View Full Version : New Yggy or Primaluna DAC?
Looking for opinions a new Yggy or the new Primaluna Evo 100. Beyond the obvious R-2R vs DS chip difference, has anyone had a chance to hear both or do a side by side. Considering selling my McIntosh D100 dac and looking for options. I’ve loved my Mac but it’s time for a change. My domestic budget manager isn’t convinced you can improve much on the D100 ... she loves all things Mac :)
Looking for opinions a new Yggy or the new Primaluna Evo 100. Beyond the obvious R-2R vs DS chip difference, has anyone had a chance to hear both or do a side by side. Considering selling my McIntosh D100 dac and looking for options. I’ve loved my Mac but it’s time for a change. My domestic budget manager isn’t convinced you can improve much on the D100 ... she loves all things Mac :)
I would love to hear about the same comparison. I’ve perused the PrimaLuna tube DAC webpage. The only negative I can see is that the clock tube is soldered onto the PCB itself. Given the lifespan of even 5-7 years or less depending on the actual usage, what happens when the Russian sourced clock tube needs replacement? Send the whole unit back to PrimaLuna? I can easily take it apart and solder in a new tube but not everyone can or will want to do that. That remains an issue in my mind but I have nor reached out to PrimaLuna to ask that question.
I can speak to the YggY dac myself as can others, it is a very organic and natural sounding DAC but I have not heard the PL tube DAC. :no:
kubla36
07-01-2019, 05:21 PM
Looking for opinions a new Yggy or the new Primaluna Evo 100. Beyond the obvious R-2R vs DS chip difference, has anyone had a chance to hear both or do a side by side. Considering selling my McIntosh D100 dac and looking for options. I’ve loved my Mac but it’s time for a change. My domestic budget manager isn’t convinced you can improve much on the D100 ... she loves all things Mac :)
Had a D100 and went to a C2600 (couldn’t pin improvement on DAC because I went to the tube preamp at the same time), then Gumby (improvement IMHO, but I like R2R), then Yggy A2.
Puma Cat
07-01-2019, 05:37 PM
Yggy, no question.
As Serge points out, its upgradeable, and sometime in the reasonably near future, Schiit may upgrade the USB receiver once again.
I would love to hear about the same comparison. I’ve perused the PrimaLuna tube DAC webpage. The only negative I can see is that the clock tube is soldered onto the PCB itself. Given the lifespan of even 5-7 years or less depending on the actual usage, what happens when the Russian sourced clock tube needs replacement? Send the whole unit back to PrimaLuna? I can easily take it apart and solder in a new tube but not everyone can or will want to do that. That remains an issue in my mind but I have nor reached out to PrimaLuna to ask that question.
I can speak to the YggY dac myself as can others, it is a very organic and natural sounding DAC but I have not heard the PL tube DAC. :no:
I’ve had the same question. The UA folks told me it would be about a 10 year lifespan if you listen an hour or two a day on average. Replacement would be non-trivial.
On a side note, the clock tube is supposedly specifically designed for that purpose. Thanks Serge.
Had a D100 and went to a C2600 (couldn’t pin improvement on DAC because I went to the tube preamp at the same time), then Gumby (improvement IMHO, but I like R2R), then Yggy A2.
What did you think about improvement going from Gumby to Yggy? Thanks.
Yggy, no question.
As Serge points out, its upgradeable, and sometime in the reasonably near future, Schiit may upgrade the USB receiver once again.
Totally agree ... upgradeabily is a huge plus for digital. Thanks.
kaarmstrong
07-01-2019, 10:33 PM
Yggy, no question.
As Serge points out, its upgradeable, and sometime in the reasonably near future, Schiit may upgrade the USB receiver once again.Have you heard the Primaluna DAC?
kubla36
07-02-2019, 12:34 AM
What did you think about improvement going from Gumby to Yggy? Thanks.
I thought it worthwhile (and wrote on a thread here in more detail). Took a long time to fully break in. Deeper stage, clearer, more refined. Gumby could be more forgiving.
bachrocks
07-02-2019, 04:04 AM
Great topic, JWH. I was wondering the same thing. Especially, I am curious about how these two dacs would sound with the Primaluna EVO 400 amp and preamp. I love the sound of tubes, but having a tube dac alongside a tube amp amd preamp might be too much of a good thing.
ron
I've heard the Primaluna Dac in an all Primaluna system with Dynaudio speakers and it sounded amazing. Still can't get a loaner because the only Prima dealer in my area sells them as soon as he gets them. I bought my Yiggi without hearing it and it sounds good in my bedroom rig At Audio Science Review they didn't like the 2399 Yiggi so if you decide on Yiggi get the most recently update version which costs 2999. The Primaluna is by far the coolest looking Dac I've seen. I want to match it with an all Tube Mcintosh system. MC275 V6, and C2200.
bachrocks
07-02-2019, 11:58 AM
JBT, we are somehow on the same wavelength of thoughts. Of course, having previously owned a MC 275 and C2300, I wondered about the difference between Mcintosh and Primaluna. In my case, after my wife died, I sold everything thing audio for a dime, as I thought I could never enjoy music again, but to my surprise, I just needed time to grieve. Now, more and more, music fills my days, and I find myself constantly planning my next system. My hope is that somehow Primaluna bests Mac, so in that way, I can upgrade my sound and avoid previous associations with unpleasant memories.
ron
The thing about PL that draws me is the tube regulation and rectification. Audio Research’s Ref series preamps do this as well as their Ref CD player. I currently own AR LS-27 pre and Mac MC275 VI amp and it sounds great but both use SS power supply. Nothing wrong there, just wonder how much better they might be with tube power supply.
