Esoteric g-02 + k-03

[phunge]

Has anyone tried the g-02 clock with a k-03? I have been wondering if it could improve my already wonderful k-03.

If using the USB input, would you need to change the clock frequency each time you play a file with a different sample rate?

The g-01 would clearly be an improvement, but cannot justify that level of spend.

[djwhog]

I will be following this thread.

[Masterlu]

Has anyone tried the g-02 clock with a k-03? I have been wondering if it could improve my already wonderful k-03.

If using the USB input, would you need to change the clock frequency each time you play a file with a different sample rate?

The g-01 would clearly be an improvement, but cannot justify that level of spend.

Save your money, the clock inside your K03 is superior to the G02.

[djwhog]

Be better to sell the 03 and get a K01 I think is the next step up the chain.

I was thinking that was what the Master was going to say.. Thanks Ivan :)

[phunge]

Save your money, the clock inside your K03 is superior to the G02.

Thanks Ivan! This is what I was thinking. From the K03 spec sheet:

A newly designed high-precision clock is implemented to achieve the highest level of sound quality for an all-in-one digital player. A VCXO (voltage controlled crystal oscillator) of +/- 0.5 ppm (*2) that uses a large crystal is deployed in the K-01/K-03 for advanced sound quality. A stabilized power
supply circuit improves the stability of the new clock. When using the K- 01/K-03 without using an external WORD clock, the high precision audio clock signal generated by the VCXO is directly delivered to the D/A converter, without passing through the PLL circuit. This enables higher- quality reproduction, substantially reducing any audible jitter. (*2) Factory setting

While the G-02 clock says:

The master clock generator uses a high precision crystal oscillator with a frequency precision of +/-0.01 ppm (parts per million) that is provided with custom tuning designed specifically for ESOTERIC. G-02 has a built-in, oven-controlled crystal oscillator (OCXO) that generates stable oscillation under varying conditions. This is made possible by assembling a quartz crystal resonator and oscillation circuit in an oven that maintains the internal crystal and critical circuitry at a constant temperature. G-02 achieves a very high frequency stability of +/-0.01 ppm under external temperature conditions of –20 °C to 70°C.


There is some additional text in the G-02 brochure talking about the driver circuit, etc. but it seems pretty far off the G-01 specs and pretty close to the K-03 specs.

I agree that the more logical upgrade would be to the K-01 but was just curious as I have seen plenty of pictures (google K-03 G-02 esoteric) of the two units together so thought it might we worth exploring.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Thanks Ivan! This is what I was thinking. From the K03 spec sheet:



While the G-02 clock says:



There is some additional text in the G-02 brochure talking about the driver circuit, etc. but it seems pretty far off the G-01 specs and pretty close to the K-03 specs.

I agree that the more logical upgrade would be to the K-01 but was just curious as I have seen plenty of pictures (google K-03 G-02 esoteric) of the two units together so thought it might we worth exploring.

Hi Phunge,

The G-02 clock appears to be 50 times more accurate than the K-01, K-01X, K-03 and K-03X clocks. However, the G-01 is 10,000 times more accurate. I'm not sure that 50 times more accurate will be an audible improvement in sound quality. However, 10,000 times with the G-01 is a no brainer.

Best,
Ken

[analog brother]

anybody using g-01 with k-03?
significant improvements.......????

[Colekat]

Thanks Ivan! This is what I was thinking. From the K03 spec sheet:



While the G-02 clock says:



There is some additional text in the G-02 brochure talking about the driver circuit, etc. but it seems pretty far off the G-01 specs and pretty close to the K-03 specs.

I agree that the more logical upgrade would be to the K-01 but was just curious as I have seen plenty of pictures (google K-03 G-02 esoteric) of the two units together so thought it might we worth exploring.
Hey Phunge, I have the G-01 clock in my set- up, and noticed a big difference when I put it in, and then had a problem with the clock and had to send it back to Esoteric. With-out the clock is when I noticed the difference even more. Point is clocks are very controversial, and you should here it in your system if you can. I think you will here a difference with the G-02... I think the biggest difference comes from the power supply and separate chassis, but cables must be good also.
My guess is that you would be pleasantly surprised, more than you think. Try to get a listen first though.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Hey Phunge, I have the G-01 clock in my set- up, and noticed a big difference when I put it in, and then had a problem with the clock and had to send it back to Esoteric. With-out the clock is when I noticed the difference even more. Point is clocks are very controversial, and you should here it in your system if you can. I think you will here a difference with the G-02... I think the biggest difference comes from the power supply and separate chassis, but cables must be good also.
My guess is that you would be pleasantly surprised, more than you think. Try to get a listen first though.

