20.7 vs ...

[timm]

Hi all.

I dont know how many times I have typed that in google to try to get more input on the 20.7. I know we have some owners out there and others who have heard them.

So I am hoping I can help other addicts as myself that search for info on a speaker that is difficult to demo.

Given the price tag there are some very good competitors in the 15k ballpark. If folks might chime in with the speakers they compared to the 20.7 and impressions of those comparisons (ie 20.7 vs...) -it would be very much appreciated. Thanks Tim.

[cma29]

Hi, Tim. I have the 20.7s and may be able to help.

What kind of music do you listen to the most?

[timm]

Well my collection is quite varied. I am not a metal head. So that is out. So for pop music - mostly acoustic or jazz influenced. I also listen to classical ( but I am no aficionado!! But really appreciate the sound of real instruments). I like both chamber and large scale (if the system presents it right). Oh- also a big Dave Matthews fan. Haha. So as you can see I am a bit all over the map - but dmb has big jazz roots. :)

I have heard the 20.1 3.6 and 3.7 plus a slew of Martin Logan product.

So, I have been looking for comparisons of speakers in the same price range and to get others to give the diffs as they heard them.

[CGabriel]

Hi all. I dont know how many times I have typed that in google to try to get more input on the 20.7. I know we have some owners out there and others who have heard them. So I am hoping I can help other addicts as myself that search for info on a speaker that is difficult to demo. Given the price tag there are some very good competitors in the 15k ballpark. If folks might chime in with the speakers they compared to the 20.7 and impressions of those comparisons (ie 20.7 vs...) -it would be very much appreciated. Thanks Tim.

Today, it is difficult to find a bad speaker. There are many great speakers. There are a few that are also incredible values. All of the Magneplanars must be at the top of that list. They are not perfect - no speaker is. But if you have the room and the amplifier to drive them, the 20.7s are difficult to beat at twice their cost. They are also the only Maggie model that I didn't feel could benefit from a sub-woofer. Good thing since mating a sub to it is not an easy task. There are some speakers that may have some performance aspects that may be better. And there is one speaker that I prefer overall but It is more expensive and quite different than the Maggie and not superior in all respects.

Speaker list:
KEF Blade, KEF 50, Focal Diablo, Ayon Falcon, Quad 57, Quad 2905, Martin Logan Sequel, Wilson WITT, Wilson Maxx II, Wilson Sasha, Devore 0/96, Wave 40, Mag 1.7 and others if we go back further in time.

[cma29]

Tim,
Thanks for details on your musical preferences.

In my opinion the 20.7s are speakers designed for listening to acoustic music recorded in a real space such as orchestral, chamber, choral, instrumental, small jazz or even big band. The design principle behind the 20.7s of using a very thin and light weight Mylar film over a large surface panel area is ideally suited to launch a realistically large sound wave and therefore better able to take the listener to where an acoustic recording was made. I notice this when I hear a live recording made at Carnegie Hall versus one made at smaller venues used by the likes of Jordi Savall.

The 20.7s can play pop music and some rock, but playing artificially-enhanced dynamic music is not their forte. Also, most of this music is poorly recorded so it will not sound good on the 20.7s because they are revealing of what's being fed to them.

Based on the type of music you listen to, Martin Logan may be a better choice for you - combining an electrostatic panel with a cone woofer. Can you listen to M-L near where you live? The Thiel 3.7s may be another good choice around the same price as the 20.7s.

During my purchase decision I was coming from the 3.7s so I knew I wanted to stick with dipoles and did not not consider other designs. Since 95% of the music I listen to is orchestral classical, the 20.7s are the speakers for me and they fit perfectly in my basement man cave. I'm very happy with them and, by the way, when bass drum is present and well-recorded the 20.7s reproduce it with authority even shaking the room, so, yes, they can boogie.