The thing about PL that draws me is the tube regulation and rectification. Audio Research’s Ref series preamps do this as well as their Ref CD player. I currently own AR LS-27 pre and Mac MC275 VI amp and it sounds great but both use SS power supply. Nothing wrong there, just wonder how much better they might be with tube power supply.
It is all counter-intuitive with tube rectification. Seems the simple job of converting AC to DC should not matter much between tube and SS rectification. That couldn't be further from the truth. Tube gear does sound quite different with different tube rectification and certainly sounds different from SS rectification. Among the guitar players that rely on amps for playback, this tube vs SS rectification is a known variable and often discussed topic. :yes: It is no different for high end audio components.
In a nutshell,
You want fast, punchy, articulate, and accurate dynamics type of sound? Then you want SS rectification which is fast, does not sag and has little internal resistance.
You want a slightly more bottom end saggy, bloomy and lush type of sound, tube rectification will deliver. It has more internal resistance and can't quite keep up with dynamics without altering the response a bit from the sag.
Low frequency notes take more current through the power tubes to reproduce. This increased current causes a voltage drop in the rectifier tube and the amp loses power. So, when more power is actually needed, the amp gives less.
The above applies to amplifiers with loads. How any of this applies to components with less of a load such as preamps and digital is less clear but noticeable none the less. What holds true for amplifiers, seems to follow in other components but perhaps with a less noticeable or drastic effect.
I love Tube rectification, for whatever reason that sounds the most musical and pleasing to my ears and unfortunately the really good rectifiers (I use them only in headphone amps) are really NOT cheap. :no:
Good stuff Serge. I’ve read similar comments from other folks especially your sounds more natural comment.
My understanding is that PL offer a 30-day trial... may be the only way to put this to rest :scratch2:
Wes
Good stuff Serge. I’ve read similar comments from other folks especially your sounds more natural comment.
My understanding is that PL offer a 30-day trial... may be the only way to put this to rest :scratch2:
As does Schiit for 15 days minus a 5% restocking fee I believe. You could have a shootout to be sure. :music:
As does Schiit for 15 days minus a 5% restocking fee I believe. You could have a shootout to be sure. :music:
:tresbon:
audio bill
07-02-2019, 03:02 PM
... At Audio Science Review they didn't like the 2399 Yiggi so if you decide on Yiggi get the most recently update version which costs 2999.
The administrator of the ASR forum apparently has on ongoing bias against anything from Schiit Audio, so I wouldn't give too much consideration to their negative comments on the Yggdrasil DAC. :scratch2: I haven't seen anything about a version of the Yggy going for $2,999, their website still shows the current version at $2,399 which already includes their Analog 2 outputs. I'd be curious to know where you heard about this new $2,999 version and any details about the changes it incorporates. I've heard that they're working on an all new USB implementation that is claimed to be revolutionary, but don't think it's yet available. Thanks in advance for sharing what you know! :music:
The administrator of the ASR forum apparently has on ongoing bias against anything from Schiit Audio, so I wouldn't give too much consideration to their negative comments on the Yggdrasil DAC. :scratch2: I haven't seen anything about a version of the Yggy going for $2,999, their website still shows the current version at $2,399 which already includes their Analog 2 outputs. I'd be curious to know where you heard about this new $2,999 version and any details about the changes it incorporates. I've heard that they're working on an all new USB implementation that is claimed to be revolutionary, but don't think it's yet available. Thanks in advance for sharing what you know! :music:
I know about the bias charge against Schitt audio. Couple different forums filled with angry Schitt owner trashing the guy. :banana: I'm not an engineer so I don't have any idea. I haven't seen any evidence Amir at Audio Science is a fraud or doesn't know what he's talking about. It is what it is.
JBT, we are somehow on the same wavelength of thoughts. Of course, having previously owned a MC 275 and C2300, I wondered about the difference between Mcintosh and Primaluna. In my case, after my wife died, I sold everything thing audio for a dime, as I thought I could never enjoy music again, but to my surprise, I just needed time to grieve. Now, more and more, music fills my days, and I find myself constantly planning my next system. My hope is that somehow Primaluna bests Mac, so in that way, I can upgrade my sound and avoid previous associations with unpleasant memories.
ron
Music is one of the great joys in my life and my Mcintosh MC275 v6 and c2200 is a very magical sounding system. Beautiful. Primaluna builds really high quality products and is cheaper than McIntosh. I heard the all new Primaluna EVO line when I auditioned the DAC. Great sounding system and it didn't have any problems driving the Dynaudio speakers.
Ron, it's good that you're enjoying music again!
Puma Cat
07-02-2019, 06:13 PM
I know about the bias charge against Schitt audio. Couple different forums filled with angry Schitt owner trashing the guy. :banana: I'm not an engineer so I don't have any idea. I haven't seen any evidence Amir at Audio Science is a fraud or doesn't know what he's talking about. It is what it is.
I think its safe to say that because the experience of listening to music is perceptual, not an absolute (nor usually "measurable"),as a result, it will be highly subjective, and always will be. Some folks love gear that will literally drive me out of the room, other folks' sensibilities are more aligned with mine. How does one account for one person liking the sound of a Stradivarius more than a Guanerius, or the playing of Glenn Gould vs. Vladimir Ashkenazy? You can't, but you know what you like when you hear it...
I'm very much aligned with John Darko's sensibiities about all this. At the end of the day, it only matters what YOU like, in your room with your specific musical content, preferences, and sensbilities.
Personally, with companies now offering in-home evaluations and the ability to return products that just may not "work" for our respective tastes or sensibilities, I've taken to doing in-home evaluations to find out where I want to end up.
We live in a time where we have an "embarassment of riches"; its "all good", just good in different ways for different folks...
JBT, we are somehow on the same wavelength of thoughts. Of course, having previously owned a MC 275 and C2300, I wondered about the difference between Mcintosh and Primaluna. In my case, after my wife died, I sold everything thing audio for a dime, as I thought I could never enjoy music again, but to my surprise, I just needed time to grieve. Now, more and more, music fills my days, and I find myself constantly planning my next system. My hope is that somehow Primaluna bests Mac, so in that way, I can upgrade my sound and avoid previous associations with unpleasant memories.
ron
Sorry for your loss Ron. Had a close call with my wife last year (29 years married) and I can’t imagine the grief. I hope you find a great new system and create great new memories.
Wes
I know about the bias charge against Schitt audio. Couple different forums filled with angry Schitt owner trashing the guy. :banana: I'm not an engineer so I don't have any idea. I haven't seen any evidence Amir at Audio Science is a fraud or doesn't know what he's talking about. It is what it is.
Folks that like to measure “things” can’t help but to be biased if something looks out of the norm. It’s human nature. No amount of listening can convince otherwise nor dispel the seed that has been planted. :no: If one was to simply listen and forget about the slightly odd measurement or two, one would realize that Yggy sounds extremely organic and natural without ever stepping out into harsh or sterile side of things. Can all DACs make that claim? I think not. :smoking:
The administrator of the ASR forum apparently has on ongoing bias against anything from Schiit Audio, so I wouldn't give too much consideration to their negative comments on the Yggdrasil DAC. :scratch2: I haven't seen anything about a version of the Yggy going for $2,999, their website still shows the current version at $2,399 which already includes their Analog 2 outputs. I'd be curious to know where you heard about this new $2,999 version and any details about the changes it incorporates. I've heard that they're working on an all new USB implementation that is claimed to be revolutionary, but don't think it's yet available. Thanks in advance for sharing what you know! :music:
Bill, did you know that the guy behind Audio Science won an Emmy Award for his work in TV and audio... back in 2006/7 I just read it on another forum full of people trashing him. I suspect he's pretty legit!
Like any review, a positive or negative from Amir at ASR shouldn’t overly influence your buying decision. It should be used only as one of many inputs to the selection process.
I have no reason to doubt the efficacy of Amir’s measurements. My only beef is that he uses a standard ASIO driver for all his DAC measurements instead of the manufacturer recommended drivers. What this does to the sound quality I don’t know.
What I have found by owning two products Amir has reviewed extensively is that I prefer the sound of the DAC that measures poorly, (Yggdrasil) over the DAC with impeccable measurements, (Topping D50).
Like any review, a positive or negative from Amir at ASR shouldn’t overly influence your buying decision. It should be used only as one of many inputs to the selection process.
I have no reason to doubt the efficacy of Amir’s measurements. My only beef is that he uses a standard ASIO driver for all his DAC measurements instead of the manufacturer recommended drivers. What this does to the sound quality I don’t know.
What I have found by owning two products Amir has reviewed extensively is that I prefer the sound of the DAC that measures poorly, (Yggdrasil) over the DAC with impeccable measurements, (Topping D50).
I agree After reading through several hundred angry posts someone finally posted this
https://www.linkedin.com/in/amir-majidimehr-0014a75/
Puma Cat
07-02-2019, 08:00 PM
Like any review, a positive or negative from Amir at ASR shouldn’t overly influence your buying decision. It should be used only as one of many inputs to the selection process.
I have no reason to doubt the efficacy of Amir’s measurements. My only beef is that he uses a standard ASIO driver for all his DAC measurements instead of the manufacturer recommended drivers. What this does to the sound quality I don’t know.
What I have found by owning two products Amir has reviewed extensively is that I prefer the sound of the DAC that measures poorly, (Yggdrasil) over the DAC with impeccable measurements, (Topping D50).
The issue(s) I have with Amir's approach is that he does things like a University-trained scientist: only doing OFAT when, instead, he should be doing DOE. He reminds me of the biochem professor in a graduate Protein Biochemistry I audited who unequivocally stated that only proteins could catalyze a biochemical reaction; he was indignant when I asked if RNAs could catalyze biochemical reactions.
6 years later, Thomas Cech won the Nobel Prize for his discovery of...catalytic RNAs.
"There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy."- William Shakespeare, Hamlet
audio bill
07-02-2019, 08:18 PM
Bill, did you know that the guy behind Audio Science won an Emmy Award for his work in TV and audio... back in 2006/7 I just read it on another forum full of people trashing him. I suspect he's pretty legit!
That's a great accomplishment, but in my opinion he's far too objectively obsessed with his evaluations. High end audio is very subjective by nature, and even as an EE myself I realize that measurements alone do not entirely define the ultimate sound quality of a component under test.
rrwwss52
07-02-2019, 11:59 PM
Hard to go wrong with a Yggy. Great sound at a great price.
I think as of now, I lean towards the Yggdrasil for the R-2R approach. Would be great to hear the PL though... I’m checking the dealer network for PL to see what kind of drive I’d be in for.
