Auditioning SME Model 20/3 Turntable

[Cody @ TARA]

Lately we at TARA Labs have been experimenting with a wide variety of turntables. Most notable of all has been the spectacular Walker Black Diamond Mk.III - however with a price ranging close to six digits, it is probably not for everyone.

Another fantastic turntable has been the SME Model 20/3. While I am reasonably familiar with hearing this particular model, it was the new SME Series V tonearm that really made it come to life. The inner detail and micro-dynamics produced a striking sense of realism and neutrality.

Anyone out there using SME components?

[fjn04]

Thanks for your comments on the SME. I am looking to upgrade my Analog front end, and have not seriously considered the SME. I am looking at Dr Feickert, which start lower in price than the SME 20/3. I have heard the Feickert once , and was very impressed. I plan on giving it another listen soon, as the dealer now has my amps, plus a different arm on the Feickert. I am also planning on listening to the Luxman table. SME tables often come up for sale, but of course they sell better than most. Cheers -Don

[Mikado463]

Cody, Great table (SME), if I weren't completely happy with my VPI Aries III, it or it's 'big brother' (30/2)would be seriously on my radar screen.

A few years back while helping to host the Martin Logan Owners gathering in Lawrence , Ks we took a ride over to visit Chad Kassem @ Acoustic Sounds in Salina. Chad's listening room was adorned with a lot of great gear, the SME being front and center, along with the Avalon Sentinels driven by PASS amplification ………to say the least it was a great afternoon.

I can't imagine you being disappointed with an SME TT

[Puma Cat]

Cody,
SME is one the great engineering houses in audio. They can manufacture products that companies at a level of mechanical engineering specification and quality that many companies couldn't hope to attain.

I have an SME V on my Michell Gyro SE MkII:

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/fujif31andf20photos/large/SME_V-4.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/fujif31andf20photos/large/The%20Cats.jpg

You can't go wrong with SME, IMO.

[JSCC]

Thanks for your comments on the SME. I am looking to upgrade my Analog front end, and have not seriously considered the SME. I am looking at Dr Feickert, which start lower in price than the SME 20/3. I have heard the Feickert once , and was very impressed. I plan on giving it another listen soon, as the dealer now has my amps, plus a different arm on the Feickert. I am also planning on listening to the Luxman table. SME tables often come up for sale, but of course they sell better than most. Cheers -Don

Feickert turntables are great. I have 2 arms mounted on the Firebird, the Ortofon 12 inches as well as a Triplanar. As for SME arms, had both the M2-9 on a fully restored Thorens TD160 Super with Origin Live Ultra Motor as well as the M2-12R on another fully restored Thorens TD125 MkII. I just love the vintage Thorens and crazy enough to collect 2.

In short, both Feickert and SME are great stuff.

Cheers

[Cody @ TARA]

Thanks for your comments on the SME. I am looking to upgrade my Analog front end, and have not seriously considered the SME. I am looking at Dr Feickert, which start lower in price than the SME 20/3. I have heard the Feickert once , and was very impressed. I plan on giving it another listen soon, as the dealer now has my amps, plus a different arm on the Feickert. I am also planning on listening to the Luxman table. SME tables often come up for sale, but of course they sell better than most. Cheers -Don

A few years ago I got to audition some Dr. Feickert Woodpecker and Blackbird turntables. From what I remember they both sounded great, but the Blackbird was a noticeable improvement over the former.

[patrick]

I have been running an SME 20/2 with V arm for last few years, after upgrading from a VPI Aries. I find it to be an excellent table and find it really easy to set up for the most part, though like all gear, it has its quirks. SME also a great company to deal with, they tend to treat customers right. Always struck me as curious that with all the forums out there, I never could find an SME owners forum or a place dedicated to examining their products. Maybe we should start one here? I’d be in!

[tom_hankins]

Eight years with the SME V arm, on various tables including Michell Gyro SE, SME 10, and the last few years on an Avid Sequel. To many cartridges to remember and SME worked well with them all. Benz LP-Smr on there now.

[John49]

Have had SME arms from 1973 onwards: 3009 S2 Improved, IV and V. Now defected to Durand and awaiting new armwand. Maybe I make big mistake...

[patrick]

Anyone use the damping trough on their arm? I’ve never tried, wondering if it is worth a go.

[John49]

Anyone use the damping trough on their arm? I’ve never tried, wondering if it is worth a go.

Never used the damping trough on the V, though I believe it does benefit some cartridges.

[427]

I have been using SME arms for a long time and feel they can't be beat. Of course that's just my opinion FWIW. Even their old 3009 works great and so many of them still around in the used market. So when the table needs a S arm that's my go to arm and even have used them on tables that could use a straight arm.

