Focal Electra Question

[lordemsworth]

Hello all,

Wondering if there are any here that moved from a B&W Diamond speaker to a Focal Electra?

I just moved from 805 Diamonds to 1008 Be 2s.

I'm about to complete an update to the amp, (Krell 400 XI to Moon i5.3), but with my current amp (Krell), and I have found that the Focal do not have the soundstage extend beyond the outer edge of the speakers as much as the B&Ws.

The biggest positive differences I've found:
1) The sound from the Focal is much more full - I can definitely hear more of the instruments in a recording
2) The tweeter just doesn't seem to break up. It remains clean and coherent on all recordings. I run a Squeezebox Touch through a Meridian DAC, and I need to set the gain of the input to 97 (verified with Meridian) to use the Volume of the amp correctly. With two pairs of Sonus Faber and the B&W, I found the tweeter would tend to break up on very high notes, or old recordings. The Focal do not have this particular feature (for which I am grateful).

Thoughts would be appreciated.

[Superfrg]

I have 1008's coming in a week, but as surround speakers so I only have theoretical knowledge and experience with Sopra 2's floor standers.

However, I'm sure you could change the sound a lot by speaker placement.

Check this review out for some placement ideas, even though it is a Utopia Diablo. (Page 2)
http://www.excelia-hifi.cz/focal/test/focal-diablo-utopia-tone_audio_09_09.pdf
They are much closer together that I would think would be good.

Also, Toe-in is a major factor.
The manual for my speakers more or less suggest pointing the speakers at me, but with a wider toe-in I get the widest soundstage.

I found in general that moving my speakers a inch or two can change the imaging & soundstage by a huge amount.

Good luck with those Focals, I think they make magnificent speakers

[Formerly YB-2]

However, I'm sure you could change the sound a lot by speaker placement.

Check this review out for some placement ideas, even though it is a Utopia Diablo. (Page 2)
http://www.excelia-hifi.cz/focal/test/focal-diablo-utopia-tone_audio_09_09.pdf
They are much closer together that I would think would be good.

Also, Toe-in is a major factor.
The manual for my speakers more or less suggest pointing the speakers at me, but with a wider toe-in I get the widest soundstage.

I found in general that moving my speakers a inch or two can change the imaging & soundstage by a huge amount.
+1. Good info.
Very pleased with the 1008BeIIs. My final decision was between the 805Ds and 1008BeIIs and am happy with my choice.

[Rod#S]

My dealer carries both lines and I have heard the Electra's and B&W Diamonds many times in the same high end Moon system. It was always the towers used, for Focal it was the 1028's and 1038's and for B&W it was the 804's and 802's. All speakers were the latest models. There was also an Alto Utopia there for a time when the 804 was in the room.

My impressions were I always preferred the diamond tweeter to the beryllium. The 1028's and 1038's were on average all around better speakers than the 804 with the exception being the treble but they had better mids and bass.

The 802's for me always surpassed the 1028's and 1038's across the board. Comparing the Alto to the 804's, well the Alto wins there :) I would also give the edge to the Alto over the 802's. For treble the advantage goes to the 802's but the Alto wins hands down in the mids and bass.

This is not the case though with the 800's. The 800's bring everything I liked about the mids and bass in the Alto along with my preference for the diamond tweeter. I sure wish the dealer had the Scala's as I've always been curious how much improvement there is over the Alto.

[Art Vandelay]

The 800D2's kill the Scala's in the bass and present a bigger soundstage, but some people will prefer the Scala's overall balance and slightly better projected mids.

I listened extensively to both before settling on the 800's. If you're using them as mains in a HT setup then then the choice is made even easier, unless you pair the Scala's with a pair of very good subs.

[lordemsworth]

Well, one week in, and the thing I notice most is: I can hear more music.

Two tracks come to mind - Rodrigo Concerto de Aranjuez first movement. Within the first 90 seconds, there is the entrance of two very low notes. Up until today, I've not heard them on any system I've owned.

The Faces - Ooh La La. There is a bass beat that you can keep time to throughout the song. It's very clear and impactful on the Focals. Moreso than 805Ds that preceded them.

