Ortofon 2M Black on the way

[jdandy]

Jeff at A/V Solutions finally tempted me beyond my ability to refuse. I have been wanting to try the Ortofon 2M Black moving magnet phono cartridge with the Shibata tip. I think my Micro Seiki turntable needs a new friend, and it is overdue for a newer generation cartridge. It will be interesting to see if this improves my attitude about vinyl. Looking forward to the Ortofon 2M Black's arrival.

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/main/Ortofon_2M_Black.jpg

[f1 fan]

Dan...that's a nice cartridge, I think you'll really like it.

Dave

[jdandy]

Dave.......I have heard positive comments from users here, and have read several reviews that presented positive experiences with the Ortofon 2M Black.

I have been using a Signet TK9eA, a hand built high-end cartridge from Audio-Technica, and a Shure V15vXMR cartridge. The Signet was manufactured in 1980, and has about 300 hours on it. The Shure was manufactured in 1987, and has less than 100 hours on it. My biggest concern with both cartridges is the complience of the stylus suspension system. The suspension parts that support the cantilever will harden with age. Even though both cartridge's stylus' are in excellent shape, which I inspect regularly under a 50x scope, I suspect both of my cartridge suspensions are suffering from age.

I am looking forward to a fresh cartridge on my tonearm. The Ortofon 2M Black should do the trick, and breath new life into my Micro Seiki DD-40 turntable.

[cmalak]

Dan...what tonearm do you have on your Micro Seiki? I am sure you have already done this but be sure that the weight and compliance of the Ortofon cart is a good fit with the tonearm so that the resonant frequency of the combination lands you in the 8-12 Hz range.

[MC352]

Dan,

I have that Cartridge. Like Dave said, I think you'll really like it.

[jdandy]

Cyril.......With the Micro Seiki m505 tone arm mass, plus the compliance of the Ortofon 2M Black, the Vinyl Engine cartridge database resonance evaluator indicates 7Hz. The Micro Seiki DD-40 operating manual shows cartridge weight range as 4 - 10g. The Ortofon 2M Black is 7.2g. I would prefer the resonance be in the mystical 8Hz range, but I believe I will be fine.

[jdandy]

Chuck.......I saw your signature line showing the Ortofon 2M Black. I believe there are a few others here using it, too. I think I am going to like this cartridge.

[f1 fan]

Dan...let us know when it arrives and of course post those pics;) I know you are going to enjoy the new cartridge.

Dave

[AudioNut]

Are you listening JEFF AT A/V Solutions? There are others here that are willing to be tempted beyond our ability to refuse. :yes::yes::yes:

Listening, Dan, for your take on the Ortofon!

[jdandy]

Are you listening JEFF AT A/V Solutions? There are others here that are willing to be tempted beyond our ability to refuse. :yes::yes::yes:

Julian.......Trust me, Jeff is listening, and doing a fine job of taking care of Audio Aficionado members. PM him with what you are interested in, and give him the opportunity to tempt you. You might be pleasantly surprised. I certainly was impressed. :yes:

[Still-One]

Jeff at A/V Solutions finally tempted me beyond my ability to refuse. I have been wanting to try the Ortofon 2M Black moving magnet phono cartridge with the Shibata tip. I think my Micro Seiki turntable needs a new friend, and it is overdue for a newer generation cartridge. It will be interesting to see if this improves my attitude about vinyl. Looking forward to the Ortofon 2M Black's arrival.
Any particular reason you went with MM vs MC?

[jdandy]

Any particular reason you went with MM vs MC?

Jim.......I have listened to five different turntables with moving coil cartridges, three with McIntosh pramplifiers (C2300 and C1000P), one with a Tandberg preamplifier, and two with outboard phono stages (don't remember the makes, but not extreme high dollar pre/pre's). I listened to the Sumiko Blue Point and the Blackbird. and was offered the Blackbird secondhand at a great price. I have auditioned the Denon DL-103R, the Benz Micro Glider and the Benz Ace. I realize none of these MC cartridges are at the high-end of the MC catagory, but hearing them gave me the opportunity to form an opinion. My experience with these cartridges was similar with all, a certain dryness, an etched character to the sound, and an exaggerated top end is how I describe what I was experiencing. Honestly, after all the MC hype I have read and heard, I expected much more than was delivered. There was also a higher background noise level from the MC phono stages than I am use to with a higher output moving magnet cartridge. I liked the Benz Micro Glider sound the best, but it did not surpass my two moving magnet cartridges at a level that warranted a $1K expenditure, IMO.

