Sonos to Mod or not to Mod

[JohnThomas]

Well I finally broke down and bought a sonos this week. My butt finally got tired of getting off the couch to change a cd. I put one Z90 and zonebridge in the main system and Z90 in the workout room. I also have on order the new sonos S5 for the bedroom. The controller is real cool and easy to use. Well so far my ears and butt like what they are hearing. I'm wondering if it's the unit or my system(I know it's the system). So now I look at this Z90 and wonder how to make it even better. I've read about the cullen circuits mod SONOS ZP-80/90 MOD ONLY (ZP-80 MOD) - Digital Music Systems - Cullen Circuits (http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=299746) Also Empirical Audio Pace Car Reclocker > Products : Empirical Audio (http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/pace-car-reclocker) I'm assuming my dac would handle all of this jitter and wouldn't need either one. Well for now I order a IEC to C7 adaptor from Voodoo cable $19.00 since I have two or three old Synergistic Research power cords laying in my audio hope chest. VooDoo Cable Power Products & Accessories (http://www.voodoocable.net/VAPA.htm)
Has anyone upgraded their Sonos?

[two dot]

No, but I LOVE my Sonos's and have thought about the upgrades....

We need a beta tester... there are a lot of Sonos users here.

[1KW]

Play it through your MDA1000 and your done.

[jdandy]

Play it through your MDA1000 and your done.

+1 on what David said. I use two ZP90 zone players, one in the main system, with the digital output to the MCD500, and the other ZP90 in the studio all tube system, with the digital output connected to the MCD500 in that system. Both Sonos zone players sound very good. I also like the access to my MS750 server's FLAC files that transmit wirelessly to the ZP90 in the studio.

Personally, I would not mod either of my ZP90 zone players, or my ZP120 amplified zone player. I like them just the way they are.

[Still-One]

I agree with david and Dan, just run it thru the 1000. With the 1000 the limiting factor is the bit rate you have your source material saved, not the SonoS.

[JohnThomas]

Thanks for the insight. I have been running it thru the MDA directly since I run the MDA directly to the the amps. After listening for 3 days straight I can say it a great and enjoyable toy. But the bass sound on my speakers seem pretty muddy with the sonos system (I guess the trick is not to get on it to hard). I did get the C-7 adapter today so I will try an old synergistic cable on it today and see if I can hear any better results. Plus side is Rhapsody, Napster, etc and finding new music. Does one provider provide less compression than the others?

[j3brow]

I just subscribed to Rhapsody this week, predominately accessing it thru my iPhone. I LOVE it. Great service especially for previewing albums as my wishlist is always a least 100 deep.

The Rhapsody experience is pushing me ever closer to grabbing a Sonos system. I played around with the new controller at my local dealer's shop. They had it "hard wired" with Ethernet/CAT 5 (same thing?) and the response time between songs and switching sources was impressive ...very snappy. I have built in wiring in my rooms but lament adding another cable in my room simply from an aesthetic point of view. Anybody compared response time wireless vs hard wired?

Btw, I asked Rhapsody customer service this week and they claim 256kbs MP3s. When listening on my iPhone/iMac, my own mp3s sound better (ripped with EAC/LAME VBR with a minimum 192 max 320 kbs...www.bestmp3guide.com
UberStandard.org :: Über Music Extraction Guide (http://www.uberstandard.org/)


Jason

[Still-One]

Thanks for the insight. I have been running it thru the MDA directly since I run the MDA directly to the the amps. After listening for 3 days straight I can say it a great and enjoyable toy. But the bass sound on my speakers seem pretty muddy with the sonos system (I guess the trick is not to get on it to hard). I did get the C-7 adapter today so I will try an old synergistic cable on it today and see if I can hear any better results. Plus side is Rhapsody, Napster, etc and finding new music. Does one provider provide less compression than the others?
I do not use the SonoS for critical listening. I do have one unit connected to my 2-channel system but that is for looking for new music on Rapsody (decent sound with their bit rate) or Pandora (sound is not too good and the volumes are all over the place from track to track). Besides using it to find new music the best part of having the SonoS is that it captures all of the music off my MS-300 and feeds my whole house system for background music or listening to SonoS playlists that I have created for potential purchases.

[JBT]

Play it through your MDA1000 and your done.

An old thread, but yes, get the Sonos modification. Here's what they say about it

"The Sonos Reclocker modification is now available. This upgrade entirely replaces the mediocre Cirrius Logic CODAC and the associated high jitter clocks. The mod was designed to integrate the SONOS system into a high end audio system thru an outboard Digital to Analog Converter"

I run my Sonos through a High End Dac and the mod did make a difference. My audio guy recommended it.

[jdandy]

JBT.......I use the Sonos ZP90 digital output to the digital input on my MCD500, which reclocks the signal as part of the decoding process. No mod is necessary for very good sound, considering the source is low to medium bit rate streaming off the Internet. Modding the ZP90 won't improve the bit rate of streaming input data.

[JBT]

JBT.......I use the Sonos ZP90 digital output to the digital input on my MCD500, which reclocks the signal as part of the decoding process. No mod is necessary for very good sound, considering the source is low to medium bit rate streaming off the Internet. Modding the ZP90 won't improve the bit rate of streaming input data.