Turns out neither dealer nearest me (2 hours & 2.5 hours to Charlotte & Atlanta respectively) have a demo of the Evo 100. Atlanta may have theirs within a week or so. We shall see.
bachrocks
07-04-2019, 10:02 AM
Serge, your information about tube rectification is awesome. Thank you.
JBT, can you in any way describe the difference in sound between your Mac system and the PL you listened to? Of course, I understand you did not compare the two in a controlled context, but maybe you could say whether you’d be happy replacing your beloved Macintosh 275 and 2200 with Primaluna 400s. And thanks for your kind comment about enjoying music. Ha ha ha, as I’ve only got an Astell&Kern AK120 filled with Hires files and Sennheiser HD650 headphones, I feel I only listen to music, not really enjoy it ha ha ha. But someday, I will have a beautiful system again.
Wes, thank you so much for your thoughts. And I’m so happy to hear that you and your wife continue to be living what I imagine is a very beautiful life together!
Puma Cat, your biochemistry story is funny. It reminded me of my college days. As a second year chemistry student, I wanted to take an honors section of second semester organic chemistry lab, which replaced traditional lab class with an internship in a professor’s reserch lab. I wanted to work with Dr. Taber, but he said my grades weren’t good enough. I should ask Dr. Heck, an older professor approaching retirement ha ha ha. This was in 1982. Decades later, in 2010, when I was working in Korea, I opened up Yahoo news and discovered Dr. Heck had been given the Nobel Prize for his work on Palladium-catalyzed reactions. Ha ha ha, my friends said that he would have gotten the prize decades earlier if I had not worked in his lab.
ron
Serge, your information about tube rectification is awesome. Thank you.
JBT, can you in any way describe the difference in sound between your Mac system and the PL you listened to? Of course, I understand you did not compare the two in a controlled context, but maybe you could say whether you’d be happy replacing your beloved Macintosh 275 and 2200 with Primaluna 400s. And thanks for your kind comment about enjoying music. Ha ha ha, as I’ve only got an Astell&Kern AK120 filled with Hires files and Sennheiser HD650 headphones, I feel I only listen to music, not really enjoy it ha ha ha. But someday, I will have a beautiful system again.
Wes, thank you so much for your thoughts. And I’m so happy to hear that you and your wife continue to be living what I imagine is a very beautiful life together!
Puma Cat, your biochemistry story is funny. It reminded me of my college days. As a second year chemistry student, I wanted to take an honors section of second semester organic chemistry lab, which replaced traditional lab class with an internship in a professor’s reserch lab. I wanted to work with Dr. Taber, but he said my grades weren’t good enough. I should ask Dr. Heck, an older professor approaching retirement ha ha ha. This was in 1982. Decades later, in 2010, when I was working in Korea, I opened up Yahoo news and discovered Dr. Heck had been given the Nobel Prize for his work on Palladium-catalyzed reactions. Ha ha ha, my friends said that he would have gotten the prize decades earlier if I had not worked in his lab.
ron
Ron, I really couldn't describe the difference after only a 30 minute session with the all Prima Luna system. I wouldn't replace my Mcintosh system with an all Primaluna system. Not because it didn't sound as good, but I've had the 275v6 and c2200 for years. If I was starting over I would consider going with Primaluna. You can get the Evo 400 integrated amp for 5 thousand and the Dac for 3. Great system and much cheaper than Mcintosh. The system I headr sounded amazing. The only thing that worries me about the DAC is the Tube clock is solder in so when the tube goes bad most people would have to send it back to the dealer or designated repair shop to get a new one installed
Good luck with your decision and it's great that you're enjoying music again!
bachrocks
07-12-2019, 06:13 AM
JBT, thank you very much for your helpful comments. I will seriously consider Primaluna when I put together my next audio system. Hearing someone with great tube gear from McIntosh praise Primaluna so is the most valuable and trustworthy review for me.
:thankyouspin:
So a follow-up to the question on the Pl Evo 100 Dac. I traded emails with the US distributor about the clock tube. The reply came back that the tube will last the life of the unit. In the off chance that the tube failed, it would have to be replaced by a certified technician. I was told before by a dealer that it would last about 10 years, but the US distributor said that it should last for the life of the unit. I suppose if you could buy a back up tube inexpensively, any competent electronics technician could make the swap. I’m intrigued... again.
So a follow-up to the question on the Pl Evo 100 Dac. I traded emails with the US distributor about the clock tube. The reply came back that the tube will last the life of the unit. In the off chance that the tube failed, it would have to be replaced by a certified technician. I was told before by a dealer that it would last about 10 years, but the US distributor said that it should last for the life of the unit. I suppose if you could buy a back up tube inexpensively, any competent electronics technician could make the swap. I’m intrigued... again.
When I called Upscale Audio that's what they told me too. Still waiting on my Dealer to get a showroom model I can take home for a couple days to see how it sounds in a Mcintosh system before I order
Another review on the Evo 100. Not sure what language it's in so I'm only going to translate the conclusion
The last word
With the PrimaLuna EvoLution EVO 100 DAC, technology is quickly forgotten and the emphasis shifts to play and music. As it should be and what not every DAC can meet, regardless of the price range. Sometimes technology has the upper hand and offering options such as various filters, DSD, MQA, analogue inputs, volume control, etc. has a higher priority, in order to impress the volatile or less well-known buyer. That is something that no PrimaLuna has been seduced into. It is music, music and more music that matters. The EvoLution EVO 100 DAC has been playing with great pleasure for many hours. As I am used to from a brand like PrimaLuna without any failures and knowing the reputation, it will stay that way for years to come.