There is a huge moving coil bandwagon pounding the proverbial drum, churning the printed media, extolling the superiority of moving coil cartridges over moving magnet cartridges. The constant drone of all the hoopla doesn't impress me. Furthermore, I am not willing to turn over $3K or more to get to that exalted level of moving coil performace. I have had excellent results for many years with moving magnet cartridges, and prefer the higher output, quieter background, and the option of user replaceable stylus should one be needed.

There have been many advances in moving magnet technology through the years, including higher quality materials, improved assembly technics, and extended frequency response. The price range between $500 and $1K in the moving magnet arena is populated with a nice quantity of excellent cartridges.

[AudioNut]

I've been using higher end moving coil cartridges for many (probably 15) years and have had exceedingly good results. However, I haven't tried a moving magnet cartridge for about the same period of time, so I really don't know what the differences would be.

Based on what Dan has written, I am very willing to look and learn and possibly try another MM cartridge in my system.

The biggest problem I have encountered with MC cartridges is the very high cost of stylus repair/replacement. I'm now using a Graham Nightingale II cartridge in my main system, which my cleaning lady damaged while dusting my turntable (after having been told dozens of times never to touch the thing) and the cost of repair is some $1400 plus the cost of shipping to the manufacturer (Immutable Music, also the maker of Transfiguration cartridges) in Tokyo, Japan. I'm still using the thing, although slightly mis-aligned, but every time I play a record, I'm sure it is gouging the vinyl or something. (It does sound good, though)

I also currently have a Benz Ruby 3 cartridge on its way back from The Soundsmith, who repaired a broken left channel (cost of re-soldering the wires was over $400.00). Van den Hul re-tipped my Koetsu cartridge a couple of years ago for a bunch of money, and the horror stories go on.

For the cost of repair, I could buy several very good MM cartridges. (plus maybe a user replaceable stylus or two)

Y'all help - please give suggestions of good MM cartridges. I think I am ready to make a change.

Julian

[jdandy]

The Ortofon 2M Black, and the 2M Red were briefly reviewed in The Absolute Sound.

Here is the link. Be sure to click NO when asked if you want to view only the web page content delivered securely. Otherwise the article will not load.

https://system.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=13557&c=ACCT106601&h=13e2ca49e1091cc639d2&_xt=.htm

[cmalak]

I believe the Clearaudio Maestro that Serge owns and started out with on his Clearaudio table is one of the highly reviewedd MMs as well. It will set you back $1000 and is probably at the upper end of MM price ranges. There is a huge thread on Agon on MM vs MC coil cartridges. Here it is for those interested: AudiogoN Forums: Who needs a MM cartridge type when we have MC? (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&&&/Who-needs-a-MM-cartridge-type-when-we-ha)

The original poster - Rauliruegas - is not a native English speaker so his posts are sometimes a bit hard to follow but he is one of the Analog gurus on Agon and is often cited and he maintains ala Dan that there are plenty of good MMs that deliver great performance at a much better price-to-performance point. The thread has 1928 posts as proponents of each technology duke it out, so it is not a quick read. Enjoy

[jdandy]

Cyril.......I would agree with you that the Clearaudio Maestro Wood is a very fine moving magnet cartridge. Several members use this cartridge, most notably Serge and Alberto. Both have spoken highly of its sonic virtues. Correct me if I am wrong, but the one drawback I see with the Clearaudio Maestro Wood is no user replaceable stylus. Like Julian pointed out, accidents happen. I don't want to have to ship my cartridge body off to a manufacturer to replace a damaged or worn stylus. I am only guessing here, but I would imagine the cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of $650 to install a new stylus on a Maestro Wood. That would not surprise me at all. Then you have to go through the cartridge set up process all over again. I find this to be a disadvantage.

[cmalak]

Dan...I believe you are right. I checked on Clearaudio's site as well as Musical Surroundings' (Clearaudio importer in the US) site and I did not see any mention of user-replaceable stylus, so you would probably have to send the cart back in for a stylus replacement. I do not know the cost of doing so. I was just pointing out the Clearaudio Maestro for Julian as another high quality MM cart option for him to check out. Your 2M Black is highly reviewed and is a Class B Stereophile recommended cart (not that you should go by that as you say) but it has received a lot of praise since it has come out :thumbsup:. Your ears and the fit in your system is the most important and final arbiter of cartridge choice.

