chryo vs non chryod tubes

[rlw3]

i have some chryoed tubes for my act 2.2 and my art vinyl refence phono. Sound seems ballsyer but i wonder if that detracts in some way because it is less subtle. What do you all think???

[joeinid]

I am a big believer in Cryo'd tubes. To me and my ears, they sound much better.

[GaryProtein]

I'm not well versed in tubes, what does cryogenic treatment do to tubes?

[joeinid]

Cryogenic treatment is a process where a product (VACUUM TUBES)is tempered in a deep freeze process(-300F) for 48 hrs. This process produces a permanent change in the metals inside this product making it stronger and longer lasting. Tools, instruments, knives, razor blades, machinery parts have been Cryo Treated for many years.Why do this to tubes?Tubes are mostly metal inside so Cryo treating tubes has the following benefits: permanent change in the metals at the molecular level(more uniform grain structure of metals), longer lasting, tightens internal parts of the tube allowing for more efficient operation. and superior conductivity!


LOWER NOISE FLOOR,lower distortion, extended frequency response at the extremes, greately increased resolution and transparency. You will hear information from the recording you barely, or never heard before, especially at the back of the stage! Bass response is greatly improved, treble is sweeter but more extended. Cryo treated tubes just sound much better and more effortless than a non-treated tube!!! THIS CATALOG SECTION
CONTAINS ALL THE ULTRA PREMIUM CRYO TREATED TUBES WE CURRENTLY HAVE, BOTH SMALL SIGNAL AND POWER.THIS IS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY TO TWEAK YOUR SYSTEM!!

[GaryProtein]

Thank you for the description.

So, the filaments, plates and grids are copper I assume[?], and the posts supporting the filaments, plates and grids are something else?

Do you know what the supporting structures inside the tube are made of?

What metal are the pins (plugs) on the end of the tube composed of? I have not been able to find that information on the internet.

I did find this video of construction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y

[joeinid]

I hope someone with more knowledge helps. All I know is in the amps I tried the cryo'd tubes, I was amazed at the difference. Night and day better for the cryo'd tubes.

[chessman]

I hope someone with more knowledge helps. All I know is in the amps I tried the cryo'd tubes, I was amazed at the difference. Night and day better for the cryo'd tubes.

I think it is going to come down to personal experiences, like whether cables matter (they do :)). The quote below is from VH Audio, a firm that does cryo treatment of audio components:

In the end, we are left with subjective evaluation.
From a subjective standpoint, common evaluations of cryoed vs. non-cryoed parts are:

Wider dynamic range
Smoother, more refined highs
Better bass articulation
More organic presentation
Deeper, more three dimensional soundstage

In our experience, the degree of difference vs non-cryoed parts is not the "earth shattering" or "night/day" difference that some companies' sales literature might suggest, but rather an incremental improvement more akin to an upgraded connector, cable or other "tweak". Also, in our experience, not all materials benefit from cryogenic treatment to the same degree. Brass seems to benefit more from cryogenic treatment than pure copper, and high purity silver may actually be DEGRADED by cryogenic treatment, based on our listening tests. Plated materials are also a mixed bag, with the resultant sound improvement varying by type of base metal, the plating material, AND the plating process used.

[jdandy]

Thank you for the description.

So, the filaments, plates and grids are copper I assume[?], and the posts supporting the filaments, plates and grids are something else?

Do you know what the supporting structures inside the tube are made of?

What metal are the pins (plugs) on the end of the tube composed of? I have not been able to find that information on the internet.




http://www.vacuumtubes.net/images/tworks_fig3[1].jpg


Gary......There are any number of specialized and exotic metals used inside tubes. For example, a tube cathode being manufactured today is typically tungsten and thorium composite, or an oxide coated cathode and filament made from a mixture of barium and strontium. The latter is typical of the smaller glass tube types.

Inside a vacuum tube you will also find graphite used in the anode. Gold wire, as well as tungsten and molybdenum are used for control grids on soft copper posts. The heaters are often aluminum oxide coated wire, and the getters used to remove any remaining gases are made of barium.

From what I have been able to locate, vacuum tube pins are usually plated brass or bronze.

For additional vacuum tube information take a look at this article by Eric Barbour: How Vacuum Tubes Work (http://www.vacuumtubes.net/How_Vacuum_Tubes_Work.htm)

[rlw3]

what a great response, thanks to all. So far answers suggest only positive improvements with no negatives- very rare for high end audio....

[jdandy]

Cryogenic treatment of glass vacuum tubes has me concerned about maintaining the integrity of the glass to pins seal that secures the tube's vacuum. Since the pins, the pin's plating and the glass each have individual contraction and expansion characteristics, I can't help but wonder if freezing and thawing a vacuum tube somehow reduces the integrity of this vital sealing point, ultimately impacting a tube's usable life span.

[joeinid]

Dan,

That is a great point. Although I believe by now, there would be many complaints about reduced tube life and you would probably not hear the end of it. People who are happy/satisfied aren't that vocal. People who feel short changed will speak up. I've read and experienced nothing but positive results on my limited testing on small power tubes (6BM8's).

[GaryProtein]

Thank you for the very interesting information of tube construction.

[Masterlu]

Then of course there is Cryonics...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics

[GaryProtein]

Then of course there is Cryonics...

Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics)

Yes, but by the time they figure out how to defrost somebody or reconnect their heads to a newer body, we will have missed so much that we would be a living anachronism.

It's best to take care of what we are and make the best of things now.

[vintage_tube]

Cryogenic treatment of glass vacuum tubes has me concerned about maintaining the integrity of the glass to pins seal that secures the tube's vacuum. Since the pins, the pin's plating and the glass each have individual contraction and expansion characteristics, I can't help but wonder if freezing and thawing a vacuum tube somehow reduces the integrity of this vital sealing point, ultimately impacting a tube's usable life span.

Agree w/Dan and am not, nor have been a Cryo convert & of my several hundred 12v tubes, not one has been cryo'd.:thumbsup:

Maybe a sales hype, dunno. If you hear an advantage with cryo'd tubes, well, then good for you; but, in my system inwhich I tried a friends cryo'd 12AX7's I couldn't. Maybe they thawed by the time I put them in the C500T.:D

YMMV.

Bob

[MyPal]

Agree w/Dan and am not, nor have been a Cryo convert & of my several hundred 12v tubes, not one has been cryo'd.:thumbsup:

Maybe a sales hype, dunno. If you hear an advantage with cryo'd tubes, well, then good for you; but, in my system inwhich I tried a friends cryo'd 12AX7's I couldn't. Maybe they thawed by the time I put them in the C500T.:D

YMMV.

Bob

I wouldn't take the risk with rare NOS but I may be prepared to give some Black Sable something's a go.

[vintage_tube]

I wouldn't take the risk with rare NOS but I may be prepared to give some Black Sable something's a go.

Throw them in the freezer for a week & save the money and buy music.:yes:

Bob