Please say YES to my warranty

[crytklmass]

Well it appears I blew both my tweeters :tears:(yep, the little microphones) on may pair of 802d's. How I blew both at the same time. ummm got me. I turned on my stereo today and something sounded funny. At 1st I thought it was Pandora through my t.v. so I grabbed my "1812 overture" telarc cd and sure enough I can hear static through both. The more I listen the more pissed I am. I have blown every single pair of speakers I've owned. WTF am I doing wrong? I even upgraded to top of the line amps (see signature). I blew my Klipsch, Mirage, older b&w's I won't list the cheapies. I do listen to music loud, sometimes pushing my 501's to the edge but they never shut down. Besides, B&W speakers should be able to handle the load....right.....
I remember watching a movie (chaos) its an older movie, when the house blew up I heard a loud pop-crack sound, I actually thought it was my sub just hitting low or bouncing off the walls. The rest of the movie sounded good. I even listened to Evanescence last night with a friend and it sounded fine. He did mention something sounded funny but I was also comparing WW equinox with WW eclipse demoing the difference in quality. I thought maybe it was just his ears. Maybe the movie fatigued the tweeter enough for my cd to pop them. Anyway's I bought them in Oct. 06. Please.Please.Please.Please. tell me there warrantied. both at the same time, hmmm sounds like a defect. :banana: I don't want to pack them, drive to dealership, etc Hopefully they can fix them at my house. I would even pay the drive here. As long as the tweeter's are warrantied. arghhhhh, can't find a damn speaker I can't blow..............The Wilson Sasha's sure are looking good now. Maybe its time for a trade or maybe a pair of 800d's, ya think they'll listen to my speakers first..lol

[Still-One]

The 802d's should be able to handle 500 watts according to their specs, at least on unclipped material. If you have blown more that one speaker, I do not think it is the speakers. How do you have your power hooked up. I hope your gear is on two or three separate of at least 15amps each.

[PHC1]

I don't know if you are actually pushing the 501s to the max like you mentioned but if you are, you are exceeding the max capabilities of the 802Ds. Your 802D's are mostly a 4 ohm impedance from 10Khz to 20Khz. The 501s are capable of 1000w on short bursts from the 4 ohm tap into 4 ohms which is way above the 500w recommended by 802D. :scratch2: You may have blown a crossover or maybe the tweeter but one thing for sure, it wasn't due to clipping since the 501s are not supposed to clip.

I have to say, if you like to hear houses exploding through your speakers, maybe you should get a more robust speaker meant for that kind of abuse. See XR200 thread. :D Good luck with getting them fixed, hopefully it won't be too much of a hassle. :thumbsup:

[crytklmass]

1 MC501's is plugged into my monster hdp2500 power conditioner, that is plugged into the wall outlet 20amp circuit. The other MC501 is plugged into a power strip which is plugged into the same wall outlet. I only have 2 outlets, I really need to add another for dedicated stereo. I was testing to see if it made a difference between the Monster Power conditioner vs. directly to the wall. But it's been that way for the past few weeks.
After market 12g. power cables. I think they blew during a movie so they were not turned up that loud. Perhaps 30-35 on my MX-136. Music is played around 40+ volume level. It is possible they received a spike while listening to pandora via my blu ray player. sometimes pandora skips or whatever you want to call it when switching songs.
I have my MC501's set at 8 ohm's, should I change them to 4 ohms? I never thought of that.

[crytklmass]

Do you think if it is just my tweeter the dealer can make a house call remove the tweeter and replace vs. packing up the entire speaker?
I should also say I dont always push my amps/speakers to the max but I do listen to loud volumes no louder than any showroom though. 80% volume set around 25-30. 20% of the time needles bounce between 50-500.

[Still-One]

1 MC501's is plugged into my monster hdp2500 power conditioner, that is plugged into the wall outlet 20amp circuit. The other MC501 is plugged into a power strip which is plugged into the same wall outlet. I only have 2 outlets, I really need to add another for dedicated stereo. I was testing to see if it made a difference between the Monster Power conditioner vs. directly to the wall. But it's been that way for the past few weeks.
After market 12g. power cables. I think they blew during a movie so they were not turned up that loud. Perhaps 30-35 on my MX-136. Music is played around 40+ volume level. It is possible they received a spike while listening to pandora via my blu ray player. sometimes pandora skips or whatever you want to call it when switching songs.
I have my MC501's set at 8 ohm's, should I change them to 4 ohms? I never thought of that.
Yes, the 802d's seem to like the 4ohm tap better off the 501's.

Myself, I would not plug the 501's into a conditioner or strip unless it is one that you are very comfortable that is not limiting power. That might be along the lines of the Shunyata Hydra, Transparent Power Isolator Reference or PPP's. I am not too familiar with some of the others.

[jdandy]

You can be watching a movie with an average amplifier output of 30 watts, and have an explosion or car crash, or earthquake where the sound peaks can easily be 15 to 18 dB above the average. Even a 12 dB peak over average will demad the amp to output 480 watts. A 15 dB peak over the stated average output can require an amp to deliver 960 watts peak. With the stated power handling capabilities of your speakers, that's just a 3 dB margin between safety, and obliterated tweeters.

[crytklmass]

It was probably the explosion in the movie then. Thanks for the advice Stillone about switching to 4 ohms. Maybe if I had done that I wouldn't have this current problem. Guess you never know. I'll be adding an additional outlet as well. I guess I ass umed plugging them into my monster power conditioner would be better than directly into the wall. If I remove the tweeter to check if it's that or a crossover I'll void my warranty. Is there some way I can test to make sure it's the tweeter vs. just my ear? Maybe an SPL meter or special cd?

[PHC1]

If we assume that it was excessive power that did your tweeters or crossover in, then switching taps is irrelevant. The 501s will actually put out more power from the 4 ohm tap into a 4 ohm load. Since the 501s don't clip which is what usually kills tweeters, the fact that both of them got damaged at the same time, all leads me to believe that you simply exceeded the power handling capabilities of your speakers while watching a movie with exploding houses. :D

[jdandy]

the fact that both of them got damaged at the same time, all leads me to believe that you simply exceeded the power handling capabilities of your speakers while watching a movie with exploding houses. :D

Serge.......Don't sugar coat it. :lmao:

[crytklmass]

And hear I thought the 501's would be a better match than a single MC205 @200wt pet channel. Am I giving my B&W's more power than they can handle? Guess I won't be upgrading to the 1.k's Will the Sasha's or XR200 be a better choice or perhaps B&W 800D?

[PHC1]

And hear I thought the 501's would be a better match than a single MC205 @200wt pet channel. Am I giving my B&W's more power than they can handle? Guess I won't be upgrading to the 1.k's Will the Sasha's or XR200 be a better choice or perhaps B&W 800D?

I am afraid to suggest anything to you. :D The XR200 are rated at 600w, don't know what the Sasha's can take, not about to find out. :D Maybe a pair of XRT1K's at 1200w, yeah, that should have you covered.

[crytklmass]

Ya but look at the price. Man should I buy amp. What can I really change? The only other coincidence is I have been using the WW equinox 6 i.c. , I just added the Eclipse 5.2 for comparison. Odd coincidence it happenend a week after those were connected. (im not stating those are the reason) They did brighten things up a bit.
So, anything I can buy to test if it really is the tweeter besides my ear? test cd? There is no static of hiss when there not playing anything while the amps are on. but once I play a cd it's easy to hear the static and hiss. I still have 2 years remaining on my warranty, I assume they will cover the 1st incident. how can they prove abuse? which i dont believe Im guilty of. Odd it didnt blow the center speaker which is where 80% were the sound originates in a movie.PHC1 how far have you pushed your Sasha's? Just 2 ch or movies as well?

[PHC1]

Ya but look at the price. Man should I buy amp. What can I really change? The only other coincidence is I have been using the WW equinox 6 i.c. , I just added the Eclipse 5.2 for comparison. Odd coincidence it happenend a week after those were connected. (im not stating those are the reason) They did brighten things up a bit.
So, anything I can buy to test if it really is the tweeter besides my ear? test cd? There is no static of hiss when there not playing anything while the amps are on. but once I play a cd it's easy to hear the static and hiss. I still have 2 years remaining on my warranty, I assume they will cover the 1st incident. how can they prove abuse? which i dont believe Im guilty of. Odd it didnt blow the center speaker which is where 80% were the sound originates in a movie.PHC1 how far have you pushed your Sasha's? Just 2 ch or movies as well?

Aren't you using the MC205 for the center channel? Have you ever seen it powerguard by the way? It puts out 200w so it may have powerguarded and your center channel is ok with absorbing 200w while the 501s went on to deliver much more power than that to your main speakers.

You don't need a test CD, if you hear static or hiss like you say while playing a CD, you have a problem. I'd try to eliminate and troubleshoot one component at a time, maybe it is something else in your system and not actually blown speakers.

[crytklmass]

I just threw in the center options as a bug in your ear. Just seems that during the explosion it would have radiated from the center to the fronts since the center reproduces most sound during a movie. My center channel is working perfectly. I could connect my i.c. from my MC501's to my MC205 and drive all channels that way. That would eliminate the MC501 as the problem. My only other option is to remove the tweeter from my HTM2D and place it atop one of my 802d's but that alot of work, just to troubleshoot. would be easier and cheaper to call a salesman to my home for a close inspections. besides, they are still under warranty.

[jdandy]

crytklmass.......Make the telephone call. :yes:

[crytklmass]

Strange thing happened today Dan.. I disconnected the WW eclipse 5.2 I.C and noticed one one end of the cable (XLR) the shielding was pulled out exposing the cable so I placed my Transparent Ultra MM2 I.C.'s on. switched my amps to 4ohms and so far they sound good. Not sure I understand what happened. Maybe the I.C.'s are bad, they worked great the first week. I did reach behind my stand to straighten up my wires, maybe I pulled something loose (kinda like cable t.v., sometimes you picture is fuzzy but when you move the line the picture comes in perfect). Is there some kind of home test I can try vs. a service call? I never blew a tweeter before. I know what a blown woofer sounds like. There is NO static, I played Pink Floyd "Welcome to the machine" It sounded perfect. The only change was my I.C. and switching to 4 ohms. Weird.. I guess I'll reconnect the WW eclipse and listen to the difference, maybe the XLR termination is bad...hmmmmmmm strange indeed.

[jdandy]

crytklmass.......That sure would be a blessing if that's all it actually turned out to be. Still, some good infornation about power verses peak power has been offered here, and the maximum power rating of your speakers should be considered every time you crank it up, particularly on movie sound tracks where there is such a huge decible difference between dialog and explosion sound effects.

[PHC1]

That would be a good ending to a problem if all it is is a bad cable. :yes:

[80B]

Let's hope that's it for this problem. :yes:

[1KW]

When I first hooked up myJLF112 I had hardley anything coming out of it. Dan said try changing the cable, I told him the ic was brand new. Guess what I had a bad cable, the new cable fixed the problem. I also had a bad cable that came with the microphone for the ARO on the sub. . Bottom line bad cables are not uncommon.

[PHC1]

When I first hooked up myJLF112 I had hardley anything coming out of it. Dan said try changing the cable, I told him the ic was brand new. Guess what I had a bad cable, the new cable fixed the problem. I also had a bad cable that came with the microphone for the ARO on the sub. . Bottom line bad cables are not uncommon.

Sounds like a punishment for being a cable skeptic. :D

[Masterlu]

Sounds like a punishment for being a cable skeptic. :D

:laughin:

Serge, you are so cruel...

[jdandy]

Sounds like a punishment for being a cable skeptic. :D

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think he still needs a little more punishment for cable skepticism. :yes:

[Masterlu]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think he still needs a little more punishment for cable skepticism. :yes:

http://img2.allposters.com/images/EPH/8792.jpg

[Still-One]

http://img2.allposters.com/images/EPH/8792.jpg
:lmao: :lmao:

That's too much....

[crytklmass]

Yep, it's official.....Bad cable. Very strange indeed. I can visually see where the cable shielding is pulled away from the XLR connector. I tested both my WireWorld Equinox 6 and Transparent Ultra MM2. Both worked fine. When I connected the WW Eclipse 5.2 it sounded fine which was strange but when I wiggled the cable it sounded like my tweeter's were blown again. static, hiss, etc. Very very strange, perhaps I can just cut the cable and re terminate to correct the problem. Very relieved I did not blow my speakers. Your advice on movie's and power consumption will be taken seriously. I do enjoy action and sci-fi, especially "Star Trek 10 nemesis" when they rammed the opposing ship. massive bass for a while. Also the gunfire scene in "Heat" and of course my loud music. I did change to 4 ohms on my amps, not sure im hearing a difference. I noticed I don't have to turn up my receiver as loud to achieve the same performance.

[jdandy]

crytklmass.......Cancel the service call. Pheew!

[PHC1]

Great news. :yes: But do be careful with all that ship ramming...

[Masterlu]

Don't mod the Wireworld cable, you will void the warranty. They will fix it properly for free.

[80B]

It seemed odd blowing a diamond tweeter, after all it's the hardest substance on earth. :D

[crytklmass]

It seemed odd blowing a diamond tweeter, after all it's the hardest substance on earth. :D
That's what I thought, not to mention both.... what would the odds be. I'll call WireWorld Ivan and ask about fixing the cable. I would still like to upgrade to the WW Silver Eclipse but now im wondering (stupid) if the cable is too bright for my B&W's. I guess because the cable was to blame im afraid the silver's will blow em` although I know better. As soon as my court case is over I'll be upgrading to either ALL transparent Ultra MM2's or WW Silver Eclipse. Odd's are favoring WW due to price. Just can't beat the price compared to Transparent. I do like Transparents upgrade policy though. It does leave room to grow without losing 80% of the cables value. decisions, decisions.
Well, back to WW2 in Hi-Def on the history channel.

[PHC1]

Which cable was this? You mentioned only 1 cable but heard the problem in both tweeters? :scratch2:

[Masterlu]

Which cable was this? You mentioned only 1 cable but heard the problem in both tweeters? :scratch2:

BTE, Blown Tweeter Envy ;)

[crytklmass]

Both cables are separated at the XLR termination and pointing 90 degrees down. Almost like the amp was pressed against the wall causing the wire to make a hard 90 degree turn at the termination point. Pulling the sheathing loose. Thats my only explanation. Ill send em to w.w. for repair and reconnect and see what happens. I think they just got pinched. I personally leave enough room but understand sometimes $h!t happens. Better a cable than a speaker. Ill be auditioning the Wilson Sasha's, Maxx3's B&W800D,& McIntosh XR200 if there still on display. Do you know Stillone?

[Still-One]

Both cables are separated at the XLR termination and pointing 90 degrees down. Almost like the amp was pressed against the wall causing the wire to make a hard 90 degree turn at the termination point. Pulling the sheathing loose. Thats my only explanation. Ill send em to w.w. for repair and reconnect and see what happens. I think they just got pinched. I personally leave enough room but understand sometimes $h!t happens. Better a cable than a speaker. Ill be auditioning the Wilson Sasha's, Maxx3's B&W800D,& McIntosh XR200 if there still on display. Do you know Stillone?
I just returned to the US late Monday night. I will probably head out to Paragon in a day or two to see if the Maxx 3's are still there. I doubt he has XR200's, a least not 'till he can sell the 1K's. Maybe he will give you a great deal on them. :)

[PHC1]

Both cables are separated at the XLR termination and pointing 90 degrees down. Almost like the amp was pressed against the wall causing the wire to make a hard 90 degree turn at the termination point. Pulling the sheathing loose. Thats my only explanation. Ill send em to w.w. for repair and reconnect and see what happens. I think they just got pinched. I personally leave enough room but understand sometimes $h!t happens. Better a cable than a speaker. Ill be auditioning the Wilson Sasha's, Maxx3's B&W800D,& McIntosh XR200 if there still on display. Do you know Stillone?

Now it all makes sense. :yes:

Have fun auditioning. :thumbsup:

[Fanaticalism]

Hey Crytklmass,

Just wanted to chime here and say that I am glad your speakers are fine.

On another note, if you were looking to make a move for a more "HT" type speaker, power handling isn't the spec you should be concerned with. What you want to look at is speaker sensitivity and compression/distortion. The more sensitive a speaker, the easier it will reach the required the spl peaks at the listening position with minimal distortion. It doesn't matter if a speaker can handle 1000w if it is inefficient because the cones will lose their shape when trying to achieve those 105db dynamic peaks (or more depending on your listening level preferences).

You make want to consider a secondary system for those "Knock your socks off", or blow your ear drum levels. Pricing isn't too bad either (although they are pretty large in some cases). There are some active options as well (run you around 3k per speaker for the LCR).

[crytklmass]

Well, my distortion is back. It's really bugging me. I am keeping sound levels to a minimum I just finished watching "The Golden Compass" when the polar bear roared I heard the same POP again. It sounded like it came from my right rear B&W "SCM1" but not much sounds is sent to the rears. My listening level was about 30 on my MX-136. It could just be me but I keep hearing that static sound from my 802D "right front". I called my sales person, he recommended I download "Tech Master PEB" I did a search but don't think Im locating the correct track. Its supposed to send differing KHZ to the speaker while I listen for distortion. Anyone heard of this or sometype of test track I can download? You can P.M. me if you like.
*Legal Disclaimer* "I do not condone downloading free music" Does that make me safe. :)

[jdandy]

crytklmass.......This is what you need. Order the Rives Test CD2. It has everything you will need to test your system, and your speakers from the lowest lows, to the highest highs. Rives Test CD 2 (http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html)

[crytklmass]

Thanks Dan, I think it may be the voice coil which is why its hit or miss. At low levels everything sounds fine as soon as a loud boom or sound it seems to crackle under the stress. Ughhhhh.

Bob

[crytklmass]

Forgot to mention.... What about using a Radio Shack or similar SPL Meter? Never used one before, would that help? Im ignorant about this subject.

[Still-One]

Well, my distortion is back. It's really bugging me. I am keeping sound levels to a minimum I just finished watching "The Golden Compass" when the polar bear roared I heard the same POP again. It sounded like it came from my right rear B&W "SCM1" but not much sounds is sent to the rears. My listening level was about 30 on my MX-136. It could just be me but I keep hearing that static sound from my 802D "right front". I called my sales person, he recommended I download "Tech Master PEB" I did a search but don't think Im locating the correct track. Its supposed to send differing KHZ to the speaker while I listen for distortion. Anyone heard of this or sometype of test track I can download? You can P.M. me if you like.
*Legal Disclaimer* "I do not condone downloading free music" Does that make me safe. :)
Which driver is the distortion coming from? The tweeter, mid or woofer? I would be surprised if the tweeter was involved in a polar bears roar, but you never know.

[PHC1]

Are you getting the same problem with 2 channel music? It could be processor related problem.

[crytklmass]

Didn't even consider the processor. I'll do some testing and see what happens.

[weird]

hello

Sounds like your speaks are seeing too much DC. I would look at the output of your amp.

[Ron-C]

MC501s can not put out any DC by design. That is Zero. You may have overpowered your speakers and damaged them. This typically is when the voice coil and former are pulling loose from the diaphragm or dome. The way to check for this is to have your dealer bring out a frequency oscillator and sweep each speaker at a level of one or two watts. You will hear the buzz that will identify the offending speaker.
You can use MC501 with your speakers on the 8 or 4 ohm taps. If you play the system loudly you will quickly exceed the speakers 500 watt rating when using the 8 ohm tap. Peaks over 1500 watts are very possible and the speaker is not designed for that. 4 ohms is much safer but again you may peak over 500 watts. Monitoring the power meters on the amp is a good idea and keep the power below the speaker's 500 watt rating.

Thanks,

[Poobah]

Ouch... Very sorry to hear about this situation. As an owner of the 802D, I was warned when i bought them that under no circumstance do they warrenty the Diamond Tweeters.. (well apart from manufacturer defect). Another customer's son infact removed the protective cover and touched the tweeter cause he probably wanted to know what a diamond tweeter felt like. They don't like to be touched. :nono:

I haven't even attempted to remove the cover off of mine, and in fact I'm not entirely sure they can be removed anymore due to similar situations as above.

The good news is, you can go out and get a pair of 800 or 801?

I think replacement tweet's are i the area of 1500-2000 bucks each, at least that is what i was told. And I have no idea of the complexity involved in changing them.

Good luck

p.s. I'm glad you posted this thread though.. Up till now i have had my mc300 feeding my 802D via the 8Ohm tap... I think I'll change it to the 4ohm tap. Knowledge is always good.

[eddiel]

p.s. I'm glad you posted this thread though.. Up till now i have had my mc300 feeding my 802D via the 8Ohm tap... I think I'll change it to the 4ohm tap. Knowledge is always good.

Good point. It's why I read threads even though my equipement might be different or the topic seems unrelated. You always learn something or pick up little bits of knowledge.

Eddie

[Poobah]

Bump for updates.

[KahunaCanuck]

He has his 802Ds for sale on another site, so I assume they are fine.

[Poobah]

Bump,

You go into hiding? :confused-29:

[toddmorr]

well...no cable problem for me, but I do think i have a blown 800D tweeter. It is not cracked or deformed in any way, but it does have the slightest discoloration across about a half inch of the tweeter, almost as if something is discoloring it from behind the dome. the tweeter is dead silent now, and I think it happened when I was listening to some choir music rather loudly. Powered by a Rotel 200w amp that had the volume at the "11 oclock" position. Yeah i know, that amp is not up to snuff of the 800D. I switched speaker cables at the amp outputs L to R to diagnose so I know its the speaker for sure. Can it be anything else in the speaker besides a tweeter blown from clipping? are there fuses or something else i can check that might be blown in the speaker?.....obviously I'd like to avoid the 1200 bucks for a new tweeter.

[liddown]

May sound very strange, but make sure the silver tube that extends out the rear of the tweeter housing is tight. I actually had a connection on one tweeter that was loose, and would not play if the tube was at all loose. B&W did send a replacement tweeter and the problem was solved. Changing the tweeter can be done at home, non magnetic pliers help!

[redm]

Tweeters are pretty easy to change and B&W has all the schematics on the website. Mainly just unscrewing the silver tube in the rear and carefully sliding out. Tweeter is around $1100.

On a side note, this thread is hilarious. Houses blowing up tweeters. Classic!

Sent from my iPad Mini

[BlueSky]

[quote=KahunaCanuck;68326]He has his 802Ds for sale on another site, so I assume they are fine.

This thread has been an interesting and, at times, entertaining read and then to stumble upon a revelation such as this..... I'm pleased to find out that the B&Ws were OK. After all, they do build a robust speaker.

[toddmorr]

well, its definitive....i did a resistance test across the bad terminals on the bad tweeter and it showed no resistance--0 Ohms. For fun I checked the good tweeter and it showed 3+ ohms which according to the dealer is more or less in spec. $1200 bummer. Lesson learned---do not drive power hungry speakers loudly with 200w amps. Have not been a big fan of McIntosh but that feature they sell that prevents clipping would have value in this case.

[williamhds]

Just wanted to chime in here and say that I had bought the 1st series 802ds new. I had blown both tweeters and one woofer. I was shocked and very concerned about replacement and warranty issues. These speakers were powered by 501 monos from mac. Never did I overdrive the speakers with more than say 100-200 watts at any given time. The dealer had all components replaced and all was well, however I never felt confident with the speakers again and ended up with wilson sashas and upgraded to 1.2kws. I was informed later that the series 1 802ds had tweeter issues that have been resolved in the new series. All this being said I still have and love my 803s units in my theatre room on a secondary 5.1 setup.

[RebelMan]

Curious, were you running the amp on the 4ohm tap?

[williamhds]

4 ohm taps always. Im sure if I had the series 2ds I would have had no tweeter issues as the new series resolved the issues. But now Im a wilson sasha owner and will not go back. Stll love my 803s as they are bullet proof and sound excellent.

[RebelMan]

Are your 803s "S", "D" or "D2"? I never experienced an functional issue with the original D tweeters but I have seen cases where questionable amplifiers that passed (leaked) DC blow out the tweeters.

[Still-One]

I owned 802D's and powered them with 501's with no issues at all. I have a feeling that other issues were at play here.

[williamhds]

I owned 802D's and powered them with 501's with no issues at all. I have a feeling that other issues were at play here.

The issue was probably a lemon pair which I did purchase new from a dealer.

[williamhds]

Are your 803s "S", "D" or "D2"? I never experienced an functional issue with the original D tweeters but I have seen cases where questionable amplifiers that passed (leaked) DC blow out the tweeters.

Just 803 model s. I had 804 n then went to 803s s version and still love the way they sound for a theatre room. htm3s centre. The 803s image very well on 2 channel audio and in the 5.1 movie mode its all I would want for movies.

[RebelMan]

The 803S is tonally balanced and makes a superb speaker for all listening applications. It is truly deserving of the finest in ancillaries and the differences show. It's unfortunate B&W sought to eliminate it in the new series. It didn't have to be that way.

[williamhds]

The 803S is tonally balanced and makes a superb speaker for all listening applications. It is truly deserving of the finest in ancillaries and the differences show. It's unfortunate B&W sought to eliminate it in the new series. It didn't have to be that way.

For me its like owning a piece of bw history. Love the look and sound of them.

[RebelMan]

I did too. ;)

[williamhds]

I still give a god ear when I visit a friend who has my original 804n speakers. The sound is simple yet nice and transforms me into time when things were simple.