GAT review in Tone audio

[turntable]

cj GAT reviewed in this months Tone.

Typical of Jeff's reviews thou, he has two other great pre amps on hand, namely the Burmester 011 and ARC ref5se and fails to mention them or do any sort of comparison of the sound qualities of each.

All ends up sounding like an advertorial.

realy pity IMO as Jeff has access to some great gear, yet consistantly does not compare the sound anywhere near anough in print so his mag appears light weight to my reading.

Am I being too harsh?

[joeinid]

I absolutely love my GAT preamp. A more comprehensive comparo would help those who have not experienced one, but the GAT is amazing.

[Lunchy]

Good point, I'd really like to hear a comparison between the GAT and the Ref5SE. :(

[bradleyc]

I absolutely love my GAT preamp. A more comprehensive comparo would help those who have not experienced one, but the GAT is amazing.

Joe......please feel free to take up where Jeff left off :D

[joeinid]

Joe......please feel free to take up where Jeff left off :D

If I could only put into words what I hear, I'd love to pen my opinions.

[turntable]

If I could only put into words what I hear, I'd love to pen my opinions.

Well, write away Joe :thumbsup:

[joeinid]

The GAT is the best preamp, ever. The end.

[Jerome W]

The GAT is the best preamp, ever. The end.

Hum.....Joe, don't say that. Let me remember you that you have a german little thing on sale here.....:D

[Jerome W]

cj GAT reviewed in this months Tone.

Typical of Jeff's reviews thou, he has two other great pre amps on hand, namely the Burmester 011 and ARC ref5se and fails to mention them or do any sort of comparison of the sound qualities of each.

All ends up sounding like an advertorial.

realy pity IMO as Jeff has access to some great gear, yet consistantly does not compare the sound anywhere near anough in print so his mag appears light weight to my reading.

Am I being too harsh?

It is I think a very difficult task for an audio reviewer to make direct comparisons.
Synergy must be taken into account. A Gat could be better than a REF5SE on CJ amps, and the opposite would be true with ARC amps. So How to compare finally ? The only way to do it is to compare complete systems : preamp / power amp should then be viewed as a single unit.
Comapring a C1000P to a REF5 to a GAT to a Shindo Masseto or Vosne Romanee just makes no sense actually.
But a C1000 / 2301's could be compared to a GAT / LP270 to a REF5 SE / REF250. This would make sense.

[joeinid]

Hum.....Joe, don't say that. Let me remember you that you have a german little thing on sale here.....:D

I have to be honest :) the best tube preamp and the best solid state preamp.

[turntable]

It is I think a very difficult task for an audio reviewer to make direct comparisons.
Synergy must be taken into account. A Gat could be better than a REF5SE on CJ amps, and the opposite would be true with ARC amps. So How to compare finally ? The only way to do it is to compare complete systems : preamp / power amp should then be viewed as a single unit.
Comapring a C1000P to a REF5 to a GAT to a Shindo Masseto or Vosne Romanee just makes no sense actually.
But a C1000 / 2301's could be compared to a GAT / LP270 to a REF5 SE / REF250. This would make sense.

That is their job you know, so should not be difficult un context.
I don't disagree entirely and like anything a grain of salt is needed.

Comparing a ref5se and Gat is very worthwhile imo.

However you have a responsibility as a reviewer to compare to what you have as your reference and what you have at your disposal that is at the same level . Almost all other good reviewers do this, but not tone audio.

Arc and cj pre amps are known to be quite universal in their use outside of their own amps. Shindo are not, however a good reviewer like Art Dudley does compare his Shindo gear outside of their matching amps.

[lotus340r]

It's all about the system IMO.

[joeinid]

It's all about the system IMO.

Very true. There's no one best, everything in context.

[lotus340r]

Nice interview with Herbie .... never knew he was a F355 owner.

[Jerome W]

That is their job you know, so should not be difficult un context.
I don't disagree entirely and like anything a grain of salt is needed.

Comparing a ref5se and Gat is very worthwhile imo.

However you have a responsibility as a reviewer to compare to what you have as your reference and what you have at your disposal that is at the same level . Almost all other good reviewers do this, but not tone audio.

Arc and cj pre amps are known to be quite universal in their use outside of their own amps. Shindo are not, however a good reviewer like Art Dudley does compare his Shindo gear outside of their matching amps.

Shane,
I hear you.
And I agree on the fact that Jeff does not make a lot of comparisons, if not any.
But it does not prevent me from having a rather precise idea of how a given component sounds.
Product reviewing is a tough job for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

[cmalak]

Comparing a ref5se and Gat is very worthwhile imo.

Shane...the more appropriate comparo would be the GAT to the Ref Anniv preamp to compare apples-to-apples but I hear you, a comparison to equipment he had on hand would be instructive.

[turntable]

Shane...the more appropriate comparo would be the GAT to the Ref Anniv preamp to compare apples-to-apples but I hear you, a comparison to equipment he had on hand would be instructive.