[cma29]

Today, it is difficult to find a bad speaker. There are many great speakers. There are a few that are also incredible values. All of the Magneplanars must be at the top of that list. They are not perfect - no speaker is. But if you have the room and the amplifier to drive them, the 20.7s are difficult to beat at twice their cost. They are also the only Maggie model that I didn't feel could benefit from a sub-woofer. Good thing since mating a sub to it is not an easy task. There are some speakers that may have some performance aspects that may be better. And there is one speaker that I prefer overall but It is more expensive and quite different than the Maggie and not superior in all respects.

Speaker list:
KEF Blade, KEF 50, Focal Diablo, Ayon Falcon, Quad 57, Quad 2905, Martin Logan Sequel, Wilson WITT, Wilson Maxx II, Wilson Sasha, Devore 0/96, Wave 40, Mag 1.7 and others if we go back further in time.

Thanks for your thoughts on the 20.7s, Caelin.

I'm sure you use many great systems to tune your products and it is nice to hear that the 20.7s are part of the select few that are being used at Shunyata for such critical decisions.

[timm]

Hi Carlos. Thanks for your reply. Go figure. I own ml Odysseys which were purchased about 10 years ago?? I have heard tympani on the 20.1 and found it amazing. After listening to the 20s about 8 years ago - I havent forgotten them!! Also, I know what you mean about junk in = junk out. I don't listen to synthesized music per se. Re: bass reproduction - I recently compared the 3.7 to the ml montis. I liked the 3.7 better because of the textures it presents in the music and what I consider a more natural or real presentation. I preferred the planar bass - which quite honestly caught me by surprise.

So you went from the 3.7? Did u check out any other models on the way to the 20 out of curiosity's sake? That is sort of what I was going for.

I have a Cary slp98p and a sunfire signature amp (425/850 8 ohm/4 ohm). Any opinions on that w a 20.7 would be appreciated as well. Thanks Tim.

[cma29]

Hi, Tim.

Yes, the 20.7 reproduce instrumental timbers really well including tympani (and especially brass).

Based on what you are saying, the 20.7s may be the speakers for you. I'm not familiar with the Sunfire amp, but based on the power doubling into 4 ohms they should be good with 20.7s. That's the key. The 20.7s need a beefy power supply that can deliver current. My amps are only rated at 100 W into 8 ohms (200 W into 4 ohms) and they make the 20.7s sing and get plenty loud.

I had the 3.7s for about 8 months so I knew I wanted the 20.7s and my dealer offered me 100% trade-in credit. I did not investigate other speakers.

By the way, there is an updated 3.7 model available, the 3.7i which was reviewed in the Nov 2014 issue of The Absolute Sound. Check out the other thread here on that. That speaker, along with some Maggie bass panels, may be the ticket for you. Where do you live?

[timm]

Hi Carlos. I am in Ann Arbor michigan. There is a Maggie dealer fairly close - but of course no 20.7. I need to go harass him about the 'I' version. I am planning my man cave as I have an unfinished basement that I could make 16-18 ft wide and 25-30 ft long.

[cma29]

Hi Carlos. I am in Ann Arbor michigan. There is a Maggie dealer fairly close - but of course no 20.7. I need to go harass him about the 'I' version. I am planning my man cave as I have an unfinished basement that I could make 16-18 ft wide and 25-30 ft long.

The room looks to be a perfect place for your man cave.

Audio Consultants in Evanston IL (near Chicago) has a pair of 20.7s for auditioning. That's where I got mine and had them shipped to Missouri to save the sales tax.

[mgard]

Hi Carlos. I am in Ann Arbor michigan. There is a Maggie dealer fairly close - but of course no 20.7. I need to go harass him about the 'I' version. I am planning my man cave as I have an unfinished basement that I could make 16-18 ft wide and 25-30 ft long.

You probably already know that Harry in Royal Oak has the 3.7i's on display.

