIllustrated/8-1938/med_fisherman_float.jpg

[jdandy]

It was like walking in rubber wading boots in mud that was knee deep.

Serge.......WOW, that bad, uha? :D

[PHC1]

Serge.......WOW, that bad, uha? :D

In most cases, yes. Need a very ballsy amp and lots of positioning flexibility in the room to take some bloat out of the 802Ds and at the end there will still be some residual left. :dunno:

I thought you may like that visual aid Dan. :D

[Still-One]

800D. :smoking: Bass difference is night and day in most cases between the 800D and 802D. Anytime I've heard the 802Ds, they sounded bloated. It was like walking in rubber wading boots in mud that was knee deep. The mid/upper bass of the 802Ds would obliterate the mids with the overhang.

]
Never heard bloated bass on he 802d's driven by a 402 or 501's, nor a Krell FBI, Evo 402 or the EVO 600's. Actually one dealer had them driven by that big Denon 5000 series AV amp. Not bad, but not great.

[PHC1]

Never heard bloated bass on he 802d's driven by a 402 or 501's, nor a Krell FBI, Evo 402 or the EVO 600's. Actually one dealer had them driven by that big Denon 5000 series AV amp. Not bad, but not great.

The Krells wouldn't have too much trouble. The 402 did, the 501s were a little better, the 1201s were better still. If you search around on the net, you will find many have the same experience with various amps. It is not only a ball-buster of a speaker to drive but I suspect is not an optimal design since the 800D is so much better.

[thughes]

I will be moving to the MC 501s and I will be replacing 803ds. It looks like the 801 is out, but the verdict is not in on the 802d and the 800d -- varying opinions -- also about $9000 difference.

[PHC1]

What are your room dimensions and how much flexibility do you have in placing those 802Ds?

[thughes]

I have a fair amount of flexibility in moving them around. The room itself is rather large, a family room-dining area combination.

[PHC1]

Then you may be OK with the 802Ds. Audition just to be sure the bass is to your expectations.

[thughes]

Thanks. First things first. I must get the 501s into the house.

[80B]

What's prompting you to upgrade from the 803D's?

[thughes]

What's prompting you to upgrade from the 803D's?

Is it fair in the response to ask why you have 802ds in the front of your system and 803ds in the rear? Would you be comfortable with 4 803ds instead?

Is there enough difference in the 802d and 803d? Maybe that should have been my original question.

[1KW]

I was trying to decide between the 802d and SF Cremona's. The B&W's are a solid and very heavy speaker to move around, I did like the way they sounded for home theater. For 2 channel though I agree with Serge.

[80B]

Is it fair in the response to ask why you have 802ds in the front of your system and 803ds in the rear? Would you be comfortable with 4 803ds instead?

Is there enough difference in the 802d and 803d? Maybe that should have been my original question.

Absolutely fair - we settled on the 802D because of the bass response vs. the 803D, but really liked both speakers (and other brands besides!). We were going to get the 803S for the rear, but at the last minute decided what the heck, to get the 803D in the rear since they share the diamond tweeter, and it was a relatively affordable increment.

I haven't put the 803Ds in front, and should do that for some a/b comparisons to the 802Ds in this room, and may do so next month when the family goes off for vacation. The 803D's are a bit too tall for the fronts, given the traffic pattern and TV placement. If we ever break up this system, the 803Ds would be a great stereo pair in another room as well (and quite frankly better used since most of our system use is stereo).

[thughes]

If you ever to A/B the two sets in the front, I would be interested in what you find out.

I can see that I would probably do as you did and move the 803ds to the sides, although that room really isn't a multi-channel room. The 803ds may move to the theater room.

Did you decide on the HTMD2 to match the 803Ds?

[TommyC]

Why not go with the top dog 800D? Otherwise you'll always wonder how much better the 800d is going to be.

[80B]

If you ever to A/B the two sets in the front, I would be interested in what you find out.

I can see that I would probably do as you did and move the 803ds to the sides, although that room really isn't a multi-channel room. The 803ds may move to the theater room.

Did you decide on the HTMD2 to match the 803Ds?

