3.7 vs. 3.7i

[Jbauza]

I am wondering if anyone has upgraded their 3.7 to 3.7i and what improvement they noticed. Wondering wether the $500 cost plus shipping is worthy?

[mgard]

Jbauza,

I thought for sure someone would have answered your post by now. Maybe we should ask another question. Has anyone heard the new 3.7i's? If I wasn't so paranoid about getting mine smashed up in shipping I would try the upgraded.

~Mike

[harri009]

If yours are the aluminum frame I would be extra concerned about shipping. I had a buddy get his smashed up while being shipped to him. We were able to look a little closer at the torn open speakers and the aluminum frame is basically just a thin wrap of aluminum around an mdf board. The wooden frame option is actually hardwood which the screws go into rather than mdf. While if shipped just in Magnepans cardboard box I would assume that any of their speakers would be destroyed though. Buying and 8ft pallet is really the only option.

[Jbauza]

I agree that one of my concerns is the shipping. I have seen quotes from $260, but I'm also concerned if the investment of about $800- $1,000 is worthy. 3 weeks ago I went to my dealer to upgrade to the ARC Ref 5S and he mentioned that he had 3 pairs of the 3.7 that he had not sold and I'm wondering why he had not upgraded them. Could it be that with proper break in is not needed?

[audio bill]

In case you haven't seen this review (http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-magnepan-37i-loudspeaker/), it's the only source I've found that makes some comparisons of the 3.7 to the 3.7i. Magnepan is still being very secretive about what the upgrade consists of, but I've heard that it is an audible improvement. Hope this helps!

[mgard]

audio bill,

that was a good article which I had read. I took another scan through it. I was waiting for his full review to come out. Maybe I need a subscription to hi fi+. I already subscribe to Absolute Sound and Stereophile. What Magnepan should do to get more buy in on this upgrade is have 10 special Kevlar or some other indestructible container/cases made that are all padded inside. Give free shipping to and from the plant for the first 20 or so upgrade requests. Once everybody hears how great the upgrade is, Magnepan will be flooded with orders. :D

~Mike

[Ritmo]

You can always have the shipper build a crate to protect the Magnepan OEM boxes. Yes, it will be another several hundred dollars but your speakers will be protected. :ok:

[Jbauza]

I Guess that probably the next step will be to talk to my dealer to do a side by side comparison since he still has some 3.7 and really determine if the upgrade is worth it?

[audio bill]

I know that there has been quite a bit of speculation as to what Magnepan changed with their recent introduction of the revised Magneplanar 3.7i. The company has been quite secretive about exactly what the modification consists of, just claiming that it makes an audible improvement. I recently came across this press release (http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/magneplanar-mg-3-7i-loudspeaker-arrives-in-the-uk/) regarding the 3.7i from the UK which I thought could clear up some of the confusion. You can see in the fourth paragraph that they mention a newly re-engineered time and phase aligned crossover. This type of change would be consistent with the requirement to ship the speakers back to the factory to have the upgrade installed and the cost of $500. Hope that you find this information helpful.

[Poisonm]

For those living overseas, it would be good to actually know the specifics and how much a improvement it actually makes before committing and going through the trouble of shipping them back.

[mgard]

I hope I don't get in trouble for this post. I bought a subscription to Hi-Fi+ just so I could read Chris Martens full review of the new 3.7i upgrade. These are just some of his comments and not the contents of his full article. Just some of the differences he listed between the 3.7 and 3.7i. I must admit I have the itch to upgrade....