The EvoLution EVO 100 DAC can, in my opinion, play in the main class and will certainly be a welcome addition to the set for owners of PrimaLuna amplifiers. For everyone else, the EvoLution EVO 100 DAC may be the first PrimaLuna product in the house, with this display quality certainly not the last. And it may be the only device that has tubes in it, a tube amplifier next to it may be very nice, but it is not really necessary.
https://www.hifi.nl/artikel/28052/Review-PrimaLuna-EvoLution-EVO-100-Tube-Digital-Analogue-Converter.html
Nice, that appears to be Dutch. Makes sense, I think their main design engineer is Dutch. My nearest dealer wasn’t sure when they would have a demo in but I would like to try the same thing as you. Get it home and give it a listen. I wonder if all the dealer network offer the same 30 day moneyback guarantee as Upscale Audio. According to their website there’s no restocking fee on PrimaLuna products.
Nice, that appears to be Dutch. Makes sense, I think their main design engineer is Dutch. My nearest dealer wasn’t sure when they would have a demo in but I would like to try the same thing as you. Get it home and give it a listen. I wonder if all the dealer network offer the same 30 day moneyback guarantee as Upscale Audio. According to their website there’s no restocking fee on PrimaLuna products.
I suspect the dealers will honor Upscale Audio's 30 days money back on new Products.
Nice, that appears to be Dutch. Makes sense, I think their main design engineer is Dutch. My nearest dealer wasn’t sure when they would have a demo in but I would like to try the same thing as you. Get it home and give it a listen. I wonder if all the dealer network offer the same 30 day moneyback guarantee as Upscale Audio. According to their website there’s no restocking fee on PrimaLuna products.
ON another forum I read a member had a dealer do a shootout with the PrimaLuna Dac and the PS Direct Stream Dac and he liked the Luna Dac better. More analogue sounding to him. Thought the Direct Stream is the warmer sounding of the two which surprised him because the Luna has tubes.
ON another forum I read a member had a dealer do a shootout with the PrimaLuna Dac and the PS Direct Stream Dac and he liked the Luna Dac better. More analogue sounding to him. Thought the Direct Stream is the warmer sounding of the two which surprised him because the Luna has tubes.
Interesting, I'm going for a listen as soon as my nearest dealer gets one in ... he's only 2 hours away. :)
Interesting, I'm going for a listen as soon as my nearest dealer gets one in ... he's only 2 hours away. :)
I'm about ready to give up hope on being able to take home a loner for the weekend and just order one.
Another nice review of the Prima Luna DAC
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-928&lang=en
JBT
An alternative to the PrimaLuna if you have the urge to try out a tube based DAC is the Musical Paradise MP-D2 Mk. III for a lot less money. It uses the AKM 4497 chipset and allows you to use either 6 volt or 12 volt signal tube and either 5 volt or 6 volt rectifier tubes with the flip of a switch on the mother board. In addition if so inclined you can "roll" capacitors. Plus the price is about half that of the PrimaLuna. It is easily "tuneable" by changing the tube combinations. I have owned the original version with the AKM 4490 chipset for about three years and it's sound resembles the reviews of the PrimaLuna.
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97
JBT
An alternative to the PrimaLuna if you have the urge to try out a tube based DAC is the Musical Paradise MP-D2 Mk. III for a lot less money. It uses the AKM 4497 chipset and allows you to use either 6 volt or 12 volt signal tube and either 5 volt or 6 volt rectifier tubes with the flip of a switch on the mother board. In addition if so inclined you can "roll" capacitors. Plus the price is about half that of the PrimaLuna. It is easily "tuneable" by changing the tube combinations. I have owned the original version with the AKM 4490 chipset for about three years and it's sound resembles the reviews of the PrimaLuna.
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97
Thanks for the info!
Another nice review of the Prima Luna DAC
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-928&lang=en
JBT - thanks for the review link. I hadn't seen that one ... you have a future as a detective. :thumbsup:
At this point I'm leaning to the Schiit primarily because:
* R-2R dac chip
* Future upgradeability
* Balanced output
We'll see. I'm taking the wife to Ireland so I'll likely delay my decision until the fall. If you bite the bullet and buy the PL, keep us posted.
Wes
Puma Cat
08-12-2019, 01:49 PM
JBT - thanks for the review link. I hadn't seen that one ... you have a future as a detective. :thumbsup:
At this point I'm leaning to the Schiit primarily because:
* R-2R dac chip
* Future upgradeability
* Balanced output
We'll see. I'm taking the wife to Ireland so I'll likely delay my decision until the fall. If you bite the bullet and buy the PL, keep us posted.
Wes
And then there's the 5 year warranty.
I think there's going to be a major USB upgrade at some in the reasonably near future, as well.
It will be interesting to see a few more reviews of the PL. It’s a little bit idiosyncratic. Their marketing materials highlight tube rectification and point to point wiring.
“You spend a lot of money on interconnects. So why have the signal go right from the RCA jacks or speaker terminals into circuit boards with copper traces so thin you can hardly see them? What’s high-end about that?”
I’m calling BS on that because the signal path starts at the D/A converter and it is on a printed wiring board with copper traces so thin you can hardly see them.
The proof is of course in the listening. It’s a delta sigma D/A. I’ve got three of them and prefer the sound of my R2R D/A to the delta sigma DAC’s I own.