Cyril, A reviewer can only compare what he has one hand. Don't believe Jeff has an anniversary so no desire to know. His Burmester is a lot more expensive than all his other pre amps on hand - sound at above the 10k level will generally all be extremely good.
This is not to try and find what is best, as it does not exist.

The reviewer should elaborate the differences in sound that each component brings in the context of his system. Fremer does this consistently when he reviews products - that is what IMO makes him one of the best reviewers out there, regardless if you like his taste in sonics, music or equipment. He always has an opinion of what are the pros and cons of any piece he reviews and relates that to price. This is done in a consistent objective manner to a clearly subjective subject - sound quality.

[cmalak]

Cyril, A reviewer can only compare what he has one hand. Don't believe Jeff has an anniversary so no desire to know. His Burmester is a lot more expensive than all his other pre amps on hand - sound at above the 10k level will generally all be extremely good.
This is not to try and find what is best, as it does not exist.

The reviewer should elaborate the differences in sound that each component brings in the context of his system. Fremer does this consistently when he reviews products - that is what IMO makes him one of the best reviewers out there, regardless if you like his taste in sonics, music or equipment. He always has an opinion of what are the pros and cons of any piece he reviews and relates that to price. This is done in a consistent objective manner to a clearly subjective subject - sound quality.

Shane...I agree :thumbsup:

[Jerome W]

Cyril, A reviewer can only compare what he has one hand. Don't believe Jeff has an anniversary so no desire to know. His Burmester is a lot more expensive than all his other pre amps on hand - sound at above the 10k level will generally all be extremely good.
This is not to try and find what is best, as it does not exist.

The reviewer should elaborate the differences in sound that each component brings in the context of his system. Fremer does this consistently when he reviews products - that is what IMO makes him one of the best reviewers out there, regardless if you like his taste in sonics, music or equipment. He always has an opinion of what are the pros and cons of any piece he reviews and relates that to price. This is done in a consistent objective manner to a clearly subjective subject - sound quality.

Agreed too here.
I know that Jeff is reading this, so he will probably think about it.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[doggiehowser]

I have actually heard the GAT against the Reference 5SE with two power amps (one Jadis SE only and one W4S supporting XLR and SE). Source was an XDS1 capable of SE and XLR.

I think if you use single ended gear, the GAT is nigh unbeatable. The Reference 5 lacked energy and soundstage in SE mode.

With a 5SE full XLR setup vs the GAT to the W4S in SE mode, the ARC was able to claw back some points. Much closer. But if we had to choose, the GAT was still the winner. Bear in mind the 5SE was only about 230 hours or so. That said I have run in the ARC more since then and I am not sure it would match the GAT.

For me, I use a pair of Nemos and they also don't sound great in SE mode so it was a simple choice for me.

[turntable]

I have actually heard the GAT against the Reference 5SE with two power amps (one Jadis SE only and one W4S supporting XLR and SE). Source was an XDS1 capable of SE and XLR.

I think if you use single ended gear, the GAT is nigh unbeatable. The Reference 5 lacked energy and soundstage in SE mode.

With a 5SE full XLR setup vs the GAT to the W4S in SE mode, the ARC was able to claw back some points. Much closer. But if we had to choose, the GAT was still the winner. Bear in mind the 5SE was only about 230 hours or so. That said I have run in the ARC more since then and I am not sure it would match the GAT.

For me, I use a pair of Nemos and they also don't sound great in SE mode so it was a simple choice for me.

Nice feedback Doggie. How many hours on the GAT?

I have always liked the Nemos, however it was more the high gain that stopped me trying to have a listen, as the GAT is also high gain - too much gain.

That the ARC ref5se intergrates so well with the nemo is no surprise.:smoking:

I wonder how a big set of Krell's would sound with the GAT? M Colloms has always loved using cj pre's with Krell amps.

[doggiehowser]

The GAT belonged to my friend and he's had it for over a year. The dealer was good enough to let him have a home demo long enough to run it in, before making up his mind.

He was also contemplating the matching CJ power amp.

In the end, he's swapped the Jadis and GAT out for a matching set of ASI pre and power (currently stereo but he's probably getting the mono next) manufactured by Karan.

[turntable]

The GAT belonged to my friend and he's had it for over a year. The dealer was good enough to let him have a home demo long enough to run it in, before making up his mind.

He was also contemplating the matching CJ power amp.

In the end, he's swapped the Jadis and GAT out for a matching set of ASI pre and power (currently stereo but he's probably getting the mono next) manufactured by Karan.

Interesting the ASI amps. Expensive.

really nice photos in 6moons. They remind me of the class and clean lines of Boulder ruined by the crassness of Modwright with that pig ugly large logo. ASI need to get rid of that logo or make it a lot smaller and discrete.

Who sells those in Australia?

[Rafale]

My retailer cannot stop praising the association GAT and Karan monoblocks

[Jerome W]

My retailer cannot stop praising the association GAT and Karan monoblocks

Karan is very popular in UK.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[turntable]

My retailer cannot stop praising the association GAT and Karan monoblocks

There is a audiophile in HK who has some very high end gear. Last time we communicated he liked the cj ART2 with Karan Acoustics KA 1200, so high praise indeed for Karan.

