Trying to use MOFI super deep cleaner

[walakalulu]

:no:
This is a bugger. Spread it over the disc say the instructions. How!!
As it contains no wetting agent it pools so spreading is impossible. Am I supposed to drag it around the record with the brush then vacuum up the pool left behind.
Also, as the Loricraft RCM has a fast rotation, the liquid flies off anyway, mainly over the machine surface. Would sure appreciate some advice here.!

[Myles B. Astor]

You really don't want a surfactant in the fluid. Near impossible to get off and affects the sound. Just brush the record/clean the record and then vacuum. The MOFI brush does as nice job.

[Puma Cat]

:no:
This is a bugger. Spread it over the disc say the instructions. How!!
As it contains no wetting agent it pools so spreading is impossible. Am I supposed to drag it around the record with the brush then vacuum up the pool left behind.
Also, as the Loricraft RCM has a fast rotation, the liquid flies off anyway, mainly over the machine surface. Would sure appreciate some advice here.!

I don't like the MoFi solution...I don't think it cleans very well.

I like the AIVS solutions...they wet the record and spread very evenly and do a great job of cleaning. I always follow with a distilled water rinse. I have to respectfully disagree with Myles on this one, the point of the vacuum is to remove all traces of solvent (including dissolved surfactants), if there is no fluid left, there is no surfactant left, either. Follow this with two DI water rinses and a vacuum and there will nothing left to contaminate the record.

[Myles B. Astor]

I don't like the MoFi solution...I don't think it cleans very well.

I like the AIVS solutions...they wet the record and spread very evenly and do a great job of cleaning. I always follow with a distilled water rinse. I have to respectfully disagree with Myles on this one, the point of the vacuum is to remove all traces of solvent (including dissolved surfactants), if there is no fluid left, there is no surfactant left, either. Follow this with two DI water rinses and a vacuum and there will nothing left to contaminate the record.

You're a biologist/chemist :) You know how many rinses it can take to complete remove a surfactant from the test tube so you can do an analysis on the cells :) And the differences I think between fluids is not how well they clean but how much is left behind after the cleaning. Indeed in my original RCF survey many years ago, there was even one record cleaning fluid that I thought degraded the sound.

That aside, what limits the fluid removal is the vacuum and physics. As the volume of fluid left on the LP goes down, the surface tension goes up, making it harder and harder to remove the last vestiges of the fluid. That's why in large part records cleaned with a machine such as VPI's Typhoon with its more powerful motor and vacuum sounds better than records cleaned on other VPI machines and by a substantial margin.

I had used the older MOFI fluid developed by Paul Weitzel and marketed under several years (for instance Record Research Lab or RRL) under different names and distributors. It doesn't seem to spread and get in the grooves but it does. It has very little surfactant and blew away all the older fluids like that from VPI, NG, etc. You can really hear how the older fluids roll off the upper octaves and affect transparency. It wasn't until the MOFI/RRL fluid that one could really see back to the rear wall of the stage.

But the newer fluids that are enzyme based are a different breed though they can take quite a bit longer to carry out the cleaning process. AVIS is indeed very good and one of my favorites but have a few other around that are listening to such as the new Keith Monks, Jeff's AVS and some others. If you use AVIS, try the #15 and just a water rinse. Will be pretty much the same as the multi-step cleaning process.

It is interesting historically that the original Discwasher fluid developed by Bruce Maier what 30 years ago (?) was really an enzyme based, bug (bacterial) wall removal agent :)

Now I'm trying not to be too obsessive and stir up a debate on whether to use brushes or pads like the MOFI record brush to clean the grooves :)

[walakalulu]

I emailed MOFI for their response but get the impression that they don't know what I'm talking about. 'Pooling' of the liquid seems a foreign concept to them, suggesting I'm using too much fluid, the wrong brush etc

[MyPal]

Myles...I'm a bit lost here... Considering MOFI cleaning products too. The gold label enzyme cleaner & rinse, if I can get it locally!

Carbon Fibre brush (Audioquest) or MOFI pad? :D

I'm in the market for a Clearaudio double matrix pro cleaner & want to create a compatible cleaning system / regime.