It’s a beautiful looking unit and their other gear is well regarded by people that own it. I’d like to listen to one sometime.
Tom
I'm picking up an EvO 100 Dac tomorrow morning. Gave up waiting on a Demo I could take home and just decided to pull the trigger. Mcintosh MC275 v6. Mcintosh c2200 Evo tube Dac and Dynaudio speakers.
jzzmusician
09-23-2019, 09:04 PM
I'm really looking forward to your impressions!
Been running the EVO 100 Tube Dac for a couple hours now. Easy to setup. My 1100 Sq Ft Game Room has a concrete floor, Rock Walls, Rock columns ceiling to floor, knotty Alder Wood Ceilings and big Cedar Beams running the entire length and width of the ceiling. Needless to say the acoustics are not very good. That aside the first thing I noticed right out of the box is how deep the base sounds. Vocals are amazing. The big test for me has always been piano music. On many Dacs I've heard over the years high notes tend to expose digital glare. EVO 100 passed with flying colors. Right now I'm listening to subscription internet radio stations via Sonos. Radio Tunes and Calm Radio. I plan add a Lumin U1 mini streamer to the mix.
If you like a Warm Lush Anologue sound the Evo 100 will provide it. It's a great looking Dac and goes well with the C2200 and MC275 v6.:thumbsup::thumbsup::banana:
I'm not very good at posting pics, but I'll try later tonight.
https://www.audioaficionado.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=60041&d=1569369302
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60041
jdandy
09-24-2019, 09:28 PM
Jim.......Congratulations on your new PrimaLuna EVO 100 DAC. Looks great with your gear. Don't forget to update your signature.
zonto
09-25-2019, 05:33 PM
And then there's the 5 year warranty.
I think there's going to be a major USB upgrade at some in the reasonably near future, as well.
Unison USB is out for Bifrost 2, and Schiit is planning to make it available for Gungnir and Yggdrasil in January 2020 (coinciding with the end-of-life for Windows 7).
Puma Cat
09-25-2019, 05:52 PM
Unison USB is out for Bifrost 2, and Schiit is planning to make it available for Gungnir and Yggdrasil in January 2020 (coinciding with the end-of-life for Windows 7).
Thanks, Zonto. I for one will be looking forward to the Unison upgrade for Gumby.
Been running the EVO 100 Tube Dac for a couple hours now. Easy to setup. My 1100 Sq Ft Game Room has a concrete floor, Rock Walls, Rock columns ceiling to floor, knotty Alder Wood Ceilings and big Cedar Beams running the entire length and width of the ceiling. Needless to say the acoustics are not very good. That aside the first thing I noticed right out of the box is how deep the base sounds. Vocals are amazing. The big test for me has always been piano music. On many Dacs I've heard over the years high notes tend to expose digital glare. EVO 100 passed with flying colors. Right now I'm listening to subscription internet radio stations via Sonos. Radio Tunes and Calm Radio. I plan add a Lumin U1 mini streamer to the mix.
If you like a Warm Lush Anologue sound the Evo 100 will provide it. It's a great looking Dac and goes well with the C2200 and MC275 v6.:thumbsup::thumbsup::banana:
I'm not very good at posting pics, but I'll try later tonight.
JBT, we just returned from vaction and what do I see... you pulled the trigger. Congrats, hope you enjoy it. Any plans to put into your main system and some A-B comparisons? BTW, I also have MC275 MkVI but mine is paired with ARC LS-27 pre & Vandersteen Treos. I for one would love to hear your review with the Evo in your main system.
Wes
Jim.......Congratulations on your new PrimaLuna EVO 100 DAC. Looks great with your gear. Don't forget to update your signature.
Thanks Dan. Amazing system!
JBT, we just returned from vaction and what do I see... you pulled the trigger. Congrats, hope you enjoy it. Any plans to put into your main system and some A-B comparisons? BTW, I also have MC275 MkVI but mine is paired with ARC LS-27 pre & Vandersteen Treos. I for one would love to hear your review with the Evo in your main system.
Wes
JWH, a shootout in my main system isn't in the cards. I'd have to move too much stuff and I didn't setup the system. When I bought the 601s, C1100, D1100 and MCT450 my dealer had his guys hook everything up. I've since added an Aurender and Oppo 205. So I have lots of stuff hooked up to the D1100.
The EVO 100 is the first DAC I've bought without listening to it in my house first. After 2 weeks with it I can say it is great sounding DAC that is a match made in heaven with the MC275 and C2200.
The D1100 is a fantastic DAC. My Direct TV channels sound great. My SACD and Redbook CDs have never sounded so good. Aurender streamer is amazing. The D1100 now sells for 7500.00. The EVO 2999.00. For the money the EVO is in the same class as the D1100
I agree with what Robert Levi said in Positive Feedback
The PrimaLuna EVO 100 Tube DAC, a blockbuster component and musical triumph, leapfrogs dozens of DACs to virtually achieve state-of-the-art definition at a more than reasonable cost. Built as an heirloom product, this tubed beauty will bring you a lifetime of enjoyment from all the digital sources I can imagine.
It will be the last DAC for my game room system. I've temporarily moved my bedroom Lumin U1 mini streamer to the game room and I just don't see digital music getting much better.
alkizz
10-04-2019, 05:41 PM
I think you made the right choice! I have the same DAC which replaced the Musical Paradise one mentioned earlier in this thread. Although I've not had the pleasure of hearing the Schitt Yggy, I'm in love with the PL.
JWH, a shootout in my main system isn't in the cards. I'd have to move too much stuff and I didn't setup the system. When I bought the 601s, C1100, D1100 and MCT450 my dealer had his guys hook everything up. I've since added an Aurender and Oppo 205. So I have lots of stuff hooked up to the D1100.
The EVO 100 is the first DAC I've bought without listening to it in my house first. After 2 weeks with it I can say it is great sounding DAC that is a match made in heaven with the MC275 and C2200.
The D1100 is a fantastic DAC. My Direct TV channels sound great. My SACD and Redbook CDs have never sounded so good. Aurender streamer is amazing. The D1100 now sells for 7500.00. The EVO 2999.00. For the money the EVO is in the same class as the D1100
I agree with what Robert Levi said in Positive Feedback
The PrimaLuna EVO 100 Tube DAC, a blockbuster component and musical triumph, leapfrogs dozens of DACs to virtually achieve state-of-the-art definition at a more than reasonable cost. Built as an heirloom product, this tubed beauty will bring you a lifetime of enjoyment from all the digital sources I can imagine.
It will be the last DAC for my game room system. I've temporarily moved my bedroom Lumin U1 mini streamer to the game room and I just don't see digital music getting much better.
JBT, I understand. Glad you're enjoying the new PL. :thumbsup:
Well, I finally pulled the trigger on a new Yggdrasil and it's scheduled to arrive this Friday. I plan to power up continuously and will be reporting back here with my impressions. In addition, I plan to do some A-B comparisons with my McIntosh D100. We have really enjoyed owning and listening to the D100. It's build quality and aesthetics are undeniable and we chose it after owning an Ayre QB-9 but I'm ready for a change and the R-2R architecture has become the logical next step. Stay tuned for more ...
You’ll love the Yggy. Give it at least 48 hours before any serious listening. But it will sound great out of the box. It just gets better with time.
Tom
:thumbsup::thumbsup:You’ll love the Yggy. Give it at least 48 hours before any serious listening. But it will sound great out of the box. It just gets better with time.
Tom
The DAC arrived Friday and I immediately powered it up. I got it in the black finish ... it really looks good and the weight is substantial. I've tried not to make any judgements on sound but my initial impression is that it sounds tinny and forward with a little sibilance to go with it. I'm afraid it's going to require more patience for burn-in. Fingers crossed ... more to come in the next week. :scratch2:
Wes
The DAC arrived Friday and I immediately powered it up. I got it in the black finish ... it really looks good and the weight is substantial. I've tried not to make any judgements on sound but my initial impression is that it sounds tinny and forward with a little sibilance to go with it. I'm afraid it's going to require more patience for burn-in. Fingers crossed ... more to come in the next week. :scratch2:
Wes
Did you ever audition the PrimaLuna? I wouldn't worry about the thinness of the Yiggy Dac. Just leave it on 24/7 for a couple weeks and it'll be fine.
Did you ever audition the PrimaLuna? I wouldn't worry about the thinness of the Yiggy Dac. Just leave it on 24/7 for a couple weeks and it'll be fine.
I haven't had the opportunity to hear the Primaluna DAC ... nearest dealer is 2.5 hours away. I've heard people say that the Yggy needs anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks of continuous operation to settle in so I'm fully prepared. At the 100 hour mark last night it has definitely improved but still not there.
If I recall correctly from Dan's review, his was still improving up to 200 hours so I'll wait until that time to A-B with my McIntosh D100. At this point I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm really hoping for that lack of glare I've repeatedly read about. That will be the crux of the matter for me. Stay tuned for more to come...
kubla36
03-11-2020, 10:02 PM
If I recall correctly from Dan's review, his was still improving up to 200 hours so I'll wait until that time to A-B with my McIntosh D100. At this point I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm really hoping for that lack of glare I've repeatedly read about. That will be the crux of the matter for me. Stay tuned for more to come...
Typically people say at least 400. Mine kept settling to 1000 in treble, but good by 600.
Typically people say at least 400. Mine kept settling to 1000 in treble, but good by 600.
Well, with a 15 day return that is 360 hours so that will just have to do :scratch2:
PeterMusic
03-12-2020, 11:38 AM
Hi JWH,
My Yggy has been terrific for (almost) the entire time I've had it, including from the first song I played out of the box. I don't think you're going to hear much change after 100 hours, definitely not enough to go from glaring to terrific.
But I did have one short period of sound that I thought of as harsh or brittle, perhaps identical to your glaring. When I upgraded my server, I tried several different cables. One of the cables, a Goldmund, was quite unpleasant. Ironically, this was the most expensive cable I tried. I ended up with a Nordost Blue Heaven S/PDIF that I think cost $300. So before you send back the Yggy, I recommend trying a few different cables. If you have a regular dealer, I'd ask to borrow 3 of his recommendations. If not, I'd go to the Blockbuster Magnolia section and pick up an Audioquest that suits your budget.
Good luck!
Hi JWH,
My Yggy has been terrific for (almost) the entire time I've had it, including from the first song I played out of the box. I don't think you're going to hear much change after 100 hours, definitely not enough to go from glaring to terrific.
But I did have one short period of sound that I thought of as harsh or brittle, perhaps identical to your glaring. When I upgraded my server, I tried several different cables. One of the cables, a Goldmund, was quite unpleasant. Ironically, this was the most expensive cable I tried. I ended up with a Nordost Blue Heaven S/PDIF that I think cost $300. So before you send back the Yggy, I recommend trying a few different cables. If you have a regular dealer, I'd ask to borrow 3 of his recommendations. If not, I'd go to the Blockbuster Magnolia section and pick up an Audioquest that suits your budget.
