Focal Stella, Sonus Faber Lilium or TAD R-1 speakers

[amorrisjr]

An upgrade from my current Focal 1038Be speakers is in my 2015/2016 plans and I would appreciate comments and comparisons of the listed speakers from those with prior experience. Others suggestions in the 75-100K range would also be appreciated. I like the current Focals but am looking to move up in performance and have been impressed by comments from Ivan on the Sonus Faber and TAD speaker lines.

My current system is Krell 600e monoblocks, Esoteric K-1 player, Esoteric C-2 pre-amp with an order for a Esoteric G-01 in the next 4-6 weeks. Thanks

[Masterlu]

I haven't heard the Lilium yet, but the R1's sure are amazing! ;)

[Still-One]

Those are three fine speakers. I have heard them all. The Liliums powered by MC 601's and the new AR G amp, the TAD's with Tad gear, and the Focals by Accuphase. I think I could be happy with any of the three, but I would probably lean to the Focal's. Before I made a final decision I would want to hear them with my gear first.

[-E-]

I'm with Jim on this one. My only pullback would be the Krell dryness with the Focal top-end. First world problem, I know, I know... ;)

[amorrisjr]

Thanks for the feedback. I hate to ask the question, but how do you describe dryness and is there a wide range in this characteristic among amps? This is my first venture into high end audio so I am learning as I go and have tried to invest for long term rather than make periodic changes. I anticipate the addition of the G-01 clock and the speaker upgrade to be my last major expense for quite a while. Thanks again

[audioguy3107]

Thanks for the feedback. I hate to ask the question, but how do you describe dryness and is there a wide range in this characteristic among amps? This is my first venture into high end audio so I am learning as I go and have tried to invest for long term rather than make periodic changes. I anticipate the addition of the G-01 clock and the speaker upgrade to be my last major expense for quite a while. Thanks again

I'm not the best at audio descriptions, but I'll take a shot at it......I would characterize dryness is a hardness or slight harshness in the upper treble that you may hear with vocals, especially female vocals. Imagine listening to a vocalist that has a bit of an edge rather than a warm, smooth sound that you may feel like you want to turn up the volume, even at higher listening levels. That's one of the criteria I always use when it comes to sound quality.....if I want to keep turning up the volume, I know I have a warm, smooth, natural sounding recording. Sometimes equipment that may be on the dryer side can also exhibit a little less of the upper midbass which can tend to "warm up" a recording. Different manufacturers can tend to have a signature sound, for example, McIntosh amplifiers are often described as having a warmer smoother sound rather than the more analytical sound. you've got a fine selection of candidates to audition, but as we were discussing in another thread, I don't think I'd purchase another pair of loudspeakers in that range without first auditioning a pair of Vivid Audio G1 Giyas......they seem to be taking all the loudspeaker reviewers by storm the last couple of years. I'd have to audition those before I made a final choice. As an Avalon Acoustics fan (they just don't get a lot of press), the Isis would be another must audition.....they are on the short list of best loudspeakers in the world. Those would be my top 2 along with the TADs on the list.

- Buck

[audioguy3107]

Here's a pic of the Isis......I'd love to hear a pair but not sure who would have a pair on demo.

http://audiophilereview.com/images/speakers/AVALON-ACOUSTICS-ISIS.jpg

[C2300MC275]

I agree with previous comments. I would take the Focals but change out my pre to an Audio Research ref 10.

I run Focal Maestros with Krell 750mcx's and audio research ref 3 pre. Massive soundstage, dynamic, very musical and great vocals.

[Washline]

I've heard that the newer Focals work better with the newer Krell gear though I've yet to hear the combination myself. I would also check out the Audiomachina Maestro S. I listened to the Pure System a few years ago, and I thought it was the best pair of speakers I heard up until that time, and I'm a big fan of Focal.