Dan, here's what I was told. Cullen rebuilds the entire output stage on the Sonos which turns it into a 4 thousand dollar transport if you're running it through a good DAC. Right now I'm using an Audio Research DAC 7 which is one of the better DACs on the market right now. I'm far from an expert, but my Dealer says it does make a noticeable difference.

[jdandy]

JBT.......I must be missing something here. The ZP90 has digital output, and analog output which is decoded by it's internal DAC. If all the ZP90 is doing is streaming from the Internet, and only being used with its digital output to an external DAC that reclocks the digital output from the ZP90, what benefit is a rebuild of the output stage? There is no way to improve the bit rate of the streaming signal from Rhapsody or Pandora, so how is Cullen turning a sows ear into a silk purse? NOTE: The sows ear to silk purse is used just as a metaphor, and in no way am I disrespecting the Sonos ZP90. It is an excellent product.

[Alberto]

Play it through your MDA1000 and your done.

+1 for me too. Sonos through MDA1000 is my main source these days. My MCD201 is used very rarely - usually to make sure that it's still working and does not die of complete neglect.

I control the Sonos with a semi-dedicated iPad.

Alberto

[blacsno]

JBT.......I must be missing something here. The ZP90 has digital output, and analog output which is decoded by it's internal DAC. If all the ZP90 is doing is streaming from the Internet, and only being used with its digital output to an external DAC that reclocks the digital output from the ZP90, what benefit is a rebuild of the output stage? There is no way to improve the bit rate of the streaming signal from Rhapsody or Pandora, so how is Cullen turning a sows ear into a silk purse? NOTE: The sows ear to silk purse is used just as a metaphor, and in no way am I disrespecting the Sonos ZP90. It is an excellent product.

Hey faulty source in and nirvana output!! Ahhhh come'on drink the kool-aid!!

[j3brow]

JBT.......I must be missing something here. The ZP90 has digital output, and analog output which is decoded by it's internal DAC. If all the ZP90 is doing is streaming from the Internet, and only being used with its digital output to an external DAC that reclocks the digital output from the ZP90, what benefit is a rebuild of the output stage? There is no way to improve the bit rate of the streaming signal from Rhapsody or Pandora, so how is Cullen turning a sows ear into a silk purse? NOTE: The sows ear to silk purse is used just as a metaphor, and in no way am I disrespecting the Sonos ZP90. It is an excellent product.


I don't think anybody would pay $540 to upgrade their ZP90 to improve the digital signal of streaming mp3s. That certainly is not the driving force for this 'tweak'. I would think only those streaming lossless files off a remote hard drive could possibly benefit from such an upgrade. The ins and outs of digital clocks are out of my expertise to say the least but as with all things audio, all clocks will not be created equally. If the cleaning up the signal by reclocking at the sonos level makes the job of the MCD500 that much easier then I could see the benefit. It's analogous to the power plant premier - better quality power out of the wall (dedicated line, Soloist, power cord) makes the job of the PPP easier to carry out - and we can hear it - despite fact that PPP 'reclocks' the power to DC then back to AC. I would love to hear for myself or read a shootout between a stock and modded unit.

Jason

[1KW]

JBT............ If all the ZP90 is doing is streaming from the Internet, and only being used with its digital output to an external DAC that reclocks the digital output from the ZP90, what benefit is a rebuild of the output stage?

:thumbsup:+1

[blacsno]

Don't FIGHT IT!!! You know you wanna take swig!!! Look even Steve likes it!!!

http://izanbardprince.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/steve_koolaid2.jpg

[AeroSmith]

Dan, here's what I was told. Cullen rebuilds the entire output stage on the Sonos which turns it into a 4 thousand dollar transport if you're running it through a good DAC. Right now I'm using an Audio Research DAC 7 which is one of the better DACs on the market right now. I'm far from an expert, but my Dealer says it does make a noticeable difference.

Time to trade the DAC7 for a DAC8. It has a large buffer, two DAC chips for each channel and two clocks. One clock does 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz. The second clock handles 48, 96 and 192 kHz. Having owned both the DAC7 and now the DAC8 I can say that the DAC8 is vastly better at dramatically reducing jitter from any source, whether it be SONOS or hi-res files from your computer via the USB input. I thought hi-res through the DAC7 was crap. Hi-res through the DAC8 is amazing. The SONOS also sounds better.

My guess is the DAC8 would be a better all around investment than upgrading a SONOS.

[mgard]

Time to trade the DAC7 for a DAC8. It has a large buffer, two DAC chips for each channel and two clocks. One clock does 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz. The second clock handles 48, 96 and 192 kHz. Having owned both the DAC7 and now the DAC8 I can say that the DAC8 is vastly better at dramatically reducing jitter from any source, whether it be SONOS or hi-res files from your computer via the USB input. I thought hi-res through the DAC7 was crap. Hi-res through the DAC8 is amazing. The SONOS also sounds better.

My guess is the DAC8 would be a better all around investment than upgrading a SONOS.

AeroSmith,

Do you have enough time on that ARC DAC8 that you could start a new thread and give us your impressions and maybe a picture or two? :yes: I have been having a hard time trying to find information on it.

Thanks,

~Mike