Maggies and Tubes

[timm]

Hi all -- I am faced with a conundrum of sorts... but maybe a good one....

I currently have Martin Logan Odysseys biamped with a sunfire cinema grand signature.... Per the spec - this equates to 850 watts into the woofer and 850 watts into the panels into a 4 ohm load... divide that by 2 into an 8 ohm load.... this is all hooked up to a cary slp98p preamp....

My plan is to get some maggie 20.7s... However, this leaves me with a need for an amp for the secondary system.... or a better amp for the primary system.... Since the sunfire is a big solid state amp - my thought was -- could I get something that might be different - but great none the less... I need to hook up the sunfire to the maggies when I get them... and see how things go.... but, the other system at that point will be 'amp-less'..... I have a couple of solid state pre-amps I can utilize with the Martin Logan system but would need an amp....

So.... back to the OP's topic (that would be me)..... I saw this PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP stereo amp.. Produces 70w ultralinear mode.... but.... it has a mono switch on the back... so if you flip it - power doubles and if you purchase a second one - you have two mono-blocks w 150-175 watts (depending on tube choice).... This seemed interesting to me - since I could essentially buy one - possibly use it on the ML system (or if it sounds better on the maggies)... The ML system would be for casual listening ....

What are your thoughts on this? It allows me to create a big mono-block possibility in the future - if the maggies are happy with tube amplification with this type of power etc.... and also gets me an amp for my secondary system now....... Or if the sunfire just sounds great with the mags - I just stay with the stereo amp and not get the monoblock addition down the road

Give me some feedback on tubes (150-175 watts worth of tubes) and maggies... I am hoping the stats will be fine for non-critical listening....(i.e. - I put it on when we are eating dinner...or sitting on the deck outside.... The current system is located near both areas....

[harri009]

Amps I have used with my 3.7's include a 300 wpc krell SS, 185 wpc Emotiva SS, 700 wpc pass lab SS, 200 wpc pass labs SS, 75 wpc Cayin tube, 400 wpc Modwright SS, 900 wpc Sanders Magtech SS, 500 wpc BAT SS, and my current 180 wpc Rogue M180's Tube. Thus far the only amps I felt were to underpowered to actually use was the cayin and the emotiva. The 200wpc pass labs are class A and I never felt like they were running out of juice. The Rogue M180's are plenty of power for me but I think 180-200wpc class A or tube power is about as low as you can get away with.

[timm]

Amps I have used with my 3.7's include a 300 wpc krell SS, 185 wpc Emotiva SS, 700 wpc pass lab SS, 200 wpc pass labs SS, 75 wpc Cayin tube, 400 wpc Modwright SS, 900 wpc Sanders Magtech SS, 500 wpc BAT SS, and my current 180 wpc Rogue M180's Tube. Thus far the only amps I felt were to underpowered to actually use was the cayin and the emotiva. The 200wpc pass labs are class and and I never felt like they were running out of juice. The Rogue M180's are plenty of power for me but I think 180-200wpc class A or tube power is about as low as you can get away with.

Harri009 -- are the Rogues your favorite amps you have tried?

[harri009]

Harri009 -- are the Rogues your favorite amps you have tried?

Favorite would probably be the Pass XA100.5's but the Rogues are probably number 2. If you have the coin for some 100.5's or 160.5's I say go that route. If you only have about 3k to spend the M180's are excellent

[Robert_Anderson]

I went from ARC to Krell for more raw power (I have 20.1's), and I am now buying harri009's Pass Labs, which are the best solid state I have heard with Maggies.

[harri009]

I went from ARC to Krell for more raw power (I have 20.1's), and I am now buying harri009's Pass Labs, which are the best solid state I have heard with Maggies.

And I only sold so that I could fund an analog setup

[CGabriel]

Amps I have used with my 3.7's include a 300 wpc krell SS, 185 wpc Emotiva SS, 700 wpc pass lab SS, 200 wpc pass labs SS, 75 wpc Cayin tube, 400 wpc Modwright SS, 900 wpc Sanders Magtech SS, 500 wpc BAT SS, and my current 180 wpc Rogue M180's Tube. Thus far the only amps I felt were to underpowered to actually use was the cayin and the emotiva. The 200wpc pass labs are class A and I never felt like they were running out of juice. The Rogue M180's are plenty of power for me but I think 180-200wpc class A or tube power is about as low as you can get away with.

