Tube Cages

[Joe Appierto]

I tried something this morning with my Premier 140 that's made me curious.

Not for the first time, I noticed that both the 16LS2 and the 140 have the same basic sloping wedge shape up top. I wondered how the two would look if I put the tube cage on the 140, so they'd kinda match in appearance. Previously I'd never used a tube cage on either the 140 or the 11A.

After installing the cage, I thought it looked pretty good but it did seem to be running hotter, I guess from the reduced airflow. But the main thing was, the amplifier sounded different. In some ways, it was like the tube cage was a visual metaphor for the changes: it sounded a little bit muffled with the highs not as distinct and it wasn't quite as airy. Also, the sound stage was more shallow, although just as wide.

On the plus side, the bass was stronger and the midrange as well. Whenever there's an apparent lessening of the upper treble, I always wonder if there isn't some kind of psychoacoustic effect that makes the rest of the spectrum seem more prominent.

Anyway, my question is do most of you use the cage? And if you have tried it both ways, did you notice any changes in the sound?

[Rayooo]

ah, so you are referring to the overall chassis cage that covers all the tubes....?? for a minute I thought you meant individual tube cages..i.e. those mu-metal cages one would see from time to time, although seldom on power tubes.

I guess one would think that the overall cover would make little or no difference other than possibly a bit of "RF" shielding from the outside world. But as often happens in this nutty world, what one would "think" is often way off base in reality.

[Joe Appierto]

ah, so you are referring to the overall chassis cage that covers all the tubes....?? for a minute I thought you meant individual tube cages..i.e. those mu-metal cages one would see from time to time, although seldom on power tubes.

I guess one would think that the overall cover would make little or no difference other than possibly a bit of "RF" shielding from the outside world. But as often happens in this nutty world, what one would "think" is often way off base in reality.

The thread title is misleading, I'm sorry. I am referring to the overall cage that goes over the top of the amp.

Your point about RF shielding may be well taken. It's often seemed to me that tweaks such as ferrite clamps, while they do seem to help with noise, also suck out some of the air, too. Even experiments I've tried with piezoelectric crystals (okay, I'm donning my asbestos suit now :) ) have had mixed results.

[ronenash]

Joe,
I am using my LP125mSE with the cages removed but when I used them I don't recall hearing any difference in sound.

[Joe Appierto]

Joe,
I am using my LP125mSE with the cages removed but when I used them I don't recall hearing any difference in sound.

Could very well be my overactive imagination. :yes:

[Rayooo]

Could very well be my overactive imagination. :yes:

It's nice to hear someone admit that! I always think I'm the only one who can't always trust my own ears due to my own various human factors including of course my overactive imagination. :yes::yes::scratch2:

I was looking forward to seeing a pix of the amp with those dull dull oxidized looking mu-metal cans on each tube...now that would be something. :D :sigh:

[turntable]

Joe,

I have never used my prem 8a cages. Looks so much better naked. Does not surprise me you found them to sound better without.

That said the ART amps do look wonderful with their cages. Myles, you listening? Do the arts sound better with or without?

[CJ Premier3]

Joe

Everything matters, I have no doubts about Your results with the cages, and the better the system is You can hear the differences more easily :-)

I didnt try it with my MV60se in the past unfortunately...

[tdelahanty]

Wild Guess ??? if it's running hotter you may have changed the tube bias slightly.

[Joe Appierto]

Wild Guess ??? if it's running hotter you may have changed the tube bias slightly.

I didn't rebias the output tubes prior to putting the amp's tube cage on the unit and didn't get any red LEDs light, even intermittently. Although there are plenty of slots in the cage for air to circulate, the cage itself gets quite hot after a couple of hours and I'm assuming it acts a bit like a heat trap to some degree.

I might put it on again, and listen some more.

[MtnHam]

My experience with a pair of Wolcott P220 monoblocks is that they sound better with the cages removed. They certainly run cooler due to the unrestricted air flow. They auto bias every time they are switched on, so that should not be an issue. It is conceivable the cages resonate and transfer vibrations to the chassis, or that simply running cooler makes the difference.

[Joe Appierto]

My experience with a pair of Wolcott P220 monoblocks is that they sound better with the cages removed. They certainly run cooler due to the unrestricted air flow. They auto bias every time they are switched on, so that should not be an issue. It is conceivable the cages resonate and transfer vibrations to the chassis, or that simply running cooler makes the difference.

I put the cage back on this morning and I'm struggling with myself to not shut the system down and remove it. The differences I heard yesterday: not as clear, less air, etc. are all back. :icon_thumbsdown:

[turntable]

Joe, get rid of the cage.:yes::thumbsup::D

[Joe Appierto]

Shane,

I did shortly after my last post. It just plain sounds better without. :yes:

Aesthetics is one thing but bottom line, the sound is what counts.

[aldinohiend]

Do not think about it!
Much better without protection for the valves on both the Pr16 that on the Pr140.

[Joe Appierto]

I also think the Pr 16 sounds better sans cage but the dust accumulating between the tubes was always a problem when I kept it off.

[rthomeint]

The cage also could be damping the chassis and that could account for sonic differences. That is a substantial piece of metal resting on the top of the case.

[Joe Appierto]

Thanks, that's a good point I hadn't considered, Rob. In this case, at least for me, I prefer it with less damping.

Now I'm wondering again about the 16LS2. :scratch2:

Maybe I'll just deal with the dust.

[Rayooo]

Thanks, that's a good point I hadn't considered, Rob. In this case, at least for me, I prefer it with less damping.

Now I'm wondering again about the 16LS2. :scratch2:

Maybe I'll just deal with the dust.

Dust-Dust Dusssstt,... CJ tube amps look sooooooooooo cool cover-less. :yes:
it's worth a little dust to look so cool. :drool:

In the old days those covers would have found a place in my bottom desk drawer, upside down, used to hold 3.5" floppy disks. (hopefully I'm not the only one around here who remembers floppy disks) :sigh:

[joeinid]

Dust-Dust Dusssstt,... CJ tube amps look sooooooooooo cool cover-less. :yes:
it's worth a little dust to look so cool. :drool:

In the old days those covers would have found a place in my bottom desk drawer, upside down, used to hold 3.5" floppy disks. (hopefully I'm not the only one around here who remembers floppy disks) :sigh:

Still use them everyday :tears:

[Rayooo]

Still use them everyday :tears:

:D

[Joe Appierto]

Dust-Dust Dusssstt,... CJ tube amps look sooooooooooo cool cover-less. :yes:
it's worth a little dust to look so cool. :drool:

In the old days those covers would have found a place in my bottom desk drawer, upside down, used to hold 3.5" floppy disks. (hopefully I'm not the only one around here who remembers floppy disks) :sigh:

I don't mind the dust on the amps, it's easy to get at that. But on the Premier 16LS2, there's no room to get between the tubes if you leave the cover off. I may go cageless on that, too, since I like the sound better and just deal with it.

Not to pick nits, but I'm going to anyway :D, the 3.5" jobbies are diskettes and it was the original 5.25" ones that were the floppy disks. Shows you how old I am. :yes:

[Rayooo]

I don't mind the dust on the amps, it's easy to get at that. But on the Premier 16LS2, there's no room to get between the tubes if you leave the cover off. I may go cageless on that, too, since I like the sound better and just deal with it.

Not to pick nits, but I'm going to anyway :D, the 3.5" jobbies are diskettes and it was the original 5.25" ones that were the floppy disks. Shows you how old I am. :yes:

Oh yea, exactly right! I heard once there were even 8" floppy disks a long long long time ago. :D:D:D ....... OK, I admit it, I've used them as well. :tears:

[Coppy]

Dust or no dust, the tube cages on my LP140's with the KT120s installed don't fit anymore anyway. Besides, the bigger tubes fill the area so much better and look terrific. Maybe that's another reason the KT120s sound better.

Bob

[Joe Appierto]

Dust or no dust, the tube cages on my LP140's with the KT120s installed don't fit anymore anyway. Besides, the bigger tubes fill the area so much better and look terrific. Maybe that's another reason the KT120s sound better.

Bob

I think you may have something there, Bob. I know for sure that part of the appeal for me with the New Sensor Genalex Gold Lion KT88s is that they just plain look so good. To my ears they sound awfully nice, too. I just got another quad so I'll be able to try them in the 140. Right now, though, I have some Philips ECG 6550s in there and they sound darn good, as well.

The funny thing is, the more tubes I roll through the 140 now that it's been upgraded, the more I seem to appreciate the SED 6550Cs. I think I've underestimated them up till now.

[Coppy]

Joe,

I guess you know... if you like them better get a stock now, as they're increasing hard to find. I'm sure we've discussed this here someplace before, but many of us and the c-j folks like the KT120s very well. I think Lew J. called it the new super tube.

Bob

[rthomeint]

Oh yea, exactly right! I heard once there were even 8" floppy disks a long long long time ago. :D:D:D ....... OK, I admit it, I've used them as well. :tears:

I had a 8" floppy disks along with a 10" computer reel tape.