One quick question for you Dan, when you listened to the Benz Micro Glider S, do you remember if it was the Low, Medium or High output version. That is the cart I am contemplating for the VPI Classic (which I am still waiting on my dealer to get so I can audition it!) as it comes highly recommended by my dealer. But depending on the phono stage you use it with and the output version of the cart, you will get varying results (i.e., if you used the low output version = 0.3mV with a phono that does not have enough gain for a LO MC cart, then you will have to dial up the volume signifcantly and you will hear a lot of background noise).

I don't know what you found when you listened to all the carts you mentioned in an earlier post but it's so hard to compare carts because unless you listen to them all at the same dealer on same table, tonearm and phono, it is too hard to compare because you have more than one variable changing making comparisons difficult. Any thoughts on this? Thx Dan.

[jdandy]

Cyril.......The Benz Micro Glider was the medium output model, through the moving coil phono stage of the C2300 with stock McIntosh tubes. The turntable was a Pro-Ject RM10 with the 10" carbon fiber Pro-Ject 10cc arm. The turntable is in a friend's system in St. Marys, Georgia, with the C2300, MCD500, MC501's, and B&W 802D's.

I think one of the reasons I found myself liking the Benz Micro Glider is because I was able to listen to it in a home environment for a few hours. Several albums played were the same ones I own. I will admit, the Benz Micro Glaider does sound very good, but I still felt it had a little tinge of top end edge. Seperation was excellent, and bass was controlled and solid. He said the turntable and cartridge were set up by his dealer, so I have to assume it is near correct. Some of the bright top end I experienced may have been exaggerated to some degree by the tweeters on the 802D's. The have a lot of shimmer.

I could not agree with you more about trying to effectively compare cartridges. Many dealers show rooms that I have visited didn't have a single turntable set up. They sold cartridges from their display cases without the ability to audition them. Of course I have not auditioned the Ortofon 2M Black, so that did not stop my purchase.

[cmalak]

Thx for the feedback Dan. I am hoping I will be able to audition the Benz Micro Glider S with the exact setup that I will end up purchasing so I should know what it sounds like without guessing or taking a leap of faith (assuming i like it and the the VPI Classic). The fallback for me will be the Dynavector 20X cart which is known to be a good fit with VPI's JMW tonearms.

I am sure you will have a blast with the 2M Black. Looking forward to pics and your impressions of the cart once you have it set up. It's always fun when a new piece of gear enters the system and gives you a slightly different presentation, allowing you to re-appreciate your musical collection from a slightly different perspective. It's cliche but it is kind of rediscovering your own music or reigniting an interest in your music. I hope it does that for you and more.

[jdandy]

Cyril.......I spun vinyl for over twenty years as my primary source. That is why I have always kept a turntable, if for nothing more than nostalgia. I still spin vinyl but not very often. Perhaps the new cartridge will reignite the old passion.

[Ron-C]

If you adjust the loading on C2300, C500 and C1000 while listening, you should be able to make the highs sound anywhere from bright to dull.

Thanks,

[jdandy]

Ron-C.......You are correct. One of the really cool things with my friend's C2300 is that cartridge loading can be done via the remote control from your favorite seating position. Since I was listening to his system, I made no adjustments. I have played with those adjustments many times myself with my own gear. Remote control of those functions is a great McIntosh feature.

[1KW]

Dan

I am looking forward to your impression of the ortofon 2m black . I am going to be using your line ...."The constant drone of all the hoopla doesn't impress me." in the future :D

[jetblack]

Dan,

So, you finally pulled the trigger. That's great news! I know awhile back you had indicated that you wanted to make an upgrade move in some kind of direction. I hope the 2MB will put a smile on your face. :music:

And thanks for the feedback on the other cartridges you listened to. I didn't have the chance to listen to as many others.

Danny

[Jerome W]

Dan,

You're investing again in LP playback : these are good news !!
I see maybe a new TT coming :scratch2: !
Jerome

[jdandy]

Dan,

So, you finally pulled the trigger. That's great news! I know awhile back you had indicated that you wanted to make an upgrade move in some kind of direction. I hope the 2MB will put a smile on your face. :music:

And thanks for the feedback on the other cartridges you listened to. I didn't have the chance to listen to as many others.