Good luck!
Thanks Peter, I have been using the USB & SPDIF so I'm not sure that cables are the issue. I plan to do some tinkering this weekend before I do any critical comparisons.
I have read that Zu Audio recommend an extensive "warm-up" period even for their speakers (cross over networks are electrical circuits). They noted that shipping during winter months can effect this period as well.
My particular unit shipped UPS Ground from CA to SC so it spent almost a week on the road and, presumably, in some cold weather. Significant? I don't know but the range of experiences and opinions on how long it takes the Yggy to settle in are diverse.
Thanks Peter, I have been using the USB & SPDIF so I'm not sure that cables are the issue. I plan to do some tinkering this weekend before I do any critical comparisons.
I have read that Zu Audio recommend an extensive "warm-up" period even for their speakers (cross over networks are electrical circuits). They noted that shipping during winter months can effect this period as well.
My particular unit shipped UPS Ground from CA to SC so it spent almost a week on the road and, presumably, in some cold weather. Significant? I don't know but the range of experiences and opinions on how long it takes the Yggy to settle in are diverse.
Good listening. My experience has been that Yggy is far from strident or forward so I’m very interested in your impressions. I’d note that adding a Shunyata Diamondback power cord made a positive difference.
I’ve also found that the Yggy likes a little ‘social distancing’ and so I have mine isolated a bit and not near any other gear.
Tom
Thanks Tom. With all the angst currently I wasn’t sure anyone wanted to hear it but here goes. Last Sunday night was the 9 day mark. My wife and I sat down for our first serious listen. Just to ground everyone, I’m running an ARC LS-27 preamp, MC275 amp, Vandersteen Treos and Oppo BDP-105 as a transport. We hooked up our McIntosh D100 to do some A-B comparisons. Without getting off into the weeds about tracks used and nitty gritty details on each, I’ll say the following. At this point the Yggy finally started to change. In the beginning (48 hours in) I couldn’t tell the two apart... zero difference. Sunday the Yggy really started to reveal more details... sounded very alive. The D100 in comparison sounded laid back but very smooth... pleasing to my ear but missing some details in comparison. My wife (a musician) still found the Yggy fatiguing on the high frequencies. For me it was hit or miss... at times it seemed bright but other times very smooth... very vinyl like in presentation. It just depended on the recording. We have another session planned for Friday night (that will be the 14 day mark) so stay tuned. I’m hoping the changes will continue...
In hind sight I should clarify that when I say I couldn’t tell them apart early on that was just a quick non-critical listen. That is not to say I think the D100 sounds harsh and fatiguing... far from it.
Another nice review of the PrimaLuna Evo 100 Dac
https://www.magzter.com/article/Lifestyle/Hi-Fi-News/PrimaLuna-EVO-100-Tube-DAC
Thanks Tom. With all the angst currently I wasn’t sure anyone wanted to hear it but here goes. Last Sunday night was the 9 day mark. My wife and I sat down for our first serious listen. Just to ground everyone, I’m running an ARC LS-27 preamp, MC275 amp, Vandersteen Treos and Oppo BDP-105 as a transport. We hooked up our McIntosh D100 to do some A-B comparisons. Without getting off into the weeds about tracks used and nitty gritty details on each, I’ll say the following. At this point the Yggy finally started to change. In the beginning (48 hours in) I couldn’t tell the two apart... zero difference. Sunday the Yggy really started to reveal more details... sounded very alive. The D100 in comparison sounded laid back but very smooth... pleasing to my ear but missing some details in comparison. My wife (a musician) still found the Yggy fatiguing on the high frequencies. For me it was hit or miss... at times it seemed bright but other times very smooth... very vinyl like in presentation. It just depended on the recording. We have another session planned for Friday night (that will be the 14 day mark) so stay tuned. I’m hoping the changes will continue...
In hind sight I should clarify that when I say I couldn’t tell them apart early on that was just a quick non-critical listen. That is not to say I think the D100 sounds harsh and fatiguing... far from it.
Well, it’s been a year since my last post in this thread so I thought I’d finish the story in case anyone out there is curious. After the 14 day mark, I called Schiit and requested an additional week of audition time. They agreed and we kept the Yggy continuously running which came to 500 hours after three full weeks of running. We kept a signal going through the dac almost the entire time.
Executive summary: after 500 hours I sent the dac back. It sounded the same to me and my wife at the 14 & 21 day marks. The D100 sounded better on some tracks, the Yggy was better on others and many were about the same. If I hadn’t already owned the D100, I would have kept the Yggy. However, since I did own the D100, I saw no reason to change.
The biggest criticism I had of the Yggy was that the tactile sensation of the controls was terribly cheap. I will say that the black finish was quite good.
So that’s it, not terrible sounding but not a huge upgrade either ... more of a lateral move relative to the Mac. YMMV.
joel_hifi
03-09-2021, 03:06 AM
Wes, thanks for sharing your findings, in the end it seems both D100 and Yggy are excellent units!
Did you ever take the PL Evo 100 for home trial/audition?
Wes, thanks for sharing your findings, in the end it seems both D100 and Yggy are excellent units!
Did you ever take the PL Evo 100 for home trial/audition?
I have not tried the Evo 100 yet but there is a dealer in Atlanta now so I may try one eventually but it’s a 2.5 hour drive. :scratch2:
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