Yes, the HTM2D matches up nicely with the 802Ds. My setup pictures are in the 'show us your mac gear' thread on the Mac forum, post #222. As you'll see, the 803Ds are too crowded in back. Will definitely let you know if/when I get around to the a/b'ing.

[thughes]

Why not go with the top dog 800D?

True, but there are about $9000 reasons separating the 802D and the 800D. I will stop at the MC501s, and I'm looking for the similar sweet spot in the 800 line. Of course, the 800D could be the sweet spot.

[dpgstereo]

I have 802D's in a all McIntosh 2 -channel system. System is in my Master bedroom so room dimensions are not ideal. 20' x 30' with 11' ceilings and an attaching 15' x 20' bathroom. Unfortunately I have the speakers playing the short way in the room. Equipment C2200, MVP861, MCD205. MR78,MC1201's.
I had always thought the 802D's were a little light on bass. So I recently added a JL Audio f113 to the mix, thanks Ivan. I first matched phase of the speakers and sub using the Rives II test CD. Then I pulled out the Audio Control RTA for a measurement. I was shocked at what I found. Playing Pink Noise with no effect, the 802D's were 4-6 db low starting at 200Hz. Yes 200Hz.
Anyway, raising the crossover on the JL f113 to its max 130Hz smoothed things out pretty well.
Another supprise was that the "Diamond Tweeter" on the 802D was 2-4db down at 20K. I thought it was suppose to play much higher than that before dropping off. Hey thats what the ad says...

Anyway, you can get a good sound out of the 802D with a little work. If the budget allows, go for the 800D. However MC501's will be a little light weight for them.

And for all the reviews I have read about the 802D being bass heavy. I don't know what they are using as a reference. I have heard them in high-end showroom situations with Mark Levinson 33 mono, room treatments, all the bells and whistles. I alway thought they needed sub. I don't understand how they are considered a full-range speaker.
They are a very accurate speaker but defiantly light on bass output. What can you expect out of two 8" woofers.
In my opinion the reference 800 speaker should include two 12" woofers instead of two 10" woofers. JMO...

[Still-One]

I have 802D's in a all McIntosh 2 -channel system. System is in my Master bedroom so room dimensions are not ideal. 20' x 30' with 11' ceilings and an attaching 15' x 20' bathroom. Unfortunately I have the speakers playing the short way in the room. Equipment C2200, MVP861, MCD205. MR78,MC1201's.
I had always thought the 802D's were a little light on bass. So I recently added a JL Audio f113 to the mix, thanks Ivan. I first matched phase of the speakers and sub using the Rives II test CD. Then I pulled out the Audio Control RTA for a measurement. I was shocked at what I found. Playing Pink Noise with no effect, the 802D's were 4-6 db low starting at 200Hz. Yes 200Hz.

They are a very accurate speaker but defiantly light on bass output. What can you expect out of two 8" woofers.
In my opinion the reference 800 speaker should include two 12" woofers instead of two 10" woofers. JMO...
I am not sure how you have the speakers positioned but I think you have bass suck-out where they are. There is no way 802d's are down 4-6db at 200hz. Heck even our measurement happy friends at Stereophile list them as only one of the handful of full range speakers they have tested, meaning they have bass extension to 20hz. In their tests the 802d's were flat to 30hz.

[dpgstereo]

Surprised me too. Speakers are about 11' apart, around 30 degrees, toe'd in to listening position (center). One speaker is 3' off rear wall, second (due to shape of room) is 10' off rear wall.
Off the side walls around 5'. Room is actually 21' x 17' with attaching 17' x13' (double door opening) bathroom. Plus an opening behind right speaker (built-in tub) 10' x 8'.
Ceilings are 11'.
Carpet floor, tile in bathroom.

[thughes]

I'm not sure how to respond other than to say that it's hard to believe that a Stereophile Class A speaker would have the problems you are describing unless something else were going on.

[dpgstereo]

All I can say is, you can't always believe what you read. If you listen to a pair in a showroom, you'll see what I mean. B&W does make a fine speaker, IMO. Maybe the 801D may play closer to full range. You are not going to get a full 20Hz from an eight inch speaker.
B&W does a lot of advertising in Stereophile Mag.