What is the go with such a cleaning machine? Clearaudio have a bulk ethanol based product.

The last time I used cleaners was in the discwasher days.

[Myles B. Astor]

As far as brushes, like the AVIS brush or the MOFI pad. I was dubious that the bristles got into the groove but since then have seen micrographs showing that indeed they do. But also wonder whether the pad that can contact the whole groove area is a better way to go?

As far as machines, how much do you want to spend? There you have a couple of different options.

I haven't used the Clearaudio fluid though I know Greg Beron at United Home Audio loves it. One day will get around to trying it.

[Whart]

You guys may have the qualifications to speak to the chemistry going on, I'm just a user.
I've had great luck using the Walker multiple fluids- one is an enzyme, the second a record cleaning fluid, and the third is purified water. He has added a fourth, which I haven't used. You can buy his applicator brushes -really more like pads- as well. They work fine.
On the machines, the VPI's seem pretty idiot-proof. I thought the Double Matrix was pretty appealing because of the whole dirty side down issue, but if you search A'Gon, you'll see a debate over how effective the cleaner is on the bottom side. (As a practical matter, how do you stop it from dripping all over the place on the underside?).
I'm pretty taken with two other machines: the Odyssey, which is an overbuilt version of the Keith Monks and very pricey, new and the Audio Desk.
The biggest issue I think I'd have with the Monks-type is just how slow it would be if you are using multiple fluids. No doubt those string type cleaners do a great job (the Loricraft is the same concept) but it would seem to take forever if you are using two, three, or four fluids.
The Audio Desk looks like the 'killer app'- a few people have raised issues about the early ones but a number of people who have the machine, and have had some of the others mentioned, swear by it. Probably the least labor intensive to use, but still requires some attention to maintenance.

[MyPal]

As far as brushes, like the AVIS brush or the MOFI pad. I was dubious that the bristles got into the groove but since then have seen micrographs showing that indeed they do. But also wonder whether the pad that can contact the whole groove area is a better way to go?

As far as machines, how much do you want to spend? There you have a couple of different options.

I haven't used the Clearaudio fluid though I know Greg Beron at United Home Audio loves it. One day will get around to trying it.

I do like the form of the Clearaudio double matrix pro (current model) & the Audio Desk if I can get the right price, so I am looking at the premium end.

I'm gravitating towards the Audio Desk. The Audio Desk ultrasonics agitation is cool & it looks like a cleaner solution, if not slower. This unit appears to be idiot proof & is a fully automated hands off & eyes off approach. Given this criterion, record cleaning become painless meaning you can actually get around to doing the chore after each play during the actual listening session. The just played LP goes straight into the record cleaner (which has been setup in the other room where your collection resides) & by the time your next 45 selection has finished play, the previously cleaned record is ready for sleeving & shelving. A perfect world that is very appealing, wouldn't you say? Also save on sleeve replacement due to non contamination!

[MyPal]

Made a choice....Audio Desk on the way. :D

[rscotth]

Made a choice....Audio Desk on the way. :D

Love mine. You'll be happy.

Scott

[Whart]

MyPal: Cool. There were some user tips by Mike Lavigne and a few others somewhere on the web- not overfilling, using less of the solution than indicated to prevent foaming, etc. It's a cool machine. The only thing you lost me on was the notion that you'll clean after you play the record? Otherwise, i agree, the idea of not having to be hands-on, dealing with fluids, brushes, flipping sides, and standing by the machine makes this the best invention since, i dunno, the 'washing machine'?

[MyPal]

MyPal: Cool. There were some user tips by Mike Lavigne and a few others somewhere on the web- not overfilling, using less of the solution than indicated to prevent foaming, etc. It's a cool machine. The only thing you lost me on was the notion that you'll clean after you play the record? Otherwise, i agree, the idea of not having to be hands-on, dealing with fluids, brushes, flipping sides, and standing by the machine makes this the best invention since, i dunno, the 'washing machine'?

Whart... I'll be washing everything new & archive before playing. The hands off approach also means an unsupervised wash can be performed after play. :)

[Whart]

Gotcha. Full report expected, once you are up and running. But, you'll be too busy listening, rather than cleaning! Good for you.