[bart]

If you have a large room, in that price range there is also the Avantgarde Acoustic Trio. With a basshorn, the best set-up I have heard so far.
Second best for me: my Vivid Audio's. G1's if you have the space, G2's deliver 95% of the G1's performance.

http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/tl_files/avantgarde/user_galleries/2012-05-08-ome/tomAV1.jpg

[vinod_david]

Oh! that Avantgarde look beautiful.

[bart]

David, I saw and heard them in red and they are indeed a joy to look at. :yes:

[Apexorca]

I really like all of these 3 speakers. They are among the best. It's all about personal taste.
TAD is the more naked one, a little bit harder voiced than the other two. Clean and dynamic. The most technical sound with great resolution, but still very musical. The only small thing is that I think it's a little bit to much upp in your face. The music can almost be a little bit to much and not so relaxing, in my ears. But still I could really love them in my home. We are talking about small differences.
What I can remember is that SF Lilium and Focal is more alike. The slight more romantic touch to the music and the airy analogue feel in the voice reproduction is better in Lilium. Thought, maybe Lillium can be on of the most neutral SF speaker jet and with really good dynamics and resolution to. More easy to be relaxed when listen to it.
Focal is more in the middle of these speakers but closer to Lillium than TAD in the voicing.
What I know fore sure is that SF and Krell works extremely well together. As TAD and Krell.

Love the look of Lillium. It's a better designed furniture and the finish is state of the art. But again, thats just my taste.

You could also try Wilson Alexia. I'v heard it several times. but it does not reach the high level i would expect it to. I think Sofia III, Sasha and Max III is more musical and more fun to liten to thought.

This journey of yours, is great fun to be able to do. Listen a lot to different system is the key to find your own ideal.

I hope my personal opinion can guide you somehow.

Good luck.

[amorrisjr]

I missed this earlier, but I question why you suggested a change from the highly acclaimed Esoteric C-02 preamp to AR Ref 10 preamp. I have no personal experience AR products, but it does seem there owners like to sing their praise, ad nasuem. What are the benefits that you presume will be forthcoming from such a switch?.

The C02 stand alone review provided a critical evaluation of the new unit and its contribution to SQ improvement and expanded soundstage and gave glowing praises. When the two piece Esoteric C1 preamp was introduced, one critical review said it would have to be a SOTA ("state of the art") machine to best the C-02, and it did. The comparison of the C1 to the C-02 may have been due to the paucity of competitive preamps. Only the Burmester preamps, in the less than $80K category is worthy of comparison to the C1i and maybe even the C2 as well.

The C-02 is my preamp until I move to the C1

[SuperD]

I haven't heard them yet but you may want to include the Rockport Cygnus to the mix ($62,500). I believe they are being released very soon and there are a few reviews out there. You have a lot of very nice options to listen to...Have fun!

[C2300MC275]

I missed this earlier, but I question why you suggested a change from the highly acclaimed Esoteric C-02 preamp to AR Ref 10 preamp. I have no personal experience AR products, but it does seem there owners like to sing their praise, ad nasuem. What are the benefits that you presume will be forthcoming from such a switch?.

The C02 stand alone review provided a critical evaluation of the new unit and its contribution to SQ improvement and expanded soundstage and gave glowing praises. When the two piece Esoteric C1 preamp was introduced, one critical review said it would have to be a SOTA ("state of the art") machine to best the C-02, and it did. The comparison of the C1 to the C-02 may have been due to the paucity of competitive preamps. Only the Burmester preamps, in the less than $80K category is worthy of comparison to the C1i and maybe even the C2 as well.

The C-02 is my preamp until I move to the C1

I am sure in the right system, it would be truly magnificent. My comment on ref 10 was specially in relation to if you go for Focal Stella and use Krell to power. The ref 10 will add that extra dimensionality / 3d imaging but critically also maintaining a real fluidity with the upper Focal register which needs to be matched carefully. If you were to use the Krell preamp and your Krell monoblocks then that match would be definitely I the wrong direction imho - for me you would have listener fatigue quickly although it would have super resolution and dynamics.

It is all about synergy here and the big Focals do like some valves in their amplification chain.