What would you say are differences between the Magtech and the Pass Labs?

[harri009]

What would you say are differences between the Magtech and the Pass Labs?

It's been a while since I owned the Magtech and at the time the direct comparison was with a X350.5. The only thing I remember as notable was that the Magtech was darker. :/ been to long

[wildcat82]

It's been a while since I owned the Magtech and at the time the direct comparison was with a X350.5. The only thing I remember as notable was that the Magtech was darker. :/ been to long

Although I have never heard a Pass amp (would love to though) I do have a Magtech and would not call it a dark sound, in fact its as neutral as any amp I have ever owned and matches perfectly with my 20.7s.
As for tubes vs SS for Maggies, I prefer SS for amp(s) and tubs for source devices. Maggies need power and LOTS of it to sound their best and this means a really good power supply (read about the Magtech Power supply), Magnepan states this on their website too.

There are some decent sized tube amps available however, very few get to the level (and at what cost?) that the big Maggies require to sound their best.

Brett

[harri009]

Although I have never heard a Pass amp (would love to though) I do have a Magtech and would not call it a dark sound, in fact its as neutral as any amp I have ever owned and matches perfectly with my 20.7s. As for tubes vs SS for Maggies, I prefer SS for amp(s) and tubs for source devices. Maggies need power and LOTS of it to sound their best and this means a really good power supply (read about the Magtech Power supply), Magnepan states this on their website too. There are some decent sized tube amps available however, very few get to the level (and at what cost?) that the big Maggies require to sound their best. Brett

I would not call it dark either, in A/B comparison to the 350.5 it was darker though

[Robert_Anderson]

How did the 350.5 compare to the 100.5's?

[harri009]

How did the 350.5 compare to the 100.5's?

I was not able to do the A/B with the 350.5 to the 100.5's but was able to with the older X350. The 100.5 was a much more natural sound with greater width, depth, and everything was more pin point. It was a nice improvement.

[cma29]

Although I have never heard a Pass amp (would love to though) I do have a Magtech and would not call it a dark sound, in fact its as neutral as any amp I have ever owned and matches perfectly with my 20.7s.
As for tubes vs SS for Maggies, I prefer SS for amp(s) and tubs for source devices. Maggies need power and LOTS of it to sound their best and this means a really good power supply (read about the Magtech Power supply), Magnepan states this on their website too.

There are some decent sized tube amps available however, very few get to the level (and at what cost?) that the big Maggies require to sound their best.

Brett

+1

I agree that the best match for the 20.7s is a solid state amp with a large power supply.

[timm]

This is very helpful guys. I appreciate it. I am going to try out my sunfire and see how it goes. I am not sure how it compares to something like a magtech but it does run very cool has tons of power etc. I am not sure if anyone has compared the two amps but they both double down into 4 ohm... Both run cool... Both are meant to drive stats with crazy loads. Just wondered if anyone has heard the sunfire signature and a magtech. I have heard very good reviews on the magtech. i also know another though that has traded it in for pass and he was a sanders bigot!! ithink the pass xa100.5s might be out of the price range however.

[cma29]

This is very helpful guys. I appreciate it. I am going to try out my sunfire and see how it goes. I am not sure how it compares to something like a magtech but it does run very cool has tons of power etc. I am not sure if anyone has compared the two amps but they both double down into 4 ohm... Both run cool... Both are meant to drive stats with crazy loads. Just wondered if anyone has heard the sunfire signature and a magtech. I have heard very good reviews on the magtech. i also know another though that has traded it in for pass and he was a sanders bigot!! ithink the pass xa100.5s might be out of the price range however.

Tim - No need to do everything at once. Get your 20.7s and see how they integrate with the rest of your system / room. Once you get a handle on its character you can tweak other parts of your system. I got my 20.7s in March 2013 and did not arrive at the system I have now until mid-2014. :thumbsup:

[wildcat82]

Tim - No need to do everything at once. Get your 20.7s and see how they integrate with the rest of your system / room. Once you get a handle on its character you can tweak other parts of your system. I got my 20.7s in March 2013 and did not arrive at the system I have now until mid-2014. :thumbsup:

+1

I agree with Carlos, grow your system in steps and enjoy the process. I have been building my system for over 30 years and its still not done.