He had just received the Shindo Vosne Romanee and preferred the ART2, so was asking me about the ART3 so he couildupgrade. He has a LOT of great turntables.

I am sure Howie would know him in HK.

cheeers

[Rafale]

saw pics of an HK system with several turntables, GAT, Karan Monoblocs and big Focal speakers, it is maybe him ?

[turntable]

saw pics of an HK system with several turntables, GAT, Karan Monoblocs and big Focal speakers, it is maybe him ?

Could well be Philippe as it was 18 months ago we last communicated.

[Rafale]

Could well be Philippe as it was 18 months ago we last communicated.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3627/p11309481.jpg
copyright Peter Swain

in fact not in HK but Singapore

[Jerome W]

There is a audiophile in HK who has some very high end gear. Last time we communicated he liked the cj ART2 with Karan Acoustics KA 1200, so high praise indeed for Karan.

He had just received the Shindo Vosne Romanee and preferred the ART2, so was asking me about the ART3 so he couildupgrade. He has a LOT of great turntables.

I am sure Howie would know him in HK.

cheeers

Very interesting.
PM sent !

[Myles B. Astor]

That is their job you know, so should not be difficult un context.
I don't disagree entirely and like anything a grain of salt is needed.

Comparing a ref5se and Gat is very worthwhile imo.

However you have a responsibility as a reviewer to compare to what you have as your reference and what you have at your disposal that is at the same level . Almost all other good reviewers do this, but not tone audio.

Arc and cj pre amps are known to be quite universal in their use outside of their own amps. Shindo are not, however a good reviewer like Art Dudley does compare his Shindo gear outside of their matching amps.

There is that issue of SE vs balanced too

[doggiehowser]

Interesting the ASI amps. Expensive.

really nice photos in 6moons. They remind me of the class and clean lines of Boulder ruined by the crassness of Modwright with that pig ugly large logo. ASI need to get rid of that logo or make it a lot smaller and discrete.

Who sells those in Australia?

My friends are in Singapore. It's really expensive to experiment with hifi in Australia. Even with the A$ higher than parity with the US$, we invariably pay more for the gear.

Only a few vendors have moral scruples and will do a direct conversion based on the prevailing exchange rate at the time you place an order (Pure Music Group is one of them and I got my Playback MPS5 from them).

But nothing like the good deals we get with the dealer for EMM/ARC in Singapore.

[Puma Cat]

Back on topic, here. Jeff told me once that Tone Audio's editorial mission was not to do shootouts or comparison reviews. It's mission is to inform it's readers of new and some classic vintage products, provide insight into how those products perform and are designed, and inform it's readers sufficiently for them to decide if they want to investigate further and look into or explore those products on their own. With that in mind, you'd never see editorial Class A, Class B, Class C type rankings in Tone Audio like Stereophile or TAS does.

[turntable]

My friends are in Singapore. It's really expensive to experiment with hifi in Australia. Even with the A$ higher than parity with the US$, we invariably pay more for the gear.

Only a few vendors have moral scruples and will do a direct conversion based on the prevailing exchange rate at the time you place an order (Pure Music Group is one of them and I got my Playback MPS5 from them).

But nothing like the good deals we get with the dealer for EMM/ARC in Singapore.

I get you on that 100%. Pure Music is great, I bought my Lyra Atlas from Warwick at a very good price.

[turntable]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3627/p11309481.jpg
copyright Peter Swain

in fact not in HK but Singapore

Phillippe, 100% correct you are. I just checked my email and Singapore it is DOH!!

Is that a recent photo? No more Shindo or cj ART anymore.

cheers

[turntable]

Back on topic, here. Jeff told me once that Tone Audio's editorial mission was not to do shootouts or comparison reviews. It's mission is to inform it's readers of new and some classic vintage products, provide insight into how those products perform and are designed, and inform it's readers sufficiently for them to decide if they want to investigate further and look into or explore those products on their own. With that in mind, you'd never see editorial Class A, Class B, Class C type rankings in Tone Audio like Stereophile or TAS does.

That is interesting Stephen. Tone is almost like an advertorial than a serious review mag. Nothing wrong with that I guess :D

Seems like they do have some ranking of equipment thou in Issue 41

TOP TONE: Our Favorites for 2011
By The TONE Staff


Power Amplifiers


Preamplifiers


Integrated Amplifiers


Superspeakers

Small Speakers

Speakers

Subwoofers

Analog – Cartridges

Analog – Turntables

Analog – Phono Preamps

Digital

Accessories

[Rafale]

Phillippe, 100% correct you are. I just checked my email and Singapore it is DOH!!

Is that a recent photo? No more Shindo or cj ART anymore.

cheers

no more ART but GAT:yes:
Shane, the photo is of April, 2012, it was taken by Peter Swain the English retailer who installed the LP12 which you see on the photo

[lotus340r]

no more ART but GAT:yes:
Shane, the photo is of April, 2012, it was taken by Peter Swain the English retailer who installed the LP12 which you see on the photo

nice allnic !