Danny

Danny.......It was your positive feedback on the Ortofon 2M Black, as well as Chuck's that finally peaked my interest in this phono cartridge. Jeff at A/V Solutions removed some of the sting from the purchase, so it was an easy decision. I should have the new cartridge tomorrow if Priority mail isn't delayed for some reason. I am excited to give it a spin.

[jdandy]

Dan,

You're investing again in LP playback : these are good news !!
I see maybe a new TT coming :scratch2: !
Jerome

Jérôme.......Yes, I am hoping to improve the setup I presently have. I love my direct drive Micro Seiki DD-40 turntable. The m505 arm is an engineering marvel, and does so many things right. It tracks beautifully, allows tracking force adjustment, vertical tracking angle adjustment, and anti-skate adjustment, all while actually playing an album. The arm even has cartridge azimuth adjustment capabilities, too. The direct drive is dead silent, high torque, with servo control speed adjustment for 33 and 45 rpm. The speed stability is extremely stable. The turntable has adjustable shock mounted feet that allow accurate leveling of the turntable, and Tom at Turntable Depot manufactured a brand new dust cover for the Micro Seiki that is perfect. I love this 30 year old turntable. It is an engineering marvel, and a beauty to behold.

All of that said, it does not mean I might not consider a new turntable purchase, but I am not likely to part with the Micro Seiki no matter what other direction I may decide to go. When you own a piece of audio equipment for 30 years it becomes a part of you, especially since it still performs perfectly and looks brand new.

The Ortofon 2M Black has the expensive Shibata tip mounted on the cantilever, and is the same Shibata tip that is used on the Ortofon Jubilee moving coil cartridge ($2350.00). I am expecting the Ortofon 2M Black to sound very good. It is the first new cartridge I have purchased in over twenty years.

[Jerome W]

Dan,
Micro Seiki TT's are beautifully crafted. I easily understand why you would not let it go. "Modern" TT's don't have real improvements over older designs, like for fm tuners....
Enjoy your new cart ! I will be very curious to read your comments.
Cheers
Jerome

[jdandy]

The Ortofon 2M Black arrived this afternoon. Jeff at A/V Solutions did a fine job of getting the phono cartridge to me quickly, and super well packed. Thanks, Jeff.

It took about an hour and a half to get the Ortofon 2M Black mounted, alignment set up, VTA adjusted, tracking force and anti-skate set, and azimuth verified on the headshell. It is always a labor of love to work on the Micro Seiki turntable. I take everything slow, keep myself relaxed, pay close attention, and enjoy myself. Installing a new cartridge, and setting up the tonearm is a true joy of our hobby. I don't do it often, but I have fun every time.

I selected four albums to audition. These are albums I am very familiar with, and like listening to them. I started with Hiroshima (Original Master Recording), then played Riki Lee Jones (Original Master Recording), then Fleetwood Mac (Nautilus Super Disc), and finally Stevie Ray Vaughn. These albums are in pristine condition, cleaned, and Last treated.

It did not take me ten seconds to immediately realize the Ortofon 2M Black bests the Shure V15VxMR, and the Ortofon isn't even broken in yet. On Hiroshima's album the voices, stringed instruments, and drums had much greater clarity and air. Channel seperation was wider than the V15VxMR, and the entire presentation was much more dynamic and exciting.

This carried right into Riki Lee Jones album. Riki's voice was more three dimensional, with a very believable texture and presentation. On "Easy Money" the electric keyboard notes just floated in the air, including the extremely high frequency keyboard notes. Note a hint of edge, just very clean, with plenty of seperation from Riki's voice, guitars, and drum. On "Last Chance Texaco", one of my favorite Riki Lee Jones tunes, her voice, the acoustic guitars, and the bass each had ample room without a smidgen of smearing. I am thoroughly impressed.

The Nautilus Super Disc version of Fleetwood Mac - Rumors is excellent. "Second Hand News" came across with a lot more energy and dynamics in the drum beats and vocals than the Shure was able to deliver. By comparison, the V15VxMR sounds a bit flat, where the Ortofon 2M Black presented a realistic presentation of the energy in this tune, with a much larger sound stage that was considerably deeper and wider. On "Gold Dust Woman" Stevie Nicks voice, and Nick Fleetwoods harmonies were locked in the center of the sound stage, which had excellent width and depth. John McVie's bass was solid and tight, not a trace of muddiness, or one note symptons.

