BAT VK-52se vs. BAT VK-53se

[Swelfelo]

Has anyone compared the 52se against 53se?

[chessman]

Has anyone compared the 52se against 53se?

I have not, but I am very interested in the answer. ;)

[bjski]

I'm also wondering if I should upgrade my 32SE to 33SE.

[pete6737]

I wish this BAT forum was busier. It would be nice to have more discussion here. Pete

[chessman]

I wish this BAT forum was busier. It would be nice to have more discussion here. Pete

Amen. I can't figure out why the BAT owners are not hanging out here, unless they think this site is solely a McIntosh fan group, which it surely is not.

[PROL]

I have the vi-53 SE with the vk_255 SE amp.

I am very happy with this combination but I would like to know if BAT preamp is a good match with other SS amp like D'agostino momentum ?

Thank you for your answers.

[PROL]

Which cable do you use with BAT ?

Thank your for your answers

[chessman]

Which cable do you use with BAT ?

Thank your for your answers

I use WireWorld speaker cables, interconnects and power cords with great success. :)

[PROL]

Thank you chessman,

I use Kubala sosna Emotion and I think it's a good match. I would like to know if Transparent is a good combination with BAT ?

[chessman]

PROL, what speakers are you using?

[PROL]

Chessman, Wilson audio sophia 3

[Swelfelo]

How the hell did the thread devolve from my question to a series of utterly non-responsive and tangential posts?

[chessman]

How the hell did the thread devolve from my question to a series of utterly non-responsive and tangential posts?

Sorry Swelfelo. You are right.

[PROL]

Your are right Swelfelo. Sorry.

To answer your question I had a VK-32 SE before my vi-53 SE. I can't make the comparison with the vi-52 SE but the improvement is great regarding the 32 SE. The rest of my system : amp : VK-255 SE ; Wilson audio Sophia 3, Wadia 381 cd player and Kubala Sosna Emotion cable.

[Swelfelo]

The question remains unanswered. I will restate it:

What is the difference in sound between the 52-SE and 53-SE? If there is an audible one, is it worth $6K?

If you have not auditioned both preamps and are not answering the question based upon your personal empirical experience, I truly do not care to read about a comparison of other unrelated equipment in my thread. Please start your own thread. Thank you for your anticipated courtesy.

[Victor Khomenko]

What is the difference in sound between the 52-SE and 53-SE? If there is an audible one, is it worth $6K?



From my, purely subjective, perspective, the difference is very obvious, you don't need to struggle to hear it. So far we have heard only positive reactions on the change - especially noticeable when people upgrade their units.

The transformers also totally eliminate any concerns about impedance matching with power amplifiers.

[dubkarma]

I'm also wondering if I should upgrade my 32SE to 33SE.

I'm wondering exactly the same thing. Is the investment worth it? Is it possible to describe in what areas performance is improved? Any such assessments are, of course, somewhat subjective and dependant on overall system synergy, but it would be great to hear from a listener who's gone from caps to output transformers.

[chessman]

I'm wondering exactly the same thing. Is the investment worth it? Is it possible to describe in what areas performance is improved? Any such assessments are, of course, somewhat subjective and dependant on overall system synergy, but it would be great to hear from a listener who's gone from caps to output transformers.

Since Victor Khomenko designed both amps and says there is an improvement I think you can be sure there is one. Whether the improvement is worth it to you is a subjective decision that only you can answer, which probably means auditioning them or accepting the risk.

[Swelfelo]

I am very close to ordering the upgrade for my VK-52SE and will report on any differences I remember hearing when this is done and back in my system.

In the meantime, I will be listening to my VK-42SE, which, to be totally honest, I have never done. So this will be very interesting for me to compare tube against solid state preamps and the tubed upgrade for the last generation. BTW, there is now a VK-43SE but no indication on the company website if an upgrade path exists. When I call for an RMA number, I will inquire.

Cordially,

Swelfelo

[chessman]

I am eagerly awaiting your report. :)

[Swelfelo]

My VK-52SE was packed up and shipped off to Wilmington, Delaware today for an update to VK-53SE status. I have inserted temporarily in her place my VK-42SE, and she fired up just fine. The quality, fit and finish, and feel are the same as the VK-52SE.

The VK-42Se has not been used for at least four years (in fact, I never listened to her at all in the main rig) because the VK-52SE was just that compelling that I could not bear to swap her out. I am the second owner and I do not know how long the VK-42SE sat unused in the hands of the first one.

Right out of the box, my first impression is that the VK-42Se is cold and needs some warm up time before I can issue a dispositive comparison. However, comparing my solid state preamp to her tubed sister, it seems that the sibilants are a tad rounded off, there is slightly less dynamic range, the sound is flatter with less detail and less musicality, i.e., it is not as engaging. The soundstages appears to be roughly equal between the two preamps. Imaging is also roughly equal. Please understand that overall, the VK-42Se is one of the better solid state preamps I have ever listened to and my preliminary comments are points of comparison between two members of the same family. I will update my thoughts as the VK-42SE warms up, and I will leave her on for a couple of days to stabilize fully.

I asked Geoff Poor if there is a similar upgrade path for the VK-42SE and was told that one does not exist as the architecture for the VK-43SE is highly dissimilar and would not be cost effective to upgrade. He advised selling the VK-42SE and buying a new VK-43SE. I do not have another piggy bank to break open just yet so I hold off for now.

Geoff also advised that there is a very long break in period for the VK-53SE.

I have communicated both by email and telephone with Geoff Poor and the man is a total gentleman, responsive, and extremely helpful. I cannot say enough good things about BAT and Geoff.

[Swelfelo]

Wow, the VK-42SE has been cooking for 20 hours and sounds fully fleshed out, warm, dynamic with great treble and bass extension. Some of the inner detail is still being elided but the sibilants are not as abbreviated as before.

Curiously, I am using the volume setting at a significantly lower level than my VK-52SE to get the same volume level to my ear.

All in all, a magnificent preamp and I can happily live with her. Truth be told, I could live with her if the other one never reappeared after her update.

[Swelfelo]

I left the VK-42Se on continuously since 8/30/15 and she continued to improve in terms of warmth, dynamism, bass and treble extension. The soundstage is freaking huge and each instrument can be precisely located. I really cannot say that the differences between the siblings are great, but the VK-52SE ultimately has a just touch more soul in my opinion; it sounds less like a piece of electronics and the music just pours forth.

The rest of my system starting at the wall outlet is, as follows. Two dedicated 20 amp lines, two PS Audio outlets, two Shunyata Venom HC 20amp power cords to 2 Equitech Model 2Q line conditioners. The cd player is a Rega Isis. I am using B&W Matrix 802 Series 2 loudspeakers, which have been modified with all new crossovers caps and resistors and the removal of the protection circuit. The loudspeakers sit on Target Stands. Amplification consists of two Hypex NCore 400's on the midrange and tweeters and two Ghent Ice amps on the woofers. The Iceamps are fed into two Krell Bass Alignment models. All power cords are Shunyata Black Mamba CX HC models, most of the interconnects are Shunyata Anaconda Ztron Models (the rest being home brewed cables I made). All interconnects are balanced. Speaker cables are Shunyata Anacondas. There are VPI magic bricks on every component.

Once the VK-42SE warmed up, I have had to increase the volume setting to same level as I used to use with the VK-52SE. I am usually at 68-70 out of the 140 increments.

Today the VK-53SE arrived via FedEx. I should note that when I had attempted to pay for my upgrade with a debit card yesterday, BAT was unable to process payment and shipped my preamp back to me just on a promise that I would send a check! I did not even ask for this treatment and would have waited for my check to arrive. What a class operation. Also, the Production Manager, Vladimir Shutov, spent a good half an hour educating me on tube selection and replacement procedures. This is a stellar company that delivers the goods and has the service to back it up. My preamp was upgraded and replaced in about a week. My next installment will cover introduction of the VK-53SE into my system.

[Swelfelo]

As I write this post, I have about three hours of burn in/listening time on my VK-53SE and I am very impressed so far. I am putting the VK-42SE up for sale!

Geoff Poor of BAT had written me that:

"Please take note of the fact your unit will now need significant break-in because of the massive new power supply components. Additionally, the custom transformers (which have replaced the output signal capacitors) will need some burn-in as well. I’ve always enjoyed the process, however, because you can really hear the results."

"The burn-in time requirement varies as to how broken-in your 52SE already was. The typical time required to break in a new BAT 5 series pre-amp approaches 500 hours! I’d guess you’ll notice a smoothing in the upper mids after the first week, while the bass region will extend and get more 'interesting' - revealing more of the texture of different bass instruments. The top octaves will appear to be 'sweeter', with more 'air' on the top. Cymbals will seem more real after a couple of weeks."


I had at least 500 hours of use on my VK-52E so I can say that she was fully broken in. Some differences are immediately apparent with the VK-53SE as against her predecessor--the VK-53SE is simply more dynamic, nimble and the instrumentation seems richer and there is greater low level detail. I can hear that the extension of treble and bass is slightly constrained as I remember them from before, but the core midrange is there. This preamp is a powerful, muscular beast and it is impressive to think that she will only get better over time.

When I sent in the VK-52SE, due to noise three of the tubes were replaced with current production Sovteks from 2014. I had not heard any clicking or other noises before sending in my preamp--so maybe shipping took its toll. Part of me cringed initially when I heard this because I stockpiled a very large supply of rare and expensive 6H30DR pre-1986 tubes with the preconception that they would sound better than the newer, supposedly inferior production--after all the internet said so. Vladimir, BAT's Production Manager, stated that in his opinion, that the sound quality between the new and old tubes was equal, but that the discard rate was substantially higher for the new production. Of course the DR rated tubes have substantially longer life expectancy than the newer ones. If I remember correctly, he said they discard 2/3 of the new tubes to find ones that are acceptable. The discard rate for the older stock is closer to 50%. Ouch--half, if not more, of my very expensive tube inventory might be worthless. Tube rolling is not practical in my configuration so if it ain't broke....

I will revisit this thread after another 60 hours of time with the VK-53SE and report any additional changes I can hear. However, I can already say that there is a marked improvement between the last generation and this preamp. The upgrade was worth every penny and I am happy that I took the plunge.

[audio bill]

Greg Poor of BAT had written me that:

I believe that you meant Geoff Poor, BAT's Director of Sales and a great guy!

[johndoe21ro]

Any news?
__________________
Amp: BAT VK-655SE
Pre-amp/Digital: exaSound e32 w UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; SOtM tX-USBultra w UpTone LPS1.2; Apple Mac Mini w UpTone DC Conversion Kit & UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; Squeezelite w Logitech Media Server 7.9.0
Speakers: Triangle Magellan Cello II
Cables: AudioQuest WEL XLR, AudioQuest Everest, AudioQuest Hurricane HC, AudioQuest NRG-1000, AudioQuest Diamond USB
Rack: Solid Tech Hybrid
Tweaks: Omicron Stabilizzatore Armonico & Gold Evolution SE; IsoTek Sigmas GII w Optimum EVO3; Furutech FT-SWS (R) AC Outlet; Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse

[tom_hankins]

Swelfelo, any updates on how the 53se is sounding? I am also a fan of BAT preamps. (31se,51se,42se,REX) and just picked up a used 52se to have upgraded to either REX or 53se.

[Weirdcuba]

it's not personal experience, but see what BAT represents as a user's statements regarding differences in the vk-52SE vs the vk-53SE. The discussion is about halfway down in the BAT FAQs: www.balanced.com/faq

[tom_hankins]

it's not personal experience, but see what BAT represents as a user's statements regarding differences in the vk-52SE vs the vk-53SE. The discussion is about halfway down in the BAT FAQs: FAQ | Balanced Audio (http://www.balanced.com/faq)

Thanks for the link! Merry Christmas BAT people! :music:

[johndoe21ro]

Merry Christmas! :thumbsup:
__________________
Amp: BAT VK-655SE
Pre-amp/Digital: exaSound e32 w UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; SOtM tX-USBultra w UpTone LPS1.2; Apple Mac Mini w UpTone DC Conversion Kit & UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; Squeezelite w Logitech Media Server 7.9.0
Speakers: Triangle Magellan Cello II
Cables: AudioQuest WEL XLR, AudioQuest Everest, AudioQuest Hurricane HC, AudioQuest NRG-1000, AudioQuest Diamond USB
Rack: Solid Tech Hybrid
Tweaks: Omicron Stabilizzatore Armonico & Gold Evolution SE; IsoTek Sigmas GII w Optimum EVO3; Furutech FT-SWS (R) AC Outlet; Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse

[chessman]

Merry Christmas to all!

[Swelfelo]

I now have about 100 hours of dedicated listening time with the VK-53SE. In the meantime, several changes occurred in the rest of the system. I finished upgrading my interconnects so that the entire system is connected by Shunyata Anaconda Balanced Ztrons. Also, I rebuilt my Ncores NC400s with better cases, connections and grounding--I have ferrite chokes and HiFi Supreme Tuning fuses on the way. Some of my improvements in the other areas of the system seem to allow the preamp to shine more as the fundamental sonic character has not shifted.

My initial impressions of the preamp in the earlier postings above have not been altered much, except that there is more detail, better definition in the bass, more treble extension and the midrange is just liquid. The sound is quick and fluid, supremely musical and powerful when the material warrants, and intimate for softer pieces. When the preamp was burning in I would say that the cohesiveness was not all there altogether and there was spotlighting of the treble and bass. Now it is completely cohesive. The sound is just organically beautiful top to bottom.

[nc42acc]

I would like to know more about your Ncore amps please. Thanks.

[Swelfelo]

That would really belong in a separate thread about Ncore amps. I started this thread in the BAT section to compare two of their preamplifiers.

[nc42acc]

Sorry I tried to PM you but your profile doesn't allow them. Thanks.

[Swelfelo]

I seem to have no ability to send or receive private messages in my settings. I also cannot find a way to PM you. Perhaps some administrator will address this problem.

[chessman]

I seem to have no ability to send or receive private messages in my settings. I also cannot find a way to PM you. Perhaps some administrator will address this problem.

You have to be a "Subscriber" to enable private messaging.

[Swelfelo]

Chessman, Well, that explains it. Thank you.

Marty, I am feeling expansive tonight so ask your question(s) about the Ncores and we will just let my thread take off on a tangent, since I am pretty much done with comparing the preamps in my system.

Before, we veer off on that tangent, the bottom line is that the VK-53SE is a significant improvement over the VK-52SE, especially in the area of dynamics and well worth the coin to upgrade. As much as I like the VK-42SE, I preferred the VK-52SE. I have not heard the VK-43SE and am unable to offer any comparison where that preamp stands in the hierarchy.

Although I have my VK-42SE up for sale, I am very seriously considering holding onto it and creating a secondary system with it for my boob tube. The VK-42SE is just that good.

[nc42acc]

Any chance of putting into perspective the difference I would get from a VK50SE which I have to the VK53SE?

[Swelfelo]

I have never owned or heard a VK-50SE or VK-51SE, but I can tell you that the VK-53SE bettered the VK-52SE in my own experience, and it is a fairly safe bet that the VK-52SE was an improvement over the VK-50SE. Therefore, I would expect the VK-53SE to be a substantial step up from the VK-50SE. The areas of improvement I heard between the VK-52SE and Vk-53SE were primarily in dynamics, then size of the sound stage, localization of instruments in that sound stage, detail or resolution, and bass and treble extension.

I do not believe that there is a direct upgrade path from the VK-50SE to VK-53SE.

[nc42acc]

Thank you for the reply. I do have a local dealer for BAT and I have already discussed with him the VK53SE if the ARC REF5SE doesn't work out.

[Swelfelo]

My pleasure, Marty.

I think that either of the preamps you mentioned represent advancements in the audio arts over the VK-50SE. However, I have always wondered whether ARC based its use of the 6H30 tube upon Victor Khomenko's discovery of this triode.

If you have a question concerning the Ncores, go ahead and ask it.

[tom_hankins]

I now have about 100 hours of dedicated listening time with the VK-53SE. In the meantime, several changes occurred in the rest of the system. I finished upgrading my interconnects so that the entire system is connected by Shunyata Anaconda Balanced Ztrons. Also, I rebuilt my Ncores NC400s with better cases, connections and grounding--I have ferrite chokes and HiFi Supreme Tuning fuses on the way. Some of my improvements in the other areas of the system seem to allow the preamp to shine more as the fundamental sonic character has not shifted.

My initial impressions of the preamp in the earlier postings above have not been altered much, except that there is more detail, better definition in the bass, more treble extension and the midrange is just liquid. The sound is quick and fluid, supremely musical and powerful when the material warrants, and intimate for softer pieces. When the preamp was burning in I would say that the cohesiveness was not all there altogether and there was spotlighting of the treble and bass. Now it is completely cohesive. The sound is just organically beautiful top to bottom.

Still using the VK-53se? Any more to add to the upgrade you did?
Thanks!

[Swelfelo]

I have not done anything else as this would be gilding the lily, so to speak.