Magnepan 3.7i planar
magnetic/ribbon loudspeaker
by Chris Martens


As I listened carefully to the 3.7i, my assessment was that
it not only preserved but actually expanded upon the 3.7’s
overall coherency. If you heard the original 3.7 in isolation you
would rightly think it to be a very fine loudspeaker, but if you
then switched to the 3.7i you would soon realize that, from
the heart of the midrange and on up into the upper midrange,
the new speaker sounds noticeably smoother and more at
ease with itself. Moreover, levels of internal ‘self-noise’ seem
to be reduced in the 3.7i, so that backgrounds become
quieter, making it easier for low-level details to be revealed.
To hear these qualities in action, listen to the track ‘Big
Brother’ from Jen Chapin’s reVisions [Chesky SACD], which is
a brilliant jazz trio’s update on a selection of classic songs from
Stevie Wonder. Listen, for example, to the feisty, provocative
edge in Chapin’s voice as she sings a line accusing politicians
of only visiting their constituents “…around election time.” The
3.7i’s really bring Chapin’s voice, with its many tonal colors,
emotional moods, and engaging inflections, vividly to life.
Note, too, the fascinating passage near the end of the song
where saxophonist Chris Cheek takes a walk from the front
left side of the stage to the rear as he continues to play. As
Cheek turns and moves, the Magnepans capture small spatial
details that help you know where Cheek is standing and
which way he is facing as he moves.
The 3.7i also differs from the original 3.7 by offering
noticeably more expressive and expansive dynamics. The 3.7i,
like most Magnepan speakers, is relatively power hungry and
low in rated sensitivity, but give the speaker the power it needs
and it will respond with impressive energy and grace—areas
where the 3.7i clearly outperforms the original 3.7. When pushed
hard by challenging musical material the earlier speaker could
eventually start to exhibit faint traces of strain in the form of a
subtle, hard-edged or even ragged-sounding quality. In contrast,
when you lean hard on the 3.7i it simply plays more loudly, always
maintaining a smooth-tempered sonic disposition.
To appreciate what I mean, listen to John Adler’s
Confronting Inertia [Origin Classical], where Adler explores
both the pensive and more fiercely forceful voices of his
trumpet. On the more delicate end of the dynamic spectrum
the 3.7i captures the subtleties of Adler’s horn with admirable
finesse, but as Adler probes the other end of the dynamic
envelope the 3.7i answers with its own unflustered yet
decidedly muscular response—delivering acoustic power
tempered with an easy-going kind of grace. I won’t tell you
the 3.7i can compete with horn-type speakers in terms of
dynamic clout because that would be ridiculous, but I will tell
you that it produces a much bigger, more forceful, and yet
more relaxed presentation than the 3.7 did.
Good though the 3.7 was and is, there is something
audibly and inarguably more ‘right’ about the new 3.7i.
Interestingly, from a musical perspective, the new design at
once sounds more revealing of low-level textures and details,
yet also smoother and less prone to edginess (a package of
virtues that don’t often travel together in most speakers).

[cma29]

I know that there has been quite a bit of speculation as to what Magnepan changed with their recent introduction of the revised Magneplanar 3.7i. The company has been quite secretive about exactly what the modification consists of, just claiming that it makes an audible improvement. I recently came across this press release (http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/magneplanar-mg-3-7i-loudspeaker-arrives-in-the-uk/) regarding the 3.7i from the UK which I thought could clear up some of the confusion. You can see in the fourth paragraph that they mention a newly re-engineered time and phase aligned crossover. This type of change would be consistent with the requirement to ship the speakers back to the factory to have the upgrade installed and the cost of $500. Hope that you find this information helpful.

Thanks for this useful update.

[audio bill]

The complete 3.7i review from Hi-Fi Plus referred to by mgard above is now available here (http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/magnepan-37i-planar-magneticribbon-and-dwm-woofer-loudspeaker-system/) for your reference. While details of what the upgrade actually incorporates are still not provided, the review describes very well the improvements offered by the upgraded model.

[magnut]

I heard the 3.7i just last week at my dealer. I owned the 3.7 before I moved to the 20.7 a couple years ago. Do I have to list all of the usual hyperbole we all use when describing a new and improved product or can I just say that everything the reviewer said was true? Very simply it's a better sounding and better performing speaker. There was absolutely no discussion. Is it as good as the 20.7 now? In a word, no. To my ears though, it took a nice step closer. I understand the concern about the shipping cost and possible damage. If it were me I'd just trade the 3.7 or sell it outright and buy the 3.7i new. Let the dealer worry about the shipping. Actually, I think the shipping worries are a little overblown. I've had 1.6s, 3.5s, 3.6s, 3.7s, 20.7s and the CCR center all shipped and never had so much as a blemish. Magnepan has been doing this for a long time. If you get them there properly packaged I don't think there's too much to worry about. After hearing what this change has done for the 3.7 I'm wondering now if the same kind of upgrade can be done to the 20.7? I wouldn't think twice to make the change.

[cma29]

I heard the 3.7i just last week at my dealer. I owned the 3.7 before I moved to the 20.7 a couple years ago. Do I have to list all of the usual hyperbole we all use when describing a new and improved product or can I just say that everything the reviewer said was true? Very simply it's a better sounding and better performing speaker. There was absolutely no discussion. Is it as good as the 20.7 now? In a word, no. To my ears though, it took a nice step closer. I understand the concern about the shipping cost and possible damage. If it were me I'd just trade the 3.7 or sell it outright and buy the 3.7i new. Let the dealer worry about the shipping. Actually, I think the shipping worries are a little overblown. I've had 1.6s, 3.5s, 3.6s, 3.7s, 20.7s and the CCR center all shipped and never had so much as a blemish. Magnepan has been doing this for a long time. If you get them there properly packaged I don't think there's too much to worry about. After hearing what this change has done for the 3.7 I'm wondering now if the same kind of upgrade can be done to the 20.7? I wouldn't think twice to make the change.