Hi Tom,

I hope all is well with you. How is your system coming along in the new room? I know you made some major upgrades! :music:

Best,
Ken

[phunge]

Hey Phunge, I have the G-01 clock in my set- up, and noticed a big difference when I put it in, and then had a problem with the clock and had to send it back to Esoteric. With-out the clock is when I noticed the difference even more. Point is clocks are very controversial, and you should here it in your system if you can. I think you will here a difference with the G-02... I think the biggest difference comes from the power supply and separate chassis, but cables must be good also.
My guess is that you would be pleasantly surprised, more than you think. Try to get a listen first though.

Interesting, Thanks for the perspective. I may look into this further to see if I can listen myself, that is excellent advice. It would seem the G-02 is improved over the G-03X, which I found referenced in the soundstage review of the K-03 (http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=326:esoteric-k-03-sacdcd-playerdac&catid=55:full-length-reviews&Itemid=4):
Esoteric also says that the K-03’s onboard word clock is substantially advanced over past designs: The clock uses a voltage-controlled crystal oscillator (VCXO) with an accuracy of ±0.5 parts per million (ppm); a stabilized power-supply circuit improves the stability of the clock’s operation; and the clock sync signal is directly delivered to the DACs without passing through the phase-locked loop circuit. According to Esoteric, all of this substantially reduces audible jitter.

For improved performance, the K-03 can be used with an external word clock such as Esoteric’s own G-03X ($5000) or G-0Rb ($20,000). But the company claims that the K-03’s own clock is so good that switching from its ±0.5ppm to the G-03X’s ±0.1ppm will yield only a modest improvement in sound quality. For a serious sonic improvement, Esoteric advises moving up to the G-0Rb, whose rubidium generator, they claim, is accurate to ±0.05 parts per billion.


I just can't see spending for the rubidium clock, which is twice the price of the K-03 itself. I am not unhappy with the K-03 either -- just the opposite. it is far better than the ayre c-5xeMP it replaced, and I am absolutely thrilled with it. It has not disappointed in any way, but I am interested if its performance can be boosted even further with the addition of the G-02. Perhaps, though, the money is better spent elsewhere, say cables or power conditioning.

One question I still have have: When using an external clock in combination with the USB input, do I need to switch the clock frequency when playing back files with different sample rates? That would be a pain.

[Colekat]

Interesting, Thanks for the perspective. I may look into this further to see if I can listen myself, that is excellent advice. It would seem the G-02 is improved over the G-03X, which I found referenced in the soundstage review of the K-03 (http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=326:esoteric-k-03-sacdcd-playerdac&catid=55:full-length-reviews&Itemid=4):


I just can't see spending for the rubidium clock, which is twice the price of the K-03 itself. I am not unhappy with the K-03 either -- just the opposite. it is far better than the ayre c-5xeMP it replaced, and I am absolutely thrilled with it. It has not disappointed in any way, but I am interested if its performance can be boosted even further with the addition of the G-02. Perhaps, though, the money is better spent elsewhere, say cables or power conditioning.

One question I still have have: When using an external clock in combination with the USB input, do I need to switch the clock frequency when playing back files with different sample rates? That would be a pain.
No, most likely you will be using the clock at the highest frequency possible, and the player will up sample the input, that is if you choose to upsample.
I was discouraged from buying the clock due to skeptisism not only by the audio world in general, but even Esoteric in a letter to then lead US guy Tim Crable, who said, " I would hear only incremental increase in sound quality", mostly timbral accuracy and high frequency realism.
Then I visited Ivan who has the G-01 with K-01 on his reference system. Now take into consideration his system is World Class and blew me away without the clock. But when he on/off the clock I was stunned. Now, the all around quality of the system, or maybe just a little bit of sirrendipity, but I have yet talked to anyone who has tried a clock without some noted change in presentation.
You owe it to yourself when you get the chance to at least audition a clock in your system. As for Esoteric's advice, they could not have been more off base about the G-01 in my system. I would not listen without it, if I have the choice.
Anyway, good luck with your decision.
Tom

[justubes]

There are sufficient reports by users stating an improvement in SQ, whether it is a midranged priced clock to the ultra expensive like the G-01 and BVA 10m references.

I have played with the DCS pucinni clock (call it a midrange clock) and a 10M reference by Quartlock (which is midranged priced, but with comparable or slightly superior specs of the G-01).

They have all made an improvement, there is no way to quantify the changes brought.

I can conclude the basic improvements are a more sold bass, clarity, improved separation and openess.

As a clock always requires an additional PC and digital cable. It was apparent that these cables (especially the digital) again brought another leap in performance greater than with just the inclusion of the clock. In combination, the magnitude of improvement is brought about is now something essential in the music playback experience.

Top end players without the clock now just sounds messy in comparison.

