Magnepan McIntosh 5.2 System

[Ian]

My Magnepan 20.7's arrived today! I will assemble them tomorrow. I can't wait to try them :music:

They will become my front left and right speakers in a 5.2 surround system consisting of Magnepan CCR center speaker and 3.7 rear speakers. The 3.7's will arrive next week. The 20.7's and CCR are driven by 3 MC601's and the 3.7's by a MC452. A pair of Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers (not sure when they will arrive) round out the acoustic part of the system. A McIntosh MX151 processor controls the system.

[tsv_1]

My Magnepan 20.7's arrived today! I will assemble them tomorrow. I can't wait to try them :music:

They will become my front left and right speakers in a 5.2 surround system consisting of Magnepan CCR center speaker and 3.7 rear speakers. The 3.7's will arrive next week. The 20.7's and CCR are driven by 3 MC601's and the 3.7's by a MC452. A pair of Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers (not sure when they will arrive) round out the acoustic part of the system. A McIntosh MX151 processor controls the system.

Good gravy! What a fantastic system! You must be ultra-jazzed :thumbsup:

We will need photographic coverage... perhaps even youtube! Enjoy all the fun coming your way :music:

[mgard]

My Magnepan 20.7's arrived today! I will assemble them tomorrow. I can't wait to try them :music:

They will become my front left and right speakers in a 5.2 surround system consisting of Magnepan CCR center speaker and 3.7 rear speakers. The 3.7's will arrive next week. The 20.7's and CCR are driven by 3 MC601's and the 3.7's by a MC452. A pair of Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers (not sure when they will arrive) round out the acoustic part of the system. A McIntosh MX151 processor controls the system.

Ian, that is going to be one totally assume system. I can’t wait to read your impressions. :music:

~Mike

[tweet]

Ian - Huge congrats to you! Suggest you get in some exercise now - you'll be confined to the couch soon! :yes:

Terry

[Rayooo]

My Magnepan 20.7's arrived today! I will assemble them tomorrow. I can't wait to try them :music:

They will become my front left and right speakers in a 5.2 surround system consisting of Magnepan CCR center speaker and 3.7 rear speakers. The 3.7's will arrive next week. The 20.7's and CCR are driven by 3 MC601's and the 3.7's by a MC452. A pair of Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers (not sure when they will arrive) round out the acoustic part of the system. A McIntosh MX151 processor controls the system.

Fantastic system!! Congratulations! I'm still waiting on 20.7s and will be I suspect for another month or so minimum. 'anxiously awaiting your impressions.:yes:

[audiot servant]

My Magnepan 20.7's arrived today! I will assemble them tomorrow. I can't wait to try them :music:

They will become my front left and right speakers in a 5.2 surround system consisting of Magnepan CCR center speaker and 3.7 rear speakers. The 3.7's will arrive next week. The 20.7's and CCR are driven by 3 MC601's and the 3.7's by a MC452. A pair of Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers (not sure when they will arrive) round out the acoustic part of the system. A McIntosh MX151 processor controls the system.

Congrats Ian,

My 20.7s in cherry and black also arrived last night... the kindly speaker fairy (think Rock in the Tooth Fairy) turned up in his V8 SS ute and we lugged them up to the attic... (I think Bill who is the importer here and one of the best people I have dealt with in audio won't mind the reference... he is a genuine gem and a nice bloke to boot). Just one of the two 20.7 boxes is bigger and heavier than the single box that the 3.7s came in last year (the attic sound room is currently a building site...and excuse the OTT backlight).
http://www.audioaficionado.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17670&stc=1&d=1339298450
Worth all the pain though... even from cold they have just amaaaazing bass and presence. This is the speaker of a lifetime for me... everything about them is a big step up... bigger, sweeter, more liquid and they are only just starting.

The set-up took a little while, just running resistor on the tweeter and using the bridge on the mids for the moment, not running hot at all in mid or highs, no glare at all but will see how they settle in... also got to be real careful putting the connectors on the treble ribbons and then screwing them in... nearly snapped one off which would have been worse than sad... pre-drilling doesn't help as it just catches on the fabric so ended up hand screwing the forty tweeter screws till nice and tight, if there is any even just half a turn off tight you could hear a disturbing rattle from the panel when they are up and running... after that small scare it was sweet all the way. Hope you have good help in the set-up, made a huge difference.