Tracking the Stevie Ray Vaughn - Couldn't Stand The Weather album was a delight. This is one of my all time favorite blues/rock albums, and Stevie's guitar and vocals jumped off the vinyl and into my room like I have not heard it before. On "Cold Shot" the groove fell right into place, Stevie Ray's voice and guitar never interfered with the driving bass, and the blistering guitar and drums. On "Tin Pan Alley" the slow bass was full and rich, and the guitar riffs were crisp and clean, while Stevie Ray's voice strongly filled the center of the sound stage.

I have to admit, I didn't really want to stop listening to the Ortofon 2M Black, and sit down long enough to post these photos and a quick review, but I wanted to get this up for those interested. It is evident that I should have made a cartridge change a long time ago. As good as the older cartridges were in their day, the newest designs, materials, and stylus shapes have advanced the art considerably. It's like taking blinders off, and realizing I now have a wide angle view. There was that much difference. I have had my vinyl fire reignited this evening in less than three hours, and honestly haven't heard my albums sound this good before. The Ortofon 2M Black is an excellent phono cartridge, ultra quiet, very broad frequency response and wide channel seperation, tracks wonderfully at 1.7 grams, and is very musical. It will only get better. Color me a happy camper.

[cmalak]

Dan...that is awesome news :banana:. Really glad the Ortofon 2M Black is working out so well. That is just great. Enjoy it. I don't know the Hiroshima album but the other three are all classics. Nicely done. :thumbsup:

[vintage_tube]

Cyril.......With the Micro Seiki m505 tone arm mass, plus the compliance of the Ortofon 2M Black, the Vinyl Engine cartridge database resonance evaluator indicates 7Hz. The Micro Seiki DD-40 operating manual shows cartridge weight range as 4 - 10g. The Ortofon 2M Black is 7.2g. I would prefer the resonance be in the mystical 8Hz range, but I believe I will be fine.

Hi Dan,

I don't believe the 7 Hz (or 8Hz) calculation is correct -- That's unrealistic IMO.

Bob

[f1 fan]

Dan...awesome looking table and cartridge. Nice selection of analog recordings especially Hiroshima which you don't see many of. You're going to hear more of the recordings and enjoy listening to the analog front more often. Keep us updated on your listening experiences.

Dave

[jdandy]

Bob.......I am using the cartridge resonance evaluator chart from VinylEngine Cartridge Resonance Evaluator (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=28&submit=Submit)

Looking at the numbers again I see I made a mistake. The chart is telling me I have a 6Hz resonance. The arm mass of the m505 is stated as 30 grams. The cartridge mass is 7.2 grams. The cartridge Dynamic Compliance is 22. Using these numbers the resonance evaluator chart shows a 6Hz resonance frequency.

If you know a better way to figure the resonance please let me know.

[jdandy]

Dan...awesome looking table and cartridge. Nice selection of analog recordings especially Hiroshima which you don't see many of. You're going to hear more of the recordings and enjoy listening to the analog front more often. Keep us updated on your listening experiences.

Dave.......Thank you. Now I will be dragging all my albums out for a play. It is a lot of fun when something new is part of your system, and you discover the excitement of rediscovering old music.

[streetspirit]

I'm looking forward to getting my first turntable this year (well second if you count the kids version that looked like a suitcase and had a sweet plastic tonearm I got in the early 80's!), but seems I need to do some reading as this last post looks daunting to the uninitiated...

[jdandy]

I'm looking forward to getting my first turntable this year (well second if you count the kids version that looked like a suitcase and had a sweet plastic tonearm I got in the early 80's!), but seems I need to do some reading as this last post looks daunting to the uninitiated...

Mitch.......Don't let the numbers mumbo jumbo intimidate you. By and large most turntable and arm combinations can accept the majority of the moving magnet cartridges on the market. I am no expert on arm/cartridge combinations, and can use all the help I can get from the more knowledgeable, but I can say this, I have had good success with the choices I have made so far as I blunder along the vinyl path. It isn't as scary as it might seem.

[PHC1]

Enjoy your new cartridge Dan! Sounds like it is pulling you back into vinyl and that is a great thing. So much music buried in those grooves and as inferior as some like to portray vinyl, it sure sounds like great music to many of us.

I don't know much about the m505 tonearm and I am curious myself if the "effective mass" really is 30 gm? I am not doubting your info, just seems to be roughly 3x the effective mass of most modern tonearms. :scratch2:

[Removed]

Hi Dan.......I think I read somewhere that your arm effective mass is around 7 grams which puts the numbers at 8.89Hz. I could be wrong though as there isn't too much info spec wise on your arm available.