Go for the G-02 but factor in good cables in your purchase comparison. Average cables will still bring an improvement, but nowhere near where a well setup clock brings.

FWIW, the cables used cost more than the clocks used under test and was well worth the improvement!

[phunge]

Hmm, in the K-03x brochure I found this tidbit:

Upgrade Services
Upgrade services are available for the K-01 or K-03 where specific new functions employed by X edition models can be added.
Applicable models : K-01, K-03
Details : USB input capability extended (Compatible with 2.8 MHz DSD and 384 kHz/32-bit PCM*)
Allows synchronization with an external master clock generator or 10 MHz clock signal when the USB input is selected.
*Not compatible with 5.6 MHz DSD.


This implies that the K-03 (non 'x') cannot sync with an external clock when using USB? If true, then the 'x' upgrade would be important, even though I don't care about DSD.

Also from the K-03x brochure:
Clock Sync Function for Synchronization with External Devices
Connecting the unit to a high-precision master clock generator (G-01, G-02) allows synchronization of the unit’s operation with an external clock signal, thereby enabling the sound quality of the system to be upgraded. Input frequencies are 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz, as well as 10 MHz and 22 MHz direct master clock linkage.* Synchronization with external clocks is also supported when the USB input is used. When an external clock generator is connected, its signal is also used to clock the D/A converter, bypassing the internal PLL circuit and providing higher precision D/A conversion.

This makes me think that if you were playing 24/96 material back via USB, then you would need a 10Mhz universal clock signal from the G-02? I am waiting for the 'xl user manuals to be posted online, maybe they will have more detail on using an external clock with USB.

Colekat, Justubes, thanks for your input!

[justubes]

I use a 10mhz clock, however, it seems that the x series takes this as a clock input and not master clock. There is a choice of word clock and master clock.

I believe that the master clock frequency is 22mhz which the g01 and g02 can output. I too am wondering if it is even better to use 22mhz or the highest possible frequency as the master clock.

External rubidium modules dont provide up to 22mhz, typically 5mhz or 10mhz. It is noted that the g01 uses a stanford 10mhz rubidium module which the g02 does not have, g02 uses ocxo.

I did post for opinions on whether selecting 10m or 22m gives the best result, but havent gotten any replies. 10mhz rubidium outputs the lowest phase noise and this gets worst at higher frequencies, i.e 22mhz. I am baffled why 10mhz is not considered master clock in the selection clock menu.

Basically, usb input of the x gets to sync with an external clock, that is, if one was used. The old k series doesnt sync to the external clock via usb connection.

24/96 is still pcm and not DSD. DSD streaming via the updated usb is at 2.8mhz and 5.6mhz(only in the new x series) is called 64x DSD and 128x DSD. So this would make the new player future proof and a move away from cd which is limited to redbook. I guess it is a matter of time where DSD 128 played from computer or capable streamer will be the way to the future of music.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Hmm, in the K-03x brochure I found this tidbit:



This implies that the K-03 (non 'x') cannot sync with an external clock when using USB? If true, then the 'x' upgrade would be important, even though I don't care about DSD.

Also from the K-03x brochure:


This makes me think that if you were playing 24/96 material back via USB, then you would need a 10Mhz universal clock signal from the G-02? I am waiting for the 'xl user manuals to be posted online, maybe they will have more detail on using an external clock with USB.

Colekat, Justubes, thanks for your input!

I don't think this upgrade is available yet. There is nothing on the Esoteric USA website under the upgrades section. Does anyone know when this upgrade for K-01 and K-03 is expected to become available?

Thanks,
Ken

[Masterlu]

I have an AA'r getting his K03 upgraded right now to K03x spec. I'll post updates as I have them.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

I have an AA'r getting his K03 upgraded right now to K03x spec. I'll post updates as I have them.

Thanks Ivan! Do you know where it needed to be shipped for the upgrade?

Ken

[Masterlu]

Thanks Ivan! Do you know where it needed to be shipped for the upgrade?

Ken

TAP in CA.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

TAP in CA.

Thanks Ivan. What is TAP?

Ken

[crwilli]

:lurk:

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[Masterlu]

Thanks Ivan. What is TAP?

Ken

TAP is Esoteric's authorized service center.

Tap Electronics Co. (http://www.tapelectronics.com)

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

TAP is Esoteric's authorized service center.

Tap Electronics Co. (http://www.tapelectronics.com)

Thanks for the link, Ivan.

Ken

[sssb6]

I have an AA'r getting his K03 upgraded right now to K03x spec. I'll post updates as I have them.


Hi,

Any upgrade on the K-03x upgrade? I'm interested in persuing this upgrade.

[Masterlu]

Hi,

Any upgrade on the K-03x upgrade? I'm interested in persuing this upgrade.