~Mike

[magnut]

As they say, the world can be a small place. I live in the Chicagoland area and have done business with Audio Consultants for many years. I've owned Magnepans for about 15 or 16 years now. The last couple years I've had the 20.7's. AC didn't have them to audition when they first came out so I made a trip to Magnepan and did the company tour with Wendell Diller and heard them there. My only comparison to other speakers would come from what I've heard at the Axpona shows and a few at the dealer. To me, the difference is the "big" sound. The openness. The soundstage is huge. This is what a panel speaker gives you. When my wife and I would walk into a room at a show you could tell before you even got all the way in what type of speaker was playing. Magnepan, Kingsound, Martin Logan, Sound Labs, Sanders etc. All have that open and airy sound. Box speakers sound like boxes. After an audition when asked what we thought my wife would say, "Sounds like the music is in a box." I had to start telling her to be careful of what she says. I didn't want to make enemies. Are there fabulous sounding box style speakers? Of course. But, to my ears, getting to that fabulous sounding box speaker means a trip up the golden road. Magnepans are always compared to speakers costing double and triple their price. The 1.7 and 3.7 have been critically acclaimed as incomparable at their price point.
My wife and I attended a seminar by REL subwoofers at AC awhile back. There were two G1's paired to the $70,000 or so Wilson Maxxes. The electronics were in the $70 to $80,000 range. I'm not even gonna mention the ridiculous cable costs. Was the sound amazing? Yes it was. Was it better then my 20.7's and my two REL G2's? In some ways yes and some no. As loud and as powerful as it was it still didn't give that Phil Spector "wall of sound" sound. My wife said it sounded like a box.:D

So what can you compare the 20.7 to in it's price range? Nothing. It has a sound all it's own. Now, to your ear, can you "like" a different speaker in this price range more? Absolutely. You could like a speaker that costs less. The new 3.7i is amazing at $6000. You won't know till you listen.

[klao]

For my ears, Avalon & Nola (ref. line) have good timbre. Then again, they're quite pricey. : )

My music preference ranges from classical (both chamber & orchestral) to some jazz and pop/rock.

I came from 1.6 to 3.6, then ordered the 20.7 without having seen nor audition a pair.

[CGabriel]

So what can you compare the 20.7 to in it's price range? Nothing. It has a sound all it's own. Now, to your ear, can you "like" a different speaker in this price range more? Absolutely. You could like a speaker that costs less. The new 3.7i is amazing at $6000. You won't know till you listen.

+1
Well said.

[cma29]

As they say, the world can be a small place. I live in the Chicagoland area and have done business with Audio Consultants for many years. I've owned Magnepans for about 15 or 16 years now. The last couple years I've had the 20.7's. AC didn't have them to audition when they first came out so I made a trip to Magnepan and did the company tour with Wendell Diller and heard them there. My only comparison to other speakers would come from what I've heard at the Axpona shows and a few at the dealer. To me, the difference is the "big" sound. The openness. The soundstage is huge. This is what a panel speaker gives you. When my wife and I would walk into a room at a show you could tell before you even got all the way in what type of speaker was playing. Magnepan, Kingsound, Martin Logan, Sound Labs, Sanders etc. All have that open and airy sound. Box speakers sound like boxes. After an audition when asked what we thought my wife would say, "Sounds like the music is in a box." I had to start telling her to be careful of what she says. I didn't want to make enemies. Are there fabulous sounding box style speakers? Of course. But, to my ears, getting to that fabulous sounding box speaker means a trip up the golden road. Magnepans are always compared to speakers costing double and triple their price. The 1.7 and 3.7 have been critically acclaimed as incomparable at their price point.
My wife and I attended a seminar by REL subwoofers at AC awhile back. There were two G1's paired to the $70,000 or so Wilson Maxxes. The electronics were in the $70 to $80,000 range. I'm not even gonna mention the ridiculous cable costs. Was the sound amazing? Yes it was. Was it better then my 20.7's and my two REL G2's? In some ways yes and some no. As loud and as powerful as it was it still didn't give that Phil Spector "wall of sound" sound. My wife said it sounded like a box.:D

So what can you compare the 20.7 to in it's price range? Nothing. It has a sound all it's own. Now, to your ear, can you "like" a different speaker in this price range more? Absolutely. You could like a speaker that costs less. The new 3.7i is amazing at $6000. You won't know till you listen.