Brett

[timm]

Haha. Thanks for talking me off the ledge!! But really I am so slow about these decisions and methodical. I heard the 20.1 7 years ago and continued to think about them. A sickness I think!! :). But now I'm at a place where I have some out of sight out of mind money. And it's time. Looking at a spring arrival!!

[Hifisand]

timm,
I have 3.7s with DWN woofers. Using ARC D -150 on 3.7s and Parasound 200W SS on the woofers. I am planning to get the new PS Audio BHK Signature Amp when it comes out in March or April. Heard it at RMAF on Infinity Betas. Very good.
The D-150 replaced Parasound JC-1s, which were good also at 800w. The PSA BHK will be better than JC-1s.

[arteck]

timm, I have 3.7s with DWN woofers. Using ARC D -150 on 3.7s and Parasound 200W SS on the woofers. I am planning to get the new PS Audio BHK Signature Amp when it comes out in March or April. Heard it at RMAF on Infinity Betas. Very good. The D-150 replaced Parasound JC-1s, which were good also at 800w. The PSA BHK will be better than JC-1s.

Hi, have you get the BHK?

[Q3Di]

Many people prefer SS to drive Maggies. I sold my McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe monoblock and BAT VK-6200 mult-ch amp before I got 3.7. Right now, I am using a pair of BAT VK-55's to drive 3.7 without problem. These beasts provide 110 watt per block.

[Skypickle]

would a c452 macintosh fit well with the maggies?

[vegaracer1]

I run Cary Audio 500.1 solid state monoblocks with a tube preamp on my Maggie 3.7. Sounds pretty good.

[wildcat82]

would a c452 macintosh fit well with the maggies?

I had a 452 with my 3.7s and the the current 20.7s, I also tried 2 601s. I was not overwhelmed so I ordered a Sanders Magtech from Roger Sanders, the difference
was amazing, the Magtech blew the Macs out of the water, it was not even cloae. Save yourself some $ and try the Mactech!

[Skypickle]

I had a 452 with my 3.7s and the the current 20.7s, I also tried 2 601s. I was not overwhelmed so I ordered a Sanders Magtech from Roger Sanders, the difference
was amazing, the Magtech blew the Macs out of the water, it was not even cloae. Save yourself some $ and try the Mactech!

monoblocks? or the ESL?

When you say 'blew the Macs out of the water' - how? Warmer? smoother?
What did you listen to?

[Avid]

I had a magtech stereo amp with 3.7's and it was ok but didn't blow me out. I really like the way the tube monoblocks (Eros 300's) powered them and I had some Bryston 28bsst2's that controlled the crap out of them. Maybe my experience would have been different with the monoblock magtechs dunno

[wildcat82]

monoblocks? or the ESL?

When you say 'blew the Macs out of the water' - how? Warmer? smoother?
What did you listen to?

I listent to jazz, classical and new age. The stereo Magtech provided a much deeper sound stage and significantly more bass that was tight and very detailed.

Brett

[zonto]

Any other Magtech owners here? Been eyeing this amp for a while now.

[hobie1dog]

Big Maggie's are great performers with 500 watts per channel, been there, done that. Show up with less power and get so-so sound.

[ehoove]

You can get away with less power if you actively tri-amp or bi amp them. I run SS (300 RMS each)to the bass panels, and tubes to the midrange panels(60 RMS each) and ribbons (30 RMS each). You do need the right amps as the ribbons dip rather low ohm wise.
Regards,
Jim

[pwhinson]

I'm taking delivery on a pair of used 20.7's tomorrow and will be driving them with a Pass 150.8 (which I already have). Kent at Pass said he has heard the XA100.8's on the Magnepans and the X150.8 and he liked the X150.8 better. I would have thought that perhaps I need more power than what the X150.8 can produce but remember that this amp doesn't clip until 225-250 per channel in to 8 ohms and almost twice that into 4 ohms. We'll see soon enough.

[timm]

I'm taking delivery on a pair of used 20.7's tomorrow and will be driving them with a Pass 150.8 (which I already have). Kent at Pass said he has heard the XA100.8's on the Magnepans and the X150.8 and he liked the X150.8 better. I would have thought that perhaps I need more power than what the X150.8 can produce but remember that this amp doesn't clip until 225-250 per channel in to 8 ohms and almost twice that into 4 ohms. We'll see soon enough.

I think you are going to be a happy camper. Report out on how things are going!!

[pwhinson]

Well Its been a week now and I'm pretty happy with the 20.7's and the Pass 150.8 hardly breaks a sweat driving them to peaks in excess of 90db. For those of you familiar with the Pass .8 series, the needle on the amp rarely bounces up to the 12 o'clock mark and as I said Kent said the amp won't clip until that meter hits a hard 4 o'clock so the amp is really just loafing along. If I punch it up to peaks of 95db-100db (too loud for me), I can get to 1 o'clock on the amp. NOW I know most people would say the 150.8 isn't big enough for the 20.7's but it sure seems to be enough power to me.

[Formerly YB-2]

For what its worth, a friend's pair of 2.3s (? true ribbons) sounds wonderful being driven with his pair of Luxman 3045 tube mono-blocks running 6550 output tubes. IIRC they put out 30wpc.

[timm]

Well Its been a week now and I'm pretty happy with the 20.7's and the Pass 150.8 hardly breaks a sweat driving them to peaks in excess of 90db. For those of you familiar with the Pass .8 series, the needle on the amp rarely bounces up to the 12 o'clock mark and as I said Kent said the amp won't clip until that meter hits a hard 4 o'clock so the amp is really just loafing along. If I punch it up to peaks of 95db-100db (too loud for me), I can get to 1 o'clock on the amp. NOW I know most people would say the 150.8 isn't big enough for the 20.7's but it sure seems to be enough power to me.

Sounds like things are coming along. Definitely expect some break in. I think the pass is fine. More than fine!! :)

[Beet Farmer]

With my Magnepan 20.7 one year anniversary just past.. I am thinking about finally replacing the amplifier I had kept that I bought with the previous Magnepan 3.6 speaker I had... A Bryston 4B-SST².
Most of my thoughts have been to getting either a 14B3 Bryston, or a pair of Bryston 7B3 amps.
However I am fascinated by the Carver 350 amps. And just as odd, in a 'synchronistic' kind of way, my Magnepan/Bryston dealer 'magically now is carrying Carver... Who would have thought???
I am not ready to run out and buy anything right now.. but I am thinking about it. (usually I think about stuff for months.. years.. then suddenly do it)
So I am thinking about these Carver Crimson 350 amps.
My dealer does not have those as demo items just the Carver 275. Which , when I am closer to being ready to buy, I could probably borrow for a few days.
So no conclusions, just an idea.._

[timm]

wow. That is going to be a big change from the bryston. It will be a great a/b and my hunch is you won’t be on the fence depending on your tastes. :).

[6dj8]

I ran 3.6's with an ARC D125 tube amps with great results for years.

The ARC D125 was 110 w/c into 4 ohms.

An FET front end, with 8 6550's in the output.

I have a medium sized room, and never playback at much more than 92 dB peaks, at my listening spot, 9 feet from the 3.6's.

I do not see the need for mega power, but want very high quality watts.

Watts needed depend on playback volume, quality of amp, and room size.

[tdh888]

Has anybody tried using a high powered tube amp (ARC REF 610T , 750’s , VTL Wotan’s , Siegfried ‘s , 750’s ) w / the Magnepan 3.6/3.7/ 20.1 . The high powered tube amp that I heard w/ a pair of 3.6 was my former vintage ARC D250 MK2 Servo at my friend’s home . Bass was a little bloated , not tight even when the 3.6 had Mye Stand’s . I’ve tried my ARC REF610T’s w/ factory upgraded KT120’s w/ my factory rebuilt MG3A w/ stock outboard crossover’s and it did sound a little analytical , bright w/ not much bloom .