I have never tried a SME deck as I'm a big SOTA fan. So Cody you might as well give them a try also. I'm sure the Star Sapphire will give the SME a run for the money fitted with a Series V arm. But of course that the lowest in the vacuum platter decks @ SOTA, it's all up form there, Nova, Cosmos and Millennia.

At this point I have

1)Star Deck, SME Series V Arm, Sumiko Blackbird Cart

2)Star Deck, SME Series V Arm, Blackbird Cart

3)Star Deck SME 309 Arm, Sumiko EVO III

4)Star Deck SME 3009 Arm, Sumiko Virtuoso Talisman DTi

5) Michell Focus One Deck, SME 3009 Arm, Sumiko Virtuoso Talisman Boron

[metaphacts]

Never used the damping trough on the V, though I believe it does benefit some cartridges.

The damping trough, used properly, is the last step in the set up process. :thumbsup:

[antipop]

Have had SME arms from 1973 onwards: 3009 S2 Improved, IV and V. Now defected to Durand and awaiting new armwand. Maybe I make big mistake...
Hey John, any news on the Durand ? It seems like it's not an easy arm to setup.

My SME V should arrive any day but it is going straight back for rewiring and full check-up.

[patrick]

The damping trough, used properly, is the last step in the set up process. :thumbsup:

I can believe it but I am not sure I understand it -- can you tell us a little more about how you think it works for most uses? Does it affect arm movement?

[metaphacts]

I can believe it but I am not sure I understand it -- can you tell us a little more about how you think it works for most uses? Does it affect arm movement?

First read the instructions that come with the arm. They are very clear on how much fluid should be added and how the pin contacts the fluid.

Then realize that it takes a very long time for the fluid to settle once you have injected it into the trough.

The pin should barely touch the fluid - a wisp between it and the trough is the right amount.

Most put in way too much fluid and have way too much contact from the pin to the fluid. The damping is not to fix what you do not like. It is the last tiny, tiny, tiny step in the optimization of the arm. If the alignment, VTF, VTA, azimuth, and bolt tightness tuning are not yet done, you will not be able to properly assess the effect of the damping.

[patrick]

yes, I have the manual and understand what you are saying, but what I don’t understand is how it impacts the sonics and why?

[metaphacts]

yes, I have the manual and understand what you are saying, but what I don’t understand is how it impacts the sonics and why?

Why not try it and listen for yourself?

But again, if the other parameters are not yet fully dialed, any effect will be minimized or even worse, may be misconstrued.

[Jerome W]

Why not try it and listen for yourself? But again, if the other parameters are not yet fully dialed, any effect will be minimized or even worse, may be misconstrued.

Bill,
Nice to see you back my friend.
I missed you.

[John49]

Hey John, any news on the Durand ? It seems like it's not an easy arm to setup. My SME V should arrive any day but it is going straight back for rewiring and full check-up.

Hi Georges... So, did you not buy a new V? So far as I know, my Durand armwand is in Seattle WA, the rest in London UK!

[metaphacts]

Bill,
Nice to see you back my friend.
I missed you.

Bonjour Jerome,

Have not meant to be away so much but the I have been busier than ever with Transparent. Living in Maine is fantastic, even if we're working on our 6th snowstorm in a little over two weeks. Hope to be able to contribute a bit more going forward. Perhaps we can connect in Europe this year. Munich perhaps?

Be well my friend.
Bill

[antipop]

Hi Georges... So, did you not buy a new V? So far as I know, my Durand armwand is in Seattle WA, the rest in London UK!

I was almost going to buy a new one when I saw a used one listed on eBay. It was barely listed for less than a day and it had an amazing price. The rewiring will make sure that I have the latest spec and the arm will be checked-in.
It's as good as new for half the price.

[John49]

I was almost going to buy a new one when I saw a used one listed on eBay. It was barely listed for less than a day and it had an amazing price. The rewiring will make sure that I have the latest spec and the arm will be checked-in. It's as good as new for half the price.

Georges... Good to know that your wait paid off! It sometimes happens that way and I am very pleased you will have a new toy to play with!

[patrick]

Why not try it and listen for yourself?

But again, if the other parameters are not yet fully dialed, any effect will be minimized or even worse, may be misconstrued.

Wow---thanks.

[metaphacts]

Wow---thanks.

So you ask if it is worth a go. I say yes. :thumbsup:

I suggest it is a final part of set up and give an general outline of pitfalls/practices. :thumbsup:

Perhaps it might be a good idea to try it and listen. Just a thought. :dunno:

One last suggestion: be very, very very careful with the silicone. If you get it on the arm, do not try to remove with any alcohol based fluid. Should you do that and get the cleaner on the SME lettering, you will damage it. You really don't want to know what it costs for SME to repaint your arm tube. :eek: