Changing Tonearms on a VPI ???

[rnrmf1971]

Does anyone know the difficulty in changing tonearms on a VPI Aries 3?

I have the JMW 10.5i tonearm and I've been seriously considering changing it for something else, perhaps a graham phantom.

I can't get an answer from either Graham or a couple of retailers regarding the difficulty of installing the graham on the Aries 3.

I don't want to physically modify the table- and I can't get an answer as to whether this is necessary. I know a different armboard would be needed, at the minimum, which is fine.

Anyone have any ideas???

[Removed]

What do you dislike about the 10.5i arm that makes you want to upgrade?

IMO I would keep the arm and look into upgrading your phono stage first then cartridge......

[rnrmf1971]

What do you dislike about the 10.5i arm that makes you want to upgrade?

IMO I would keep the arm and look into upgrading your phono stage first then cartridge......

In general, I've been conflicted about my experience with the table. On one hand I like the resolution, on the other hand, I feel that when listening to an LP, that the playback quality can vary from when I start the LP, to when the side finishes. This leads me to think my cartridge and/or tonearm set-up is not performing optimally for me. It has me second and third guessing every setup parameter of the arm. I'm thinking I'd like a tonearm that inspires more of my confidence with regard to setup. The anti-skating adjustment of the arm makes me uneasy. I am unable to set it via using a test/set-up LP. As VPI suggests, it seems that when simply using the tonearm wire for anti skate, enough force is provided even if there is no twist in the wire. Yet my ears tell me something is not optimally set up. I am on the verge of an entire new setup or investigating a new tonearm.
I'm bothered that I had more fun playing LP's on my older pioneer PL-707 direct drive turntable with far less expensive cartridges and that it seemed to consistently like the sound better. Okay, the noise floor of the VPI is astronomically lower so I don't know if I could go back to the pioneer. But now I'm even looking at technics 1210's and mods to go back to enjoying my 1200 or 1300 Lp's which are sadly sitting on the shelf.

[Puma Cat]

Yeah, I have an idea.

Get an SME.

[Removed]

In general, I've been conflicted about my experience with the table. On one hand I like the resolution, on the other hand, I feel that when listening to an LP, that the playback quality can vary from when I start the LP, to when the side finishes. This leads me to think my cartridge and/or tonearm set-up is not performing optimally for me. It has me second and third guessing every setup parameter of the arm. I'm thinking I'd like a tonearm that inspires more of my confidence with regard to setup. The anti-skating adjustment of the arm makes me uneasy. I am unable to set it via using a test/set-up LP. As VPI suggests, it seems that when simply using the tonearm wire for anti skate, enough force is provided even if there is no twist in the wire. Yet my ears tell me something is not optimally set up. I am on the verge of an entire new setup or investigating a new tonearm.
I'm bothered that I had more fun playing LP's on my older pioneer PL-707 direct drive turntable with far less expensive cartridges and that it seemed to consistently like the sound better. Okay, the noise floor of the VPI is astronomically lower so I don't know if I could go back to the pioneer. But now I'm even looking at technics 1210's and mods to go back to enjoying my 1200 or 1300 Lp's which are sadly sitting on the shelf.

When you mentioned playback quality changing from the first cut to the middle or last cut this points to alignment issues as you have pretty much figured out......that arm is fairly easy to set up but like any arm you need a good protractor tool. You may want to look into Best Tractor / Arc Protractor / Mint Tractor / tonearm alignment / Yip Mint Protractor / Mintlp Protractor (http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm) I find this to be one of the very best and easy to use.....

[rnrmf1971]

When you mentioned playback quality changing from the first cut to the middle or last cut this points to alignment issues as you have pretty much figured out......that arm is fairly easy to set up but like any arm you need a good protractor tool. You may want to look into Best Tractor / Arc Protractor / Mint Tractor / tonearm alignment / Yip Mint Protractor / Mintlp Protractor (http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm) I find this to be one of the very best and easy to use.....