But still, there seems to be less room in the treble. Let's see how another couple of weeks go.

[Glisse]

Might be time, given how you are improving your system, to move to a better source. The Logitech Touch, whilst a fantastic product at its price point, is limiting transparency and soundstage size. I would not blame the other components for this. An Auralic Aries, by example, is a big step up from a Touch. I think Moon (given you like their amps) have a similar product as well, although have not heard it.

[Superfrg]

I see the Auralic Aries is recommended, I own it, and its great for sound vs. price.

However, I just want to say the lightning app for streaming is buggy.
Having owned mine for a few months, they have made updates a few times - fixing one problem, creating another.
Like being part of a beta program, although it was released quite some time ago.

Also, there is no app for iPhone yet, even though the manual says they will release it autumn 2014....

I have only used it for Tidal, maybe its better for local files.

Just my experience.

[Biggar]

This seems to be the right place to ask this question. If I'm in the wrong location, perhaps someone could redirect me.

I listen through Paradigm Signature S8 loudspeakers, the Beryllium tweeter has me in its grip. I'm getting a strong upgrade itch. Could someone give me a studied opinion about whether the Focal Electra 1038 would represent an upgrade for me? I have not heard the Focals yet ( and I have to travel a fair distance to hear them) but everything I read about them suggests that they have that listen all day quality about them. A local guy has a pair of Electra 1037s. Was there such a significant jump between the 1037 and 1038 that I should not consider it?

[Formerly YB-2]

Cannot comment on your Paradigms, but there are some very good deals to be had on new Electra's at the moment. My guess is they are being replaced by the Sopra line. Am very pleased with mine.

[Rod#S]

This seems to be the right place to ask this question. If I'm in the wrong location, perhaps someone could redirect me.

I listen through Paradigm Signature S8 loudspeakers, the Beryllium tweeter has me in its grip. I'm getting a strong upgrade itch. Could someone give me a studied opinion about whether the Focal Electra 1038 would represent an upgrade for me? I have not heard the Focals yet ( and I have to travel a fair distance to hear them) but everything I read about them suggests that they have that listen all day quality about them. A local guy has a pair of Electra 1037s. Was there such a significant jump between the 1037 and 1038 that I should not consider it?

Big Paradigm fan here, the S8's are great speakers and here in Canada represent a much better value than the 1038's. Aesthetically I like the Paradigm's more as well but it was a shame they dropped the exotic rosewood and bird's eye maple veneers many years ago.

So sound wise the Signatures were Paradigms stab at the higher end sound, making a speaker that could do very well with music and not just home theater which I think they achieved that very well. The Focals particularly the Electra and Utopia line and now the Sopra's have I think always been considered a speaker for music over home theater. Not to say they don't do well in home theater because of course they do a splendid job as do the Paradigm's.

The 1038 perhaps comes a cross as a bit more refined than the S8 but not enough here in Canada to justify the price difference for me personally. I could probably give the advantage of the mids to the 1038, they present as a warmer/softer sound. I think I prefer the bass of the S8's more.

Probably the clear winner will be the new Sopra tower based on people's initial impression of them. So it would seem if you want a clear distinction to look into the Sopra No2 or wait until the larger No3 comes along.

[Superfrg]

Rod, where did you hear about Sopra no 3's?

I've seen or heard no mention of a number 3 anywhere! :)

[Rod#S]

It was back when they were originally announced. It would either be somewhere perhaps here on these forums or over at AVS. A larger tower was rumored to be coming a little ways down the road after the initial launch.

[John49]

It was back when they were originally announced. It would either be somewhere perhaps here on these forums or over at AVS. A larger tower was rumored to be coming a little ways down the road after the initial launch.

That's what I heard too...

[scirica]

Cannot comment on your Paradigms, but there are some very good deals to be had on new Electra's at the moment. My guess is they are being replaced by the Sopra line. Am very pleased with mine.

We have no indication of Sopra replacing the Electra line. The deals to be had are mostly on the alternate finishes. You can get the black ash finish for $2000 less than the other finishes available on the Electra line. And that black ash is no slouch in the looks department. Seems that most just like the other finishes.

[Jagman]

And no slouch in the sound department either Steve:)

Over the past several weeks I got bit by the upgrade bug after auditioning a pair of Wilson Sabrina's. They are wonderful speakers but a bit too pricey at $16K for an entry level speaker for my money.

I had already spent a lot of time with the B&W 803 Diamonds since I had an opportunity to buy a pair of very gently used ones for a great price. To me these are overlooked speakers for some reason, but to me worth their full asking price of $10K. Awesome speakers.

Next I spent quite a lot of time with the Bowers 802 Diamonds, both at the dealer and at Joey from the forums house. Who can not like these speakers? Great full rich sound, beautiful build quality, very much a statement speaker that serves reference duty for many professional reviewers. I believe they are also a great value at $15K new and less on the preowned market.

I also listened seriously to the Sonus Faber Olympica 3's. Another speaker that seems to be somewhat overlooked. I really do love that speaker. So lush and full. I could listen to them all day with no fatigue. At $13.5K not necessarily over priced, but maybe a bit. $12K sounds about right.

Maybe the hardest thing I've done regarding a purchase decision was today. I had an incredible offer from a out of state dealer on a 3 year old pair of re-certified Wilson Sasha 1's. I passed on them only because I've never heard them and really don't have an opportunity to do so at the local Wilson dealer since I have no intention of buying them new. I don't want a demo only to then go buy elsewhere. Still shaking my head a bit on that decision and may live to regret it.

So on to the Focals. I spent 2 dedicated hours with the 1028be's on Tuesday of this week, followed by 2.5 hours with the 1038be's the following day. I had no history with them and had no real preconceived notions other than a few mostly good if not glowing reviews. To say I was impressed would be an understatement. I won't go on with the typical audiophile descriptions of what I heard, rather just say these are some very nice speakers. After hearing all of the speakers noted above in a very concentrated amount of time, these were at least as good as anything I heard, and if you like crisp, clean, fast, dynamic, articulate speakers, possibly better than any of them, you'll love these. As always it comes down to a matter a taste. There isn't a speaker that I have listened to that I would be unhappy with. The 802's are just such great speakers with such presence and authority. The 803's are extremely well integrated with better performance than they get credit for. The Sonus Fabers are a mystery to me as to why they aren't more highly acclaimed given their warm, lush, clean and dynamic character. They do nothing wrong and just about everything right, even more so than B&W's in my opinion. But man, those Focals! They grab you with a lively, very cohesive attack that take a back seat to nothing. Truly wonderful exciting speakers. They are at the very top of my list as I make my decision. I'm not 100% sure they'll be my purchase, but if I ever get past some remorse over passing on the Wilson's, there's a good chance they'll be my next speakers.

[Superfrg]

Cool writeup.

I like the Sonus Faber Olympica 3's too, and they were on my shortlist too.
The wood veneer is unbelievable.

All great speakers with big differences.

However, you should try to audition the sopras too! :)

[lordemsworth]

I've heard the Sopra 1 and 2s. Would like to hear them with something other than Naim amplification before making an opinion.

Liked what I heard enough to want to listen again.

[Superfrg]

I first heard the Sopras on NAIM gear and found them bland.
It was some of their lower series.

Worked out much better on Mark Levinson gear in the shop.

Without the proper gear match i've found they can also sound a bit dull at lower volumes.

[Jagman]

I first heard the Sopras on NAIM gear and found them bland.
It was some of their lower series.

Worked out much better on Mark Levinson gear in the shop.

Without the proper gear match i've found they can also sound a bit dull at lower volumes.

So the question is, removed from the near placebo effect of the "latest and greatest" how much if any better are they really than the 1038be's?
I don't think I've ever read about a new model whether it be cars, motorcycles, etc., that didn't initially get rave reviews on initial inspection only to be tempered over time. That's NOT to say the Sopras arent leaps beyond the Electra series, but it's always amazing that the older line that got all the superlatives tossed their way for years now becomes ready for retirement, ala the Wilson series of speakers that keep progressing. Speakers of the year one year, and then miles behind the next.

[Formerly YB-2]

We have no indication of Sopra replacing the Electra line. The deals to be had are mostly on the alternate finishes. You can get the black ash finish for $2000 less than the other finishes available on the Electra line. And that black ash is no slouch in the looks department. Seems that most just like the other finishes.
Was offered the 1038BeII, 1028BeII & the 1008BeII (my choice) at 40%+ off, all in piano black finish (or, again, my choice of finish if I did not mind waiting for them to ship). And have seen similar from other dealers on the piano black. Was unaware that they are offered in a 'black ash' finish. Have never seen an Electra in the black ash.

[Jagman]

Was offered the 1038BeII, 1028BeII & the 1008BeII (my choice) at 40%+ off, all in piano black finish (or, again, my choice of finish if I did not mind waiting for them to ship). And have seen similar from other dealers on the piano black. Was unaware that they are offered in a 'black ash' finish. Have never seen an Electra in the black ash.

I'm not sure why they are discounting so heavily...could be any number of reasons but I do know those are incredible deals on speakers of this quality.
I may be ordering 1038's Monday but the only real deal I was offered was on the black ash. If I were able to get any finish for 40% off on the 1038's my "may be ordering" would turn to "will be ordering." I'm not really concerned about the low luster black ash, but I REALLY like the Basalt or the glossy mahogany. I would not mind waiting at all.

[scirica]

Something just doesn't sound right here. I'm not doubting that someone has made this offer, but I know the Focal rep said no way 40% off. :lurk:

[Formerly YB-2]

Its my bad math. The number should be 25% (thuogh I did somewhat better). Shouldn't speak (type) before I calculate.

[Masterlu]

Just a friendly reminder; we don't discuss dealer discounts on the forum.

[scirica]

Just a friendly reminder; we don't discuss dealer discounts on the forum.

That is a good policy!

[Masterlu]

That is a good policy!

http://nowstar.net/god/prayers/art/loose-lips-sink-ships.jpg

;)

[lordemsworth]

So, three weeks on, and the acclimating period continues.

Was listening to a bunch of music - Michael Jackson, Blossom Dearie, some opera - and wow, the fullness of sound compared to my previous monitors is pretty surprising.

I've listened to 'Brian Wilson' by the BareNaked Ladies live version for over 15 years. I put that on yesterday afternoon, and I've always loved that the crowd joins into the song part of the way through. What I realized yesterday, was that the crowd begins singing right at the very beginning!

My brother-in-law came over yesterday and I put on some Ms Mr. I played, 'Fantasy'. He asked me to turn down the bass. I said there was no EQ. First time I've ever heard someone ask that in my modest systems.

The Focals deliver a very complete sound.

Will report more next weekend when I insert the Moon amp.

[Jagman]

So, three weeks on, and the acclimating period continues.

Was listening to a bunch of music - Michael Jackson, Blossom Dearie, some opera - and wow, the fullness of sound compared to my previous monitors is pretty surprising.

I've listened to 'Brian Wilson' by the BareNaked Ladies live version for over 15 years. I put that on yesterday afternoon, and I've always loved that the crowd joins into the song part of the way through. What I realized yesterday, was that the crowd begins singing right at the very beginning!

My brother-in-law came over yesterday and I put on some Ms Mr. I played, 'Fantasy'. He asked me to turn down the bass. I said there was no EQ. First time I've ever heard someone ask that in my modest systems.

The Focals deliver a very complete sound.

Will report more next weekend when I insert the Moon amp.
What kind of bass sounds were you getting that would cause someone to ask you to "turn it down?"

[lordemsworth]

I think it was the quality and quantity of bass - and the fact that my brother-in-law is a priss and doesn't like music at more than 'background' music levels.

:)

[sbk]

Congratulations on your purchase lordemsworth, these are some fine speakers!
I have their smaller brother - the 1028Be and I'm very satisfied with them.
It's interesting to hear what you mentioned about the bass, I guess it really depends on the room and posisioning of the speakers. With the 1028 I am actually considering to add a subwoofer (probably JL Fantom 112) to fill in the lower octave.
What Moon amp are you planning for?