Interesting Non-Scientific Comparo

[ChrisAZ]

Before Easter dinner last night, I asked my ex-wife, her significant other, and my 16 yr old son (we're all very civilized in order to do what's right for my son:yes:) to compare the apple based music server source in my signature and the turntable source in my signature. It was non-double blind, it was subjective, it was not scientific, blah, blah, blah. I told them that since I had both sources in my system I did not care about the outcome. They enjoy music but are definitely not audiophiles. We compared the same songs by the same artists. Without hesitation, the TT rig unanimously won every single time, and not by a small margin. And my digital apple based music server is no slouch. Even I was surprised by the result.

[jdandy]

ChrisAZ.......What was the Apple source, MP3, AIFF, Apple Lossless?

[mbovaird]

I'm not surprised in the least. I tried something similar with a group of friends (non-audiophile types, you know, the ones who say "you still have a record player?" and then giggle). I played them Diana Krall Live in Paris vinyl and digital and then the killer was Ella and Louis vinyl vs Digital.

Unanimously, the TT won. Then the questions started, "uhh....how much does a decent turntable cost?" "Who even makes turntables these days?" "Where do you even buy records?"

Music is inherently analog and therefore, converting it to digital, no matter how well it is done, will never sound as natural and musically pleasing to the ears as vinyl - IMO.

We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

Mike

[jwhite613]

I'm not surprised in the least. I tried something similar with a group of friends (non-audiophile types, you know, the ones who say "you still have a record player?" and then giggle). I played them Diana Krall Live in Paris vinyl and digital and then the killer was Ella and Louis vinyl vs Digital.

Unanimously, the TT won. Then the questions started, "uhh....how much does a decent turntable cost?" "Who even makes turntables these days?" "Where do you even buy records?"

Music is inherently analog and therefore, converting it to digital, no matter how well it is done, will never sound as natural and musically pleasing to the ears as vinyl - IMO.

We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

Mike

Mike... Well Said!!! :thumbsup: :yes:

[ChrisAZ]

ChrisAZ.......What was the Apple source, MP3, AIFF, Apple Lossless?

AIFF of Redbook, run though Amarra in cached mode. Although I have high def downloads, I didnt have same on LP to compare.

Mike said: "Music is inherently analog and therefore, converting it to digital, no matter how well it is done, will never sound as natural and musically pleasing to the ears as vinyl - IMO. We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

Couldn't agree more.

[mbovaird]

Mike... Well Said!!! :thumbsup: :yes:

Thanks Jeff. You have a very nice Vinyl rig I see! Great TT and great Cart! I had that cartridge and loved it.

[antipop]

Unanimously, the TT won. Then the questions started, "uhh....how much does a decent turntable cost?" "Who even makes turntables these days?" "Where do you even buy records?"


To get a decent sound from vinyl, you have to invest in it and I'm not only talking about money. It's not for the faint of heart but the result are worth all the trouble.

I had the same reaction but now they all want me to play the vinyl.

ps: to me, I'm much more impressed by the technology behind the vinyl than the CD. I'm completely fascinated by how a "scratch on some plastic" can sound so good and with such definition.

[jwhite613]

Thanks Jeff. You have a very nice Vinyl rig I see! Great TT and great Cart! I had that cartridge and loved it.

Mike... Thanks!

[mbovaird]

To get a decent sound from vinyl, you have to invest in it and I'm not only talking about money. It's not for the faint of heart but the result are worth all the trouble.

I had the same reaction but now they all want me to play the vinyl.

ps: to me, I'm much more impressed by the technology behind the vinyl than the CD. I'm completely fascinated by how a "scratch on some plastic" can sound so good and with such definition.

Yes, I completely agree, but if you learn, tinker, learn.... It can become so rewarding and part of the fun. The delicacy of the cart and arm can frighten a few folks - especially the all thumbs kind. But that being said, there are some very good "almost" plug and play turntables with easy setup that can get a lot of folks started. ClearAudio, Rega, etc. all have them.

I tell people to start with Fremer's DVD's and go from there.

Mike

[russellhorn]

We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

Very well said! :yes:

[MyPal]

AIFF of Redbook, run though Amarra in cached mode. Although I have high def downloads, I didnt have same on LP to compare.

Mike said: "Music is inherently analog and therefore, converting it to digital, no matter how well it is done, will never sound as natural and musically pleasing to the ears as vinyl - IMO. We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

Couldn't agree more.

Mike....I'm about to embark on my first serious attempt into digital with an enhanced CAPS of my own build. I hope the build will take the CAPS idea to the next level & not disappoint. I am giving it every chance with a quality component spend but will cost nowhere near an Aurender. It will marry the MCD1100 DAC via USB tethered with the Wireworld Platinum Starlight S7 which will soon be on its way.

Coming from an IT background, I have been quite critical & less than enthusiastic about digital & setting up a media server until now. The main reason for being such a late starter was my disgust towards the lossy rhetoric of the past decade. The arrogance of Apple was largely responsible for that & there lies the root of my biased against that cultural corporate fanaticism that has been so successful in marketing the shiny white until late last year. I write this with some hypocracy as I type from my iPad whilst my Microsoft Surface recharges.

Only for sake of convenience when it is impractical to play records despite most of my current collection being vinyl. The motivator being the positive responses from others who are into computer audiophile playback. Although I'm not expecting it to best a premium cartridge dragging on a virgin vinyl pressing, or even come close to R2R tape, I still have high hopes...even if it is just for convenience.

[ChrisAZ]

I continue to be surprised. I listen to a high res recording on my Mac based player or a SACD on my MCD500 and I'm really pleased, its so easy, so quiet, and so perfect for longer classical pieces. Then I play an LP, even of a recording from the 50s, and I'm blown away. From jazz to bluegrass, the blues to the Ramones. The warmth, the emotion, the dynamic range (ok, not so much warmth or dynamic range on the Ramones ; ) ). Its really rather remarkable.

[jdandy]

We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!"

It has not been my experience to hear anyone say "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." What I actually hear people say is, "This DAC sound as close to analog as I have ever heard." That's quiet a different statement when you consider that true analog is live music not vinyl or tape playback. Considering that fact, even vinyl in its adulterated state on the record is only a representation of the true analog performance, which also includes a minimum of two generations of magnetic tape recording ahead of the vinyl mastering. It's a long ways from live analog music to vinyl analog playback. Thankfully, DAC's don't sound like vinyl at all.

On the other side of the coin there are plenty of audio enthusiasts who will say, "This turntable and cartridge sounds almost as good as my DAC." Still, the only thing absolute about analog music is live music. Everything else is a reproduction, a facsimile, a copy, or any other way you want to say it. Either way you cut the cookie, if you want to hear real analog music, live is the best way to get it.

[MyPal]

I would challenge any DAC out there to better the Goldfinger. :burnin:

[jdandy]

Steve.......I am not trying to start the proverbial analog versus digital discussion. I was simply offering my opinion about the comment......We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!" I find it unfortunate that some people feel it necessary to belittle one idea in order to make their point appear to be the victor. Cute little catch phrases are not proof of anything. Digital versus analog is clearly a two way street with traffic flowing unimpeded in both directions.

I have no reason to slam vinyl or digital. I enjoy both formats. I own two turntables, two premium digital SACD/CD/DAC players and two music servers. I embrace all of it.

Oh, and I am positive your Clearaudio Goldfinger sounds spectacular. No argument there. The Goldfinger Statement rules the roost.


http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/CLRGFNGA.jpg

[MyPal]

Steve.......I am not trying to start the proverbial analog versus digital discussion. I was simply offering my opinion about the comment......We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!" I find it unfortunate that some people feel it necessary to belittle one idea in order to make their point appear to be the victor. Cute little catch phrases are not proof of anything. Digital versus analog is clearly a two way street with traffic flowing unimpeded in both directions.

I have no reason to slam vinyl or digital. I enjoy both formats. I own two turntables, two premium digital SACD/CD/DAC players and two music servers. I embrace all of it.

Oh, and I am positive your Clearaudio Goldfinger sounds spectacular. No argument there. The Goldfinger Statement rules the roost.



OK, I'll be fair but my point is that analog remains unchallenged with the right investment & that is the gist of this thread .... Soon I will seriously give digital a go with a hand built media server juicing the MCD1100 USB DAC input. No doubt it will be a great clean sound & prove to be much more convenient during the workday. It will have its place.

Around the same time I will be breaking in the upgraded Goldfinger Statement.

If I were to make an analogy as what both the GFS & the Studer A810MkII R2R offer over a DAC, it would be that the analog sound is 4 dimensional as opposed to 3... :D

[MyPal]

What I would really like to do is place something like the Ayre QA9 in between my system in the attempt to capture some of the essence that my analog rig offers.

Who has an Ayre QA9 ADC & can testify to its performance?

[antipop]

Steve.......I am not trying to start the proverbial analog versus digital discussion. I was simply offering my opinion about the comment......We always like to say, "this DAC sounds as close to vinyl as I have ever heard." No one says, "I wished my turntable sounded more like my digital!" I find it unfortunate that some people feel it necessary to belittle one idea in order to make their point appear to be the victor. Cute little catch phrases are not proof of anything. Digital versus analog is clearly a two way street with traffic flowing unimpeded in both directions.

I have no reason to slam vinyl or digital. I enjoy both formats. I own two turntables, two premium digital SACD/CD/DAC players and two music servers. I embrace all of it.

Oh, and I am positive your Clearaudio Goldfinger sounds spectacular. No argument there. The Goldfinger Statement rules the roost.


http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/CLRGFNGA.jpg
:tresbon:

Couldn't agree more ! I have both and I use both.

[MyPal]

:tresbon:

Couldn't agree more ! I have both and I use both.

Antipop....have you experimented with any ADC?

[antipop]

Steve, I never have. What do you use it for ?

[MyPal]

Steve, I never have. What do you use it for ?

The Analog to Digital Converter allows you to record/convert your analog source into 24/192 digital in conjunction with a computer. The better the analog source (vinyl, cartridge, phono stage, cable), the better the result. The Ayre QA-9 could prove especially useful for some of those exceptional vinyl remasters or rare pressings for which there is no digital equivalent.

You record with your loudspeakers muted to minimise the airborne pickup.

[antipop]

I get it. Sadly I don't own any of those exceptional remasters so I never had the need to convert them