Jeff, thanks for the suggestion. That looks like a great idea to try. I recently got a Soundsmith Aida, and have yet to really enjoy it. This looks like it might give me better success.
You mention that the JMW is easy to set-up, and I only half agree. The biggest source of frustration for me is the counter weight and how it's seemingly impossible for me to adjust tracking force without screwing up azimuth. Or vice versa. I also got the new Soundsmith azimuth adjustment for the arm which i haven't put to use yet. Perhaps that, along with the Mint protractor, will be of help. Thanks Again.

[Puma Cat]

Jeff, thanks for the suggestion. That looks like a great idea to try. I recently got a Soundsmith Aida, and have yet to really enjoy it. This looks like it might give me better success.
You mention that the JMW is easy to set-up, and I only half agree. The biggest source of frustration for me is the counter weight and how it's seemingly impossible for me to adjust tracking force without screwing up azimuth. Or vice versa. I also got the new Soundsmith azimuth adjustment for the arm which i haven't put to use yet. Perhaps that, along with the Mint protractor, will be of help. Thanks Again.

Get an SME...:D

[rnrmf1971]

Get an SME...:D

LOL, I get the point!
But the question still remains... Is the table suitable for putting on another arm???
SME's sure look nice...

[Puma Cat]

LOL, I get the point!
But the question still remains... Is the table suitable for putting on another arm???
SME's sure look nice...

hee hee! Yes, you can put other arms on VPIs. If you could mount a Phantom, you could mount an SME. If I were you I would look for used SME 309, IV.VI, or best yet, and SME V on Audiogon. They are reknown for their durability, and if you ever saw or used on in-person you would get why people rave about their engineering quality.


The biggest source of frustration for me is the counter weight and how it's seemingly impossible for me to adjust tracking force without screwing up azimuth. Or vice versa.

You won't have those problems on an SME. There is a specific knob that is turned to ajust tracking force, and on an an SME V, it's a separate knob than the counterweight knob. You don't need to worry about azimuth because it is not adjustable. It's not adjustable because it's perfect from the factory.

There's engineering and then there's SME engineering,...

[Tonepub]

Personally, I wouldn't take a VPI apart to put an SME arm on it unless you don't have to do any drilling, etc. Once you do that, your VPI won't be worth much if you decide to sell it someday and almost no one will want a VPI table with an SME arm on it.

The VPI cult is just as strong as McIntosh, Naim or Linn.

If you plan on keeping it FOREVER, consider it. If not, I'd really look elsewhere. There are quite a few tables that will work with SME arms. While they are not necessarily the absolute ultimate in analog, they are awfully good and so easy to set up (repeatedly) that they remain my favorite.

[Puma Cat]

If you plan on keeping it FOREVER, consider it. If not, I'd really look elsewhere. There are quite a few tables that will work with SME arms. While they are not necessarily the absolute ultimate in analog, they are awfully good and so easy to set up (repeatedly) that they remain my favorite.

This is actually very good advice. If you're open to getting another table, Michell Gyro SEs, and well as Oracles, and of course, SME's own tables work really very well with SME arms.

Another thought is to just get a Rega P9 and call it a day, right, Jeff?

[rnrmf1971]

Thanks for all the input. I'm not at all tied to the table, but on the whole, I do like the platform - just not the tonearm as much. If fitting another tonearm is a drop in replacement, that's what I would try first. But there doesn't seem to be much info out there about replacing tonearms on VPI tables. Modifications to the table are out of the question, for the reasons mentioned.

I just thought I'd check and see if anybody knew anything specific that I may have missed in searching the internet.

But I'm seriously considering other tables, too...

[rnrmf1971]

Personally, I wouldn't take a VPI apart to put an SME arm on it unless you don't have to do any drilling, etc. Once you do that, your VPI won't be worth much if you decide to sell it someday and almost no one will want a VPI table with an SME arm on it.
The VPI cult is just as strong as McIntosh, Naim or Linn.
If you plan on keeping it FOREVER, consider it. If not, I'd really look elsewhere. There are quite a few tables that will work with SME arms. While they are not necessarily the absolute ultimate in analog, they are awfully good and so easy to set up (repeatedly) that they remain my favorite.