Did a room analysis and Bill recommended the tweeters on the outside.. it just worked better with the 20.7s in this room... have a near field placement set-up till I finish the new room downstairs. Hope this helps in your install. You can see in the pic the room it's in temporarily isn't that wide but it is working brilliantly. The new room is going to be half again as wide and will have vaulted ceilings so should sound even sweeter.

Unfortunately the speaker fairy took my 3.7s when he left... part of the deal :-).Your system is going to be off the charts... really looking forward to seeing and hearing how it comes together. Can't tell you how happy those two new speakers are making me... we had a drink after the set-up and settled into some big sounding smokin hot jazz vocals... that's it for me and speakers for a long long long time ... they are everything I've ever wanted in sound.

Graham

[joeinid]

Ian,

Holy Cow! What a wonderful setup. Congratulations on the new speakers. That's going to sound awesome!

Please post photos ... I need to dream ;)

[Ian]

Good gravy! What a fantastic system! You must be ultra-jazzed :thumbsup:

We will need photographic coverage... perhaps even youtube! Enjoy all the fun coming your way :music:

Thanks tsv_1! I will be sure to provide photos and videos. :yes:

Best, Ian

[Ritmo]

Congratulations guys!

Mike

[Ian]

Congrats Ian,

My 20.7s in cherry and black also arrived last night... the kindly speaker fairy (think Rock in the Tooth Fairy) turned up in his V8 SS ute and we lugged them up to the attic... (I think Bill who is the importer here and one of the best people I have dealt with in audio won't mind the reference... he is a genuine gem and a nice bloke to boot). Just one of the two 20.7 boxes is bigger and heavier than the single box that the 3.7s came in last year (the attic sound room is currently a building site...and excuse the OTT backlight).
http://www.audioaficionado.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17670&stc=1&d=1339298450
Worth all the pain though... even from cold they have just amaaaazing bass and presence. This is the speaker of a lifetime for me... everything about them is a big step up... bigger, sweeter, more liquid and they are only just starting.

The set-up took a little while, just running resistor on the tweeter and using the bridge on the mids for the moment, not running hot at all in mid or highs, no glare at all but will see how they settle in... also got to be real careful putting the connectors on the treble ribbons and then screwing them in... nearly snapped one off which would have been worse than sad... pre-drilling doesn't help as it just catches on the fabric so ended up hand screwing the forty tweeter screws till nice and tight, if there is any even just half a turn off tight you could hear a disturbing rattle from the panel when they are up and running... after that small scare it was sweet all the way. Hope you have good help in the set-up, made a huge difference.

Did a room analysis and Bill recommended the tweeters on the outside.. it just worked better with the 20.7s in this room... have a near field placement set-up till I finish the new room downstairs. Hope this helps in your install. You can see in the pic the room it's in temporarily isn't that wide but it is working brilliantly. The new room is going to be half again as wide and will have vaulted ceilings so should sound even sweeter.

Unfortunately the speaker fairy took my 3.7s when he left... part of the deal :-).Your system is going to be off the charts... really looking forward to seeing and hearing how it comes together. Can't tell you how happy those two new speakers are making me... we had a drink after the set-up and settled into some big sounding smokin hot jazz vocals... that's it for me and speakers for a long long long time ... they are everything I've ever wanted in sound.

Graham

Thanks Graham!

I love the look of your 20.7's. We share the same aesthetics. Mine are dark cherry/black also. I just about busted my back getting the heavy McIntosh amps and 20.7 monsters in to my house. The Magnepan dealer had a pair of 3.7's that I listened to but of course no 20.7's. The thing you immediately notice is that these beauties are huge.

I appreciate the advice on the ribbon installation. I have replaced ribbons in much smaller ribbon speakers before (Ravens) and know just how delicate they are. I dont know what the 20.7 ribbon thickness is but my Raven ribbons are only 5 um thick (about 10 wavelengths of light!).

Best, Ian

[Ian]

Ian - Huge congrats to you! Suggest you get in some exercise now - you'll be confined to the couch soon! :yes:

Terry

Thanks Terry! I am already confined to a couch. I just about busted my back lifting all the McIntosh amps and Magnepan speakers into my house.

Best, Ian

[Ian]

Ian, that is going to be one totally assume system. I can’t wait to read your impressions. :music:

~Mike

Thanks Mike

As both the amps and speakers are new I will be breaking-in both at the same time. Not optimal I know, but it will be interesting to track the changes in both amps and speakers with on-time.

Best, Ian

[audiot servant]

Thanks Graham!

I love the look of your 20.7's. We share the same aesthetics. Mine are dark cherry/black also. I just about busted my back getting the heavy McIntosh amps and