Even though it was successful, be aware your player will never be a K03X. The back panel is not changed, nor is the model designation. It is doubtful that resale will be enhanced either.

If you become a Subscriber, I will PM you more info.

[audible1]

Hello all!
Just my word regarding the clock
I have a K-03 non X and a rubidium clock generator.
I can certainly say that the rubidium clock on the K-03 makes a quantum leap in performance on redbook and SACD.
It is hard to listen to the non-Rb clocked K-03.
Every aspect of sound quality is much much improved. It sounds far more fluid, rich and "engaging".

[Masterlu]

audible1... Welcome to AA! :wave:

[audible1]

Thanks Masterlu,

Further to my discussion of how much improved the Rb blocked K-03 is better than stock I have recently compared the recording ESOTERIC - HAITINK: BEETHOVEN VIOLIN CONCERTO IN D MAJOR, VIOLIN ROMANCE (HYBRID SACD) against my LP copy which is in near mint condition. I have done the glue technique to clean the LP so it is very quiet for an LP. I have Clearaudio Goldfinger cart VPI classic TT. MC stage is Mac C2500.

I have found that the Rb clocked player is far more depth and definition in the recording of the orchestra. That is quite obvious. The SACD is a hands down winner for the massed orchestra. The SACD is much more dynamic, open and revealing. The LP version tends to blur and smear the orchestra by adding a warm fuzz to everything. The Rb clocking of the K-03 removes the digital edginess that I find with the stock player. The Rb clock adds fluidity to the sound - something I had with my LP but lacked with the stock K-03. The solo violin of the LP and SACD still sounds different - a matter of taste - definitely the SACD is much more revealing open and perhaps a bit brighter, whereas the LP sounds more damped and less extended (some may say warmer).

On other recordings, the Rb clock has made an enormous difference compared with the stock player. Every aspect of sound quality is enhanced by the Rb clock. I have had many people listen to my K-03 with and without clock. Even untrained ears hear the difference quickly. Rb clocking makes the K-03 sound so much more "engaging". Music just becomes so much more emotionally involving.

To me, Esoteric has made excellent SACD players - and the best feature of them is the external word clock input.

[Masterlu]

Thanks Masterlu,

Further to my discussion of how much improved the Rb blocked K-03 is better than stock I have recently compared the recording ESOTERIC - HAITINK: BEETHOVEN VIOLIN CONCERTO IN D MAJOR, VIOLIN ROMANCE (HYBRID SACD) against my LP copy which is in near mint condition. I have done the glue technique to clean the LP so it is very quiet for an LP. I have Clearaudio Goldfinger cart VPI classic TT. MC stage is Mac C2500.

I have found that the Rb clocked player is far more depth and definition in the recording of the orchestra. That is quite obvious. The SACD is a hands down winner for the massed orchestra. The SACD is much more dynamic, open and revealing. The LP version tends to blur and smear the orchestra by adding a warm fuzz to everything. The Rb clocking of the K-03 removes the digital edginess that I find with the stock player. The Rb clock adds fluidity to the sound - something I had with my LP but lacked with the stock K-03. The solo violin of the LP and SACD still sounds different - a matter of taste - definitely the SACD is much more revealing open and perhaps a bit brighter, whereas the LP sounds more damped and less extended (some may say warmer).

On other recordings, the Rb clock has made an enormous difference compared with the stock player. Every aspect of sound quality is enhanced by the Rb clock. I have had many people listen to my K-03 with and without clock. Even untrained ears hear the difference quickly. Rb clocking makes the K-03 sound so much more "engaging". Music just becomes so much more emotionally involving.

To me, Esoteric has made excellent SACD players - and the best feature of them is the external word clock input.

Great post... "Rb clocking makes the K-03 sound so much more "engaging". Music just becomes so much more emotionally involving." :thumbsup:

[Adrian Molina]

Save your money, the clock inside your K03 is superior to the G02.

Sorry, no mood to discuss! I'm not at all agree with your comment! in my systems, external master clock always brought very audible improvements in K-03 and K-01 even an old G-03X and more the new G-02, do many assessments of many customers at home and all unanimously agreed in the air, lack of grain, and much more musicality and much more 3D stereo image is impossible without an external clock !!

[Adrian Molina]

Has anyone tried the g-02 clock with a k-03? I have been wondering if it could improve my already wonderful k-03.

If using the USB input, would you need to change the clock frequency each time you play a file with a different sample rate?

The g-01 would clearly be an improvement, but cannot justify that level of spend.

Sorry, no mood to discuss! I'm not at all agree with your comment! in my systems, external master clock always brought very audible improvements in K-03 and K-01 even an old G-03X and more the new G-02, do many assessments of many customers at home and all unanimously agreed in the air, lack of grain, and much more musicality and much more 3D stereo image is impossible without an external clock !!