Jeff, In your opinion, where does a tricked out Technics table with an SME arm sit in comparison to an Aries 3 stock setup with the 10.5i?
Your review makes the Technics table sound really appealing once modified.
And I have a SL-1210M5G new in the box that I have the option of returning. But I got it for a great price by 2010 standards. I really like the finish on the 1210M5G table so I'm hanging on to it while I decide...

[rnrmf1971]

This is actually very good advice. If you're open to getting another table, Michell Gyro SEs, and well as Oracles, and of course, SME's own tables work really very well with SME arms.

Another thought is to just get a Rega P9 and call it a day, right, Jeff?

VPI is going to make me an SME armboard....!

[Puma Cat]

VPI is going to make me an SME armboard....!

Cool! :thumbsup:

[Tonepub]

Jeff, In your opinion, where does a tricked out Technics table with an SME arm sit in comparison to an Aries 3 stock setup with the 10.5i?
Your review makes the Technics table sound really appealing once modified.
And I have a SL-1210M5G new in the box that I have the option of returning. But I got it for a great price by 2010 standards. I really like the finish on the 1210M5G table so I'm hanging on to it while I decide...

I don't know if I can be completely objective as I'm just not a VPI fan. The 1210 once modded is certainly as good as the Scoutmaster, which comes in around 2500. I have compared those two side by side. To the best of my knowledge, the Aries is a step up from the Scoutmaster correct?

If you can find a great deal on an SME 309 and you already have the technics, you can put together an awfully nice combo for reasonable money.

Hey, if you decide to get rid of the Technics, would you PM me? Need some cables, etc etc? I just found another 309 and I'd love to do another 1200...

[rnrmf1971]

I don't know if I can be completely objective as I'm just not a VPI fan. The 1210 once modded is certainly as good as the Scoutmaster, which comes in around 2500. I have compared those two side by side. To the best of my knowledge, the Aries is a step up from the Scoutmaster correct?

If you can find a great deal on an SME 309 and you already have the technics, you can put together an awfully nice combo for reasonable money.

Hey, if you decide to get rid of the Technics, would you PM me? Need some cables, etc etc? I just found another 309 and I'd love to do another 1200...

Yes, the Aries 3 is a step up from the normal Scoutmaster. I'm not so sure I'm a VPI fan either. I haven't heard enough hi-end, modern turntables to make that assessment. But I do find something missing, and whether it's turntable or tonearm related is still to be seen. But I haven't found my VPI involving for some reason, in my system.

As a platform, I think it can have potential. The TT plinth on the Aries is a high mass 3 layer acrylic/aluminum/acrylic affair similar to their top end HRX table, and it has a number of paths to further upgrade the table. That said, the costs of doing so are roughly equal to the cost of doing all the mods to the Technics table, which you and others have detailed as being very capable and enjoyable.

It's most likely that I'll being going ahead with the Technics mods, as I understand that Sound Hi Fi has both a new bearing and a new platter on the way very soon. I've wondered why someone didn't have a platter upgrade for some time. The platter resonance has long been a critical area on the table. So it's about time for a higher mass, non-resonant platter to come along. Those changes, along with the power supply and tonearm should make for a very enjoyable DD turntable.

But since it looks like I'm going down the path of an SME tonearm, it's probably worth putting it on my Aries 3 to see where it takes me. I think I may do that while waiting on the new Sound Hi Fi mods to be released.

But if things change, I'll be happy to PM you!

[Puma Cat]

Yes, the Aries 3 is a step up from the normal Scoutmaster. I'm not so sure I'm a VPI fan either. I haven't heard enough hi-end, modern turntables to make that assessment. But I do find something missing, and whether it's turntable or tonearm related is still to be seen. But I haven't found my VPI involving for some reason, in my system.

As a platform, I think it can have potential. The TT plinth on the Aries is a high mass 3 layer acrylic/aluminum/acrylic affair similar to their top end HRX tab.

I haven't heard the VPI Classic, but the VPIs that I've heard, the Scout and Scoutmaster haven't made me a fan, either. I'd much rather have a Clearaudio Concept or a Rega (or my Michell, of course).