Thanks for the post, magnut. It's good to see Magnepan continuously put out excellent products and even doing a few tweaks to an already well-regarded product to make it even better. If they offer a 20.7i upgrade, I would definitely look into that as well.

[mgard]

I was trying to decide if I should go for the Mye stands for my 3.7s first or the upgrade. Not sure which would have a bigger impact on the sound. I may wait till next year as the weather is starting to get colder.

~Mike

[cma29]

I was trying to decide if I should go for the Mye stands for my 3.7s first or the upgrade. Not sure which would have a bigger impact on the sound. I may wait till next year as the weather is starting to get colder.

~Mike

Mike - I got the Mye Stands for my 20.7s and they certainly brace the speaker well and make the whole structure very rigid. I'm happy with them.

However, based on the review posted, I think the "i" upgrade might be the way to go - reviewer did not have the Mye stands and still described significant benefits going from 3.7s to 3.7is.

[audiot servant]

Hi Mike,

I had the opportunity to compare the 3.7 and 3.7i for an arvo at a mate's place in a system much like my own so was easy to spot the differences. He also has Mye stands so we could compare those and the Sound Anchors.

The changes between the original 3.7 and upgraded panels and the change with adding stands was essentially different in nature.

The change from 3.7 to 3.7i we agreed was primarily a balance shift with additional fullness in the mid bass to lower mids which made for a slightly richer sound overall and moved the weight a bit more towards the overall 20.7 balance.

The addition of stands for the 3.7 didn't so much shift the tonal balance in the mid bass to mid range but rather made resolution/focus/clarity/agility gains overall and also some additional extension down lower. The stands also make possible the use of isolation footers which can take you further down the resolution and speed route.

Both benefits seem valuable so possibly it comes down to whether you feel like you need a richer presentation (3.7i) or a faster more resolved one (stands and mechanical isolation) while keeping the balance fairly largely similar with more extension down lower tho if your running subs this might be less an issue.

Graham

[cma29]

Mike - I got the Mye Stands for my 20.7s and they certainly brace the speaker well and make the whole structure very rigid. I'm happy with them.

However, based on the review posted, I think the "i" upgrade might be the way to go - reviewer did not have the Mye stands and still described significant benefits going from 3.7s to 3.7is.

Mike - forget I said and go with Graham's ^ ^ ^ much better recommendation :thumbsup:

[mgard]

Thank you magnut, Graham and Carlos for your observations. It is good to hear positive feed back form others on the 3.7i upgrade. I would like more warmth in the mid to upper range. Graham both upgrades sound very benifical. I will be keeping these speakers for a number of years so I think it would be good to unleash all their capabilities. I have recently moved all my audio equipment to a different room. I have a number of options for moving things around. Right now I am coming off the short wall. The speakers should be farther apart.

~Mike

[timm]

Hi Mike,

I had the opportunity to compare the 3.7 and 3.7i for an arvo at a mate's place in a system much like my own so was easy to spot the differences. He also has Mye stands so we could compare those and the Sound Anchors.

The changes between the original 3.7 and upgraded panels and the change with adding stands was essentially different in nature.

The change from 3.7 to 3.7i we agreed was primarily a balance shift with additional fullness in the mid bass to lower mids which made for a slightly richer sound overall and moved the weight a bit more towards the overall 20.7 balance.

The addition of stands for the 3.7 didn't so much shift the tonal balance in the mid bass to mid range but rather made resolution/focus/clarity/agility gains overall and also some additional extension down lower. The stands also make possible the use of isolation footers which can take you further down the resolution and speed route.

Both benefits seem valuable so possibly it comes down to whether you feel like you need a richer presentation (3.7i) or a faster more resolved one (stands and mechanical isolation) while keeping the balance fairly largely similar with more extension down lower tho if your running subs this might be less an issue.

Graham

Hi graham- btw have read your 20.7 posts about 100 times by now I think :) . You noted both Mye and sound anchors. Do you have any opinion on the differences between the two if any? Thanks Tim.

[audio bill]

Thank you magnut, Graham and Carlos for your observations. It is good to hear positive feed back form others on the 3.7i upgrade. I would like more warmth in the mid to upper range. Graham both upgrades sound very benifical. I will be keeping these speakers for a number of years so I think it would be good to unleash all their capabilities. I have recently moved all my audio equipment to a different room. I have a number of options for moving things around. Right now I am coming off the short wall. The speakers should be farther apart.