Glad your liking the cart.

Jeff

[jdandy]

Enjoy your new cartridge Dan! Sounds like it is pulling you back into vinyl and that is a great thing. So much music buried in those grooves and as inferior as some like to portray vinyl, it sure sounds like great music to many of us.

I don't know much about the m505 tonearm and I am curious myself if the "effective mass" really is 30 gm? I am not doubting your info, just seems to be roughly 3x the effective mass of most modern tonearms. :scratch2:

Serge.......I may have an incorrect number for the arm mass.. That number was penciled into the back of my owner's manual many years ago when I ran across it while researching the m505. I have since done extensive searches of the arm, and cannot find the effective mass listed anywhere, not even in the database at VinylEngine. If anyone has the known correct arm mass number, I would like to know what it is. Right now, I can only use what I have, and hope that it is correct.

I don't know if you can consider a 30 year old tonearm, even one as well engineered as the m505, to be looked at as a modern tonearm.

I can tell you this. What ever the cartridge/arm resonance frequency might be, the Ortofon 2M Black is sounding mighty good to my ears. Without even being broken in yet, it is walking all over the Signet TK9eA and the Shure V15VxMR cartridges. The openess, clarity, and dynamics is superior to both of my old cartridges. This was a good move for me. I should have done this sooner.

[jdandy]

Hi Dan.......I think I read somewhere that your arm effective mass is around 7 grams which puts the numbers at 8.89Hz. I could be wrong though as there isn't too much info spec wise on your arm available.

Glad your liking the cart.

Jeff

Jeff.......Thank you. If that 7 gram effective mass number is accurate, then I like that 8.89Hz resonance number better than 6Hz. I plan to keep searching for data on the Micro Seiki m505 tonearm. If you find any web info about effective mass of the m505 please let me know.

[Removed]

Jeff.......Thank you. If that 7 gram effective mass number is accurate, then I like that 8.89Hz resonance number better than 6Hz. I plan to keep searching for data on the Micro Seiki m505 tonearm. If you find any web info about effective mass of the m505 please let me know.

Will do......

[jdandy]

The Ortofon 2M Black now has about five hours on it. I am quite pleased with how much cleaner, and more detailed it sounds over the performance of my other two cartridges. Earlier this morning I played the Riki Lee Jones album again, and I think I can hear the cartridge beginning to open up, as Riki's voice seemed just a bit more lifelike this morning than on first play last night. I wonder how many hours a typical moving magnet cartridge break-in period takes.


http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq255/jdandy_photos/Cartridge8.jpg

[cmalak]

Dan...If the tonearm's effective mass is 7gr, and the cart's weight is 7.2gr, with compliance of 22, my resonant frequency calculator says 8.99Hz. So that should be a very nice match. I got my calculator from the Analog Department site: Cartridge / Arm Matching (http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm). Just click on Freek's Resonant Frequency calculator and that will call up the spreadseet with some data populated for a number of carts, tonearms. You can input the data at the top of the sheet for your specific arm and cart. The formula to calculate the resonant frequency of the arm/cart combo is:
rf = 159 / sqrt ((eff. mass + cart weight+fastener weight) * (compliance)). The fastener weight (the screws/nusts used to attach cart to tonearm have weight ofcourse but are ignored in the spreadsheet referred to above because they add minimally to the weight.

Hope this is useful :thumbsup:

[Removed]

Hi Dan......here you go

Obchod | Fonolab (http://www.fonolab.com/obchod.html?product=62)

Jeff

[jdandy]

Dan...If the tonearm's effective mass is 7gr, and the cart's weight is 7.2gr, with compliance of 22, my resonant frequency calculator says 8.99Hz. So that should be a very nice match. I got my calculator from the Analog Department site: Cartridge / Arm Matching (http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm). Just click on Freek's Resonant Frequency calculator and that will call up the spreadseet with some data populated for a number of carts, tonearms. You can input the data at the top of the sheet for your specific arm and cart. The formula to calculate the resonant frequency of the arm/cart combo is:
rf = 159 / sqrt ((eff. mass + cart weight+fastener weight) * (compliance)). The fastener weight (the screws/nusts used to attach cart to tonearm have weight ofcourse but are ignored in the spreadsheet referred to above because they add minimally to the weight.

Hope this is useful :thumbsup:

Cyril.......I bookmarked that site. The resonant frequency calculator is great, not to mention all the other great infor that's available. Thank you.

[jdandy]

Hi Dan......here you go

Obchod | Fonolab (http://www.fonolab.com/obchod.html?product=62)

Jeff

Jeff.......Wow, you found it. I have been searching so long, and never came across that arm data. 7 grams effective mass it is. Terrific! Thank you so much. :thumbsup:

[PHC1]

Here is a calc I like to use. :thumbsup: http://www.mh-audio.nl/MySystem/RF.asp

[cmalak]

Here is a calc I like to use. :thumbsup: mh-audio.nl - Home (http://www.mh-audio.nl/MySystem/RF.asp)

Serge...looks like the same calculator. this one incorporates fastener weight as well, which should make it a tad bit more accurate. :yes:

[jdandy]

Serge.......Thank you. I have added another bookmark for this calculator, too. You can never have too much information.

The Micro Seiki MA505 arm is a lovely piece of tonearm engineering.


http://www.fonolab.com/data/1260380909_982Micro_Seiki_MA-505_02.JPG

[PHC1]

Dan, is there anyone out there that rebuilds the m505? I am sure it used precision bearing back in the day but you mentioned it is now 30 years old. I personally would not want to part with a classic like that but would be curious if someone out there competent enough could take it apart and either give all the bearing a good lube or rebuild it. :scratch2:

[jdandy]

Dan, is there anyone out there that rebuilds the m505? I am sure it used precision bearing back in the day but you mentioned it is now 30 years old. I personally would not want to part with a classic like that but would be curious if someone out there competent enough could take it apart and either give all the bearing a good lube or rebuild it. :scratch2:

Serge.......I am not sure that I would trust anyone other than perhaps the Micro Seiki factory to disassemble, and reassemble this arm. As old as the arm is, it floats like a butterfly, literally. When at static balance without any tracking force applied, the slightest breath on the tonearm will cause the arm to rise and fall, rocking until it settles back to the static balance point. The same is true for the arc swing. I feel comfortable that the arm is performing well, even considering it's age. In its entire life the turntable and arm have always been in a climate controlled, non-smoking, pet free environment, with a dust cover in place when not being used.

[Removed]

Jeff.......Wow, you found it. I have been searching so long, and never came across that arm data. 7 grams effective mass it is. Terrific! Thank you so much. :thumbsup:

Your welcome.......

Jeff

[jetblack]

rf = 159 / sqrt ((eff. mass + cart weight+fastener weight) * (compliance)).

Any ideas out there on where the number 159 is derived? :scratch2:

[Removed]

The number 159 in the equation is a constant

rf = 159 / sqrt ((eff. mass + cart weight + fastener weight) * (compliance))

A constant is a number you would use when converting from one kind of measuring unit to another
For example, quarts to gallons, there are always 4 quarts to a gallon, it's "constant"
So for how ever many quarts you divide be 4 to get the number of gallons
?# of quarts/4 = # of gallons (6 quarts/4 = 1 1/2 gallons)

In other words you need the constant of 4 to make the equation work

Hope this helps........

Jeff

[jdandy]

My new Ortofon 2M Black has about 16 hours on it now, and sounding impressively musical across the entire audio spectrum. I am very impressed by the dynamics of the cartridge, as well. The more I listen to the 2M Black the more I think this may be a best buy moving magnet phono cartridge, and a bona fide sleeper in its price range.

[cmalak]

So Dan...here's the question now :scratch2: (you knew somebody was going to ask so it might as well be me :D). Now that your interest in vinyl has been re-energized by the Ortofon cart in combination with the C1000T's phono and your excellent Micro Seiki table, if you had to take a step back and dispassionately compare the sonics coming out of your vinyl rig now in the 2-ch tube system with the MCD500 in the same system, how would you describe the pros and cons of each? And ultimately, notwithstanding the imbalance in source material (i.e., you have a lot more digital than vinyl right now), which do you think you prefer listening to? Again I know the excitement is on the side of the vinyl rig right now because you are re-engaging with that format but if you had to guess what source material 1-3 months from now is going to dominate your listening time, what do you think it's going to be from a listening preference perspective (and not convenience etc...)? :scratch2:

[jdandy]

So Dan...here's the question now :scratch2: (you knew somebody was going to ask so it might as well be me :D). Now that your interest in vinyl has been re-energized by the Ortofon cart in combination with the C1000T's phono and your excellent Micro Seiki table, if you had to take a step back and dispassionately compare the sonics coming out of your vinyl rig now in the 2-ch tube system with the MCD500 in the same system, how would you describe the pros and cons of each? And ultimately, notwithstanding the imbalance in source material (i.e., you have a lot more digital than vinyl right now), which do you think you prefer listening to? Again I know the excitement is on the side of the vinyl rig right now because you are re-engaging with that format but if you had to guess what source material 1-3 months from now is going to dominate your listening time, what do you think it's going to be from a listening preference perspective (and not convenience etc...)? :scratch2:

Cyril.......I knew this question was coming. I am surprised it took this long to arrive.

I still prefer my MCD500 CD/SACD players to the Micro Seiki and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. Please don't misunderstand my new found enthusiasm for vinyl. It is most enjoyable, and is now sounding better to me than I can ever remember hearing vinyl sound before. Despite this wonderful discovery, I am still a serious digital enthusist. The newest digital recordings on CD are sounding better and better. The total absence of background noise, or noise floor as is the case with vinyl, still pleases me more than vinyl. It is still my impression that the overall dynamic range of digital recordings remains superior to analog. CD's that have been recorded after about 2002 through the current time have continually benefited from knowledge gained about digital to analog conversions, jitter, improved sampling rates, etc. Prior to about 2002, and particularly music recorded digitally from the late 1980's to late 1990's, suffered from all the anomalies about digital that had yet to be discovered and solved. This doesn't mean there isn't room for continued advances in DACs, and digital recording, but the process has advanced tremendously in the past five to eight years, and is clearly audible to me on the more recent CD recordings I have purchased.

Vinyl is now something I will spend more time listening to, and is quite thrilling to hear how good it sounds with a high quality cartridge, arm, turntable, and premium phono stage and preamplifier. Every link in the analog playback chain makes a difference in the final playback results, as is also true with digital playback. I am enjoying vinyl once again, and will continue to do so, but digital will remain king of the house, and will garner the most playback hours.

[cmalak]

Thx Dan. That does not surprise me. I grew up with tape in the 70s and Cd from the 80s onwards and the black background of digital is what I have always known. I am very interested in how I will react to vinyl and all its maintenance and endemic surface level noise and so on. Now if my dealer can only get his VPI Classic in the shop so I can hear the damn thing before I pull the trigger or if I decide it's not to my liking continue shopping.:thumbsup:

[jdandy]

Cyril.......I feel confident that you will discover analog vinyl playback to be very satisfying. It is definately different than digital, and presents a unique listening experience. An enormous quantity of glorious adjectives have been spread thick across countless numbers of pages extolling the supremacy of analog versus digital sound. There are advocates and adversaries in both camps who feel equally strong in support of their choice, some bordering on fanaticism, but it always boils down to an individual's personal tastes and listening experiences. Sound is, and will remain a subjective topic. No two people hear exactly alike.

Personally, I enjoy both formats, analog and digital. In fact, in the analog domain I actually like tape better than vinyl when listening to music that was recorded directly to the tape, rather than using tape to copy a vinyl recording. Live to tape is awesome, with excellent signal to noise ratio, broad dynamics, and a very analog and lifelike sound when played back. I get amazing results with my half track Revox B77 Mk2 reel to reel recorder when recording live in the studio.

Getting back to turntables, I know you have your sights set on the VPI Classic, as you stated. What cartridge are you planning to use? How much vinyl do you have in your collection?

[cmalak]

Dan...As for carts, I am thinking either the Benz Micro Glider S (low or medium output) or the Lyra Dorian cart, with Dynavector 20X as the entry-level option. Nagra BPS solid state phono although I am intrigued by the new Fosgate tube phono pre but don't know where i can audition it locally. I have bought maybe 10-12 new LPs and 130 used LPs, so have around 140 LPs. I have a good supply of used and new LPs in the Boston area with some excellent local record stores. I figure if I don't get the vinyl bug in a serious way, I have limited the investment and the Classic will be easily resellable, as will the Nagra BPS phono stage. Will take a hit on the cart and on the LPs but when I think of all the money I have spent on cables (which your exercise recently showcased for me) this is a minimal investment. I suspect I will like vinyl and like you will have a place for both in my listening regimen. How much I like it will determine how much more I spend to get its performance up to par with my current digital playback down the road. :thumbsup: