BAT and Shunyata

[chessman]

My VK-600 SE has two power cords (it is a dual mono design) that are currently plugged straight in to the wall on separate outlets on the same 15 amp circuit. I would like to use a Shunyata Cyclops between the amp and the wall.

I figure that even wide open, each side of the amplifier never draws more than 5 amps (total 10 because it's dual mono), so can I get away with plugging both power cords into one Cyclops and then using only one power cord to the wall?

Victor, what do you think?

[Victor Khomenko]

Most likely you will subject the amp to severe current starvation. Each channel will WANT to draw much more than 5A at full power. Ideally you would not want to have any current limiting devices between the power line and your amp.

[BlueFox]

Post this in the Shunyata forum and let Caelin Gabriel answer it. I know the Triton is not current limiting, and I 'think' the Cyclops is the same.

[chessman]

Most likely you will subject the amp to severe current starvation. Each channel will WANT to draw much more than 5A at full power. Ideally you would not want to have any current limiting devices between the power line and your amp.

Thanks, Victor. Your answer begs the next question: is the VK-600 SE already getting starved by a mere 15 amp circuit?

[Victor Khomenko]

Thanks, Victor. Your answer begs the next question: is the VK-600 SE already getting starved by a mere 15 amp circuit?

That top level observation is true of any high-power amplifier. On the surface, your power is limited to 1800W, consumed, but in reality as we know, with music your peak-to-average-power ratio is quite high, so the main concern is not your sustained power - I can't imagine anyone being present in a room with several hundred watts continuously driving speakers... but rather the peaks.

Your typical household 15A line often can deliver peaks in the 100A range, covering all your instantaneous needs plus some.

[CGabriel]

Victor is quite right about the difference between continuous and peak current demand. And I fully agree that current limiting devices should not be inserted between a high current amp and the wall outlet.

As to the question about the Cyclops and its ability to deliver instantaneous current - how can I say this in simple terms? Ok, how about this for a non-technical explanation. The Cyclops limits instantaneous current delivery LESS than the standard power cord that came in the box with the amp.

cg

[Victor Khomenko]

Typically my advice on using any such devices is to try the system both ways, and go with what sounds best to you. Trying is always the best approach. One can never predict the outcome based on just the marketing information and specifications.

[BlueFox]

The Cyclops limits instantaneous current delivery LESS than the standard power cord that came in the box with the amp.

Would it be fair to say a Cyclops, along with a better power cord, would limit instantaneous current delivery "LESS than the standard power cord that came in the box with the amp."?

The benefit being better instantaneous current delivery, and cleaner power, than the stock power cord.

[CGabriel]

Would it be fair to say a Cyclops, along with a better power cord, would limit instantaneous current delivery "LESS than the standard power cord that came in the box with the amp."?

The benefit being better instantaneous current delivery, and cleaner power, than the stock power cord.

You may want to move the question to the Shunyata forum as a courtesy to the BAT forum.

Cg

[chessman]

You may want to move the question to the Shunyata forum as a courtesy to the BAT forum.

Cg

I think that is a good idea. :)

[BlueFox]

Since the thread was whether a BAT amp would suffer if using a Cyclops it seemed relevant, but I will gather up the background info and post it in the Shunyata forum.

[CGabriel]

Since the thread was whether a BAT amp would suffer if using a Cyclops it seemed relevant, but I will gather up the background info and post it in the Shunyata forum.

Yes, the original question was directed specifically to Victor about using the Cyclops with the BAT amplifier. Victor understandably doesn't want anything between the amplifier's power supply and the wall outlet that may in any manner restrict current or (I assuming now) cause power line ringing.

However, I am sure that Victor does not know how the Cyclops was designed and whether it restricts current or not. I do know, since I designed it.

Now the question has moved on to a question of how much a Cyclops does or doesn't restrict current. We can have that discussion on the Shunyata forum since it is not about Victor's opinion, my opinion or any BAT to Shunyata specific interaction.

It is easy to make a claim that a product doesn't "restrict current". That claim is made constantly by many manufacturers. However, technically, ALL devices including power line wire restrict current to some degree.

Now the only question is - how much and is it relevant to the operation of the equipment that it is attached to it.

cg

[Victor Khomenko]

That is all fair. My initial reaction was caused by the mention of particular currents - 10A for two channels, which to me implied some current limitation of Cyclops. Some conditioners have limitations on their outputs, so since I was not familiar with that particular product, I made that assumption.

Apparently the Cyclops is different, so I apologize for any confusion this might have caused.

It is still true that only listening test can answer the question whether a particular device might improve or constrict the sound, and even though I personally believe in direct connection, there are people who feel strongly otherwise.