I've been in that room with the Boulder electronics, dCS stack and the Transparent cabling. :yes:

Audio Consultants should move the 20.7s into that room and put them by the Wilsons.

[russell]

...shipped to Missouri to save the sales tax.

Where do you live in Missouri?

[cma29]

Where do you live in Missouri?

Columbia, MO. Are you in Missouri also?

[timm]

You probably already know that Harry in Royal Oak has the 3.7i's on display.

~Mike

Hi mike. Didn't know he had the improved version. I have listened to the 3.7 there and the 20's years ago.

Where do you live? I want to hear the 20.7 when you get them!! :)
Tim.

[mgard]

Hi mike. Didn't know he had the improved version. I have listened to the 3.7 there and the 20's years ago.

Where do you live? I want to hear the 20.7 when you get them!! :)
Tim.

Tim,
I live a little north of Jackson. When I bought my first Maggie's, the 1.7's Harry still had the 20.1's. He also had a real nice pair of Quad 2905's. I am going to give Magnepan a call tomorrow to see what their back log is for upgrading to the 3.7i. Adding the Mye stands and the Stillpoint Ultra SS stabilizers should really do it up right. :yes: if you haven't learned by now Audio Aficionado is not a good place to hang out if you want to save your money. :D

~Mike

[timm]

Tim,
I live a little north of Jackson. When I bought my first Maggie's, the 1.7's Harry still had the 20.1's. He also had a real nice pair of Quad 2905's. I am going to give Magnepan a call tomorrow to see what their back log is for upgrading to the 3.7i. Adding the Mye stands and the Stillpoint Ultra SS stabilizers should really do it up right. :yes: if you haven't learned by now Audio Aficionado is not a good place to hang out if you want to save your money. :D

~Mike

What??? I thought this was a job site? I'm looking for a 14500 dollar raise!! :)

[russell]

Columbia, MO. Are you in Missouri also?

Yes - St. Louis. I purchased my 20.7's back in 2012 from Illinois and then had them shipped here.

I currently use 3 ohm mills resistors on the mids and tweeters.

[cma29]

Yes - St. Louis. I purchased my 20.7's back in 2012 from Illinois and then had them shipped here.

I currently use 3 ohm mills resistors on the mids and tweeters.

Nice. I do not use any attenuation on mine.

What amplifier do you use to drive your 20.7s?

[CGabriel]

Nice. I do not use any attenuation on mine. What amplifier do you use to drive your 20.7s?

No attenuators either. But you should replace the U shaped jumpers with a good jumper wire.

[russell]

I use two Wyred SX-1000 monos. Great amps - smooth, powerful, etc.

I find padding down the mids/tweeter by 6db increases the bass weight and provides a balanced sound.

[cma29]

No attenuators either. But you should replace the U shaped jumpers with a good jumper wire.

Caelin - what do you recommend for good jumper wire?

[CGabriel]

Caelin - what do you recommend for good jumper wire?

Instead of a jumper I just use our 9 gauge VTX wire which fits snugly into the terminals without any banana connectors. I can post a photo if you like to see it.



36612

[cma29]

^^

Thanks for showing us your tweak, Caelin. I might try something similar, but honestly I'm very happy with the sound now (but yes, I'm sure it can get better)

I noticed the tensioner on the after-market stand. Is that a modified Mye stand?

[CGabriel]

^^ Thanks for showing us your tweak, Caelin. I might try something similar, but honestly I'm very happy with the sound now (but yes, I'm sure it can get better) I noticed the tensioner on the after-market stand. Is that a modified Mye stand?

It is a Sound Anchor base. The gizmo allows you to adjust the angle of the speaker front to back. I had a Mye stand for the 1.7s. Didn't like the look of the speaker. The Sound Anchor is well made, solid and looks good. I am using StillPoints SS under the stand.

[cma29]

It is a Sound Anchor base. The gizmo allows you to adjust the angle of the speaker front to back. I had a Mye stand for the 1.7s. Didn't like the look of the speaker. The Sound Anchor is well made, solid and looks good. I am using StillPoints SS under the stand.

Thanks for the details, Caelin. My Mye Stands are the stealth variation so they are not visible at all from the listening chair - the whole structure is behind the panel, but it does need a counterweight for stability.

[CGabriel]

..but it does need a counterweight for stability.

Hm, that's an improvement from the Mye that I had for the 1.7s. They messed up the beautiful aesthetic of the speaker.

The Sound Anchor is rock solid, very stable - not a chance of tipping over even with the Stillpoints installed. With the angle adjustment you can control the vertical launch of the speaker versus seating position. It makes a surprising difference.

http://www.audioaficionado.org/members/cgabriel-albums-audio-system-picture3530-img-0018.jpg

[wildcat82]

Hi all. I dont know how many times I have typed that in google to try to get more input on the 20.7. I know we have some owners out there and others who have heard them. So I am hoping I can help other addicts as myself that search for info on a speaker that is difficult to demo. Given the price tag there are some very good competitors in the 15k ballpark. If folks might chime in with the speakers they compared to the 20.7 and impressions of those comparisons (ie 20.7 vs...) -it would be very much appreciated. Thanks Tim.


I am a 20.7 owner and have been so for about 6 months. When I got them I had a MC452 which had been purchased with my 3.7s. The 20.7s were good but not
great so I tried a pair of MC601s, not much of a difference compared to the MC452. The 20.7s really came alive when I connected the Sanders Magtech, the difference
was unbeliveable! The Magtech is truely one of the best amps around regardless of price!

Now for other speakers that might compare (in sound) to the 20.7s, the only speak that I have heard that comes close and possibly exceeds the 20.7s is
Roger Sanders Model 10d. I heard these speakers at RMAF and was absolutly amazed, the 20.7s come close but the 10d ESLs are probably the best sound
for the money anywhere. The reason I brought up the Magtech is that you get 1 Magtech with the 10d's and 2 stereo amps are requied to run them, the ideal
setup is 2 Magtechs which equals music heaven!

brett

[ths61]

...
http://www.audioaficionado.org/members/cgabriel-albums-audio-system-picture3530-img-0018.jpg

Cool diffusers ! ! !

[timm]

Re the Sanders 10d. I have heard good things about these as well. Biggest drawback I have heard is the head in vise issue. Also - anyone I have seen post about the magtech loves it including this forum and the Martin Logan owners forum. Given he has two amps and everyone swears by the magtech - what is the point of his esl amp?

[harri009]

To each their own of course. I owned sanders 10c's with the magtech's and they had the same metallic sound that all Electrostats seem to have. The bass was a bit bloated in my living room with them and it was definitely a head vise speaker. In fact I never understood the term headvise being used to describe speakers until I owned these. I did a direct comparison on a set of magnepan 3.7's with the magtech and a pair of Bryston 7bsst2's and at the time I preferred the Brystons but it was a short comparison. Needless to say I sold them and now own 3.7's. They were very detailed but I just couldn't handle the headvise or the metallic sounding highs. The down fall of living somewhere that has no HiFi shops is you pretty much buy what you want to hear and sell after.

[wildcat82]

Re the Sanders 10d. I have heard good things about these as well. Biggest drawback I have heard is the head in vise issue. Also - anyone I have seen post about the magtech loves it including this forum and the Martin Logan owners forum. Given he has two amps and everyone swears by the magtech - what is the point of his esl amp?

The ESL amp is the older of the two, the Magtech was built with the ESL as the foundation then adding a fully regulated power power supply that is 100% efficient. The regulator makes it possible to obtain a 50% increase in power over the same amplifier operated unregulated. In its stereo form, the Magtech will deliver 500 watts/channel into an 8 ohm load and 900 watts/channel into a 4 ohm load.

Beyond the tech stuff the Magtech is a great match for maggie's, it brought my 20.7s to life & I would not trade the amp for anything out there, regardless of cost.

[ths61]

FWIW, if you are a member of the Planar Speaker Asylum or Martin Logan Owner's group, you can get a $500 discount from Roger on major purchases (e.g. MagTech amp). He may extend the discount to AA members if he is contacted about it.