~Mike
Mike, given your setup as pictured it appears that it might be better with the tweeters on the outside instead of inside. In the manual it states that in situations with the speakers closer together having the tweeters outside helps present a wider soundstage. Have you tried reversing the speakers?

[audiot servant]

Hi graham- btw have read your 20.7 posts about 100 times by now I think :) . You noted both Mye and sound anchors. Do you have any opinion on the differences between the two if any? Thanks Tim.

Tim,

The Mye stands are great and have a slight edge on the Sound Anchors overall probably because of the bracing up the back ultimately making them more rigid. There wasn't much in it but the price differential in Australia is huge due to the extra cost of shipping the Mye. In the big picture I found that getting Stillpoints under the stands to make a greater overall contribution than just the stands alone and definitely worth the extra price of admission.

As an aside it doesn't seem to matter how much improvement you throw in the rest of the gear around them the Maggies just never end up being the weak link in the system. I've also lately trialled running the 20.7s with Wilson Benesch Torus infra sub and have a new found respect for what these panels can ultimately do.

@Mike - that setup looks magic, those subs look like they really know what they are doing... the Maggie's would deserve some stands in that setup.

Cheers
Graham

[mgard]

Mike, given your setup as pictured it appears that it might be better with the tweeters on the outside instead of inside. In the manual it states that in situations with the speakers closer together having the tweeters outside helps present a wider soundstage. Have you tried reversing the speakers?

audio bill,
No I have not tried the tweeters on the outside. I will give that a test run and see how it goes. I think I'll go with Graham's advise and spring for some Mye stands and take a look at Stillpoints too. Not sure what model of Stillpoints would be appropriate. I am thinking about building some light weight boxes to ship my Maggie's back to the factory for the 3.7i upgrade. So probably next spring before that happens.

Thanks again for your input,

~Mike

[cma29]

Guys - I just received the Nov 2014 issue of The Absolute Sound (issue 247) and it includes a full review of the 3.7i by Jacob Heilbrunn. The bottom line is that he loved the speakers and calls them "spooky real" with "high-resolution" and "astounding coherence." Check it out.

[audio bill]

Carlos - thanks for the heads up on this new review! I subscribe to the online version of TAS and haven't yet been notified about this new issue. After seeing your post I logged into their system and was just able to download issue 247. Looking forward to reading the new review. :thumbsup:

[magnut]

I was also a Mye stand user. I bought them for my 3.6s and then used them on my 3.7s. They most definitely made a difference. There was noticeable clarity, a bit more forward midrange and a better bass response. Now that I have 20.7s they kinda just sit and collect dust. I've considered getting stands for the 20s but my wife likes the new oval stand that they come with and they're easy to slide around on the carpet if need be. With the Mye stands they will get much heavier and be more difficult to move.

[mgard]

I was also a Mye stand user. I bought them for my 3.6s and then used them on my 3.7s. They most definitely made a difference. There was noticeable clarity, a bit more forward midrange and a better bass response. Now that I have 20.7s they kinda just sit and collect dust. I've considered getting stands for the 20s but my wife likes the new oval stand that they come with and they're easy to slide around on the carpet if need be. With the Mye stands they will get much heavier and be more difficult to move.

magnut,

To bad you didn't live in Michigan I would snap those up. :yes:

~Mike

[drchaos]

Hi Mike,


The change from 3.7 to 3.7i we agreed was primarily a balance shift with additional fullness in the mid bass to lower mids which made for a slightly richer sound overall and moved the weight a bit more towards the overall 20.7 balance.


This is consistent with something I saw about the 3.7i change (I can't find the source, sorry), that it involved changing the tensioning in the bass/mid panel during manufacturing.

The tensioning is pretty important and a big Magnepan trade secret---the tension isn't even uniform around the sides, presumably tighter at top and looser near the bottom. Remember the Apogee trapezoid? Why a trapezoid? For the same reason--- a non-uniform geometry makes less resonance degeneracy (multiple geometrical resonances piling up on the same frequency) and so a broader, lower Q, resonance behavior.

The tensioning (and the resonance dots) are part of the 'black arts'.

Perhaps the bass on 3.7 non-i was a bit overdamped vs the ideal and the 3.7i change fixes this. It corresponds to the description of something that was adapted into the manufacturing process at low cost, unlike the major model upgrades.

The description of the phase-coherent crossover I think refers to changes from 3.7 over 3.6.

[Masterlu]

drchaos... Welcome to AA! :wave:

[cma29]

This is consistent with something I saw about the 3.7i change (I can't find the source, sorry), that it involved changing the tensioning in the bass/mid panel during manufacturing.

The tensioning is pretty important and a big Magnepan trade secret---the tension isn't even uniform around the sides, presumably tighter at top and looser near the bottom. Remember the Apogee trapezoid? Why a trapezoid? For the same reason--- a non-uniform geometry makes less resonance degeneracy (multiple geometrical resonances piling up on the same frequency) and so a broader, lower Q, resonance behavior.

The tensioning (and the resonance dots) are part of the 'black arts'.

Perhaps the bass on 3.7 non-i was a bit overdamped vs the ideal and the 3.7i change fixes this. It corresponds to the description of something that was adapted into the manufacturing process at low cost, unlike the major model upgrades.

The description of the phase-coherent crossover I think refers to changes from 3.7 over 3.6.

:goodpost:

drchaos - welcome and please keep posting!

[magnut]

Apologies for breaking the rules. Should have known better.

[Sceptic]

This is consistent with something I saw about the 3.7i change (I can't find the source, sorry), that it involved changing the tensioning in the bass/mid panel during manufacturing.

The tensioning is pretty important and a big Magnepan trade secret---the tension isn't even uniform around the sides, presumably tighter at top and looser near the bottom. Remember the Apogee trapezoid? Why a trapezoid? For the same reason--- a non-uniform geometry makes less resonance degeneracy (multiple geometrical resonances piling up on the same frequency) and so a broader, lower Q, resonance behavior.

The tensioning (and the resonance dots) are part of the 'black arts'.

Perhaps the bass on 3.7 non-i was a bit overdamped vs the ideal and the 3.7i change fixes this. It corresponds to the description of something that was adapted into the manufacturing process at low cost, unlike the major model upgrades.

The description of the phase-coherent crossover I think refers to changes from 3.7 over 3.6.

From a person who has made the i-upgrade "Shelia said no burn in for the upgrade.....and they did not touch the Mylar, but my socks and side rails were off..."

Could also be the damping tape behind the midrange.
First Listen: Magnepan 3.7i loudspeaker | Hi-Fi+ (http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-magnepan-37i-loudspeaker/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&page=4&utm_source=email-232)

[Sceptic]

Hi Mike,

I had the opportunity to compare the 3.7 and 3.7i for an arvo at a mate's place in a system much like my own so was easy to spot the differences. He also has Mye stands so we could compare those and the Sound Anchors.

The changes between the original 3.7 and upgraded panels and the change with adding stands was essentially different in nature.

The change from 3.7 to 3.7i we agreed was primarily a balance shift with additional fullness in the mid bass to lower mids which made for a slightly richer sound overall and moved the weight a bit more towards the overall 20.7 balance.

The addition of stands for the 3.7 didn't so much shift the tonal balance in the mid bass to mid range but rather made resolution/focus/clarity/agility gains overall and also some additional extension down lower. The stands also make possible the use of isolation footers which can take you further down the resolution and speed route.

Both benefits seem valuable so possibly it comes down to whether you feel like you need a richer presentation (3.7i) or a faster more resolved one (stands and mechanical isolation) while keeping the balance fairly largely similar with more extension down lower tho if your running subs this might be less an issue.

Graham
Hi Graham, I have some additional questions regarding the difference between the 3.7 and 3.7i, any chance you could contact me?
Regards,
Hasse
mettef@telia.com

[Jbauza]

Audition the 3.7i yesterday and was not too impressed to spend the money for the upgrade and shipping. I am currently very satisfied with my 3.7 and an old subwoofer. I think that once I upgrade the subwoofer it will be perfect.

[audio bill]

Jbauza, glad that you had the opportunity to audition the newer version to make up your own mind. Many others are just trying to rationalize their decision whether to upgrade or not based upon what they have read or the lack of details provided about the upgrade.

[vidiot33]

I had 3.7's and sold them. From all I could determine, the 3.7'is are only a marginal, incremental improvement over the original. Whether they're worth the premium, is up to the individual. The guy that bought mine had them shipped to Magnepan for the update, but he got 1 year old 3.7's for $2500.

[mgard]

I had 3.7's and sold them. From all I could determine, the 3.7'is are only a marginal, incremental improvement over the original. Whether they're worth the premium, is up to the individual. The guy that bought mine had them shipped to Magnepan for the update, but he got 1 year old 3.7's for $2500.

Wow, I hope he appreciates the great deal you gave him!


~Mike

[vegaracer1]

Wow,Magnepan really has this upgrade locked down as to what the specific improvements are. If only are national security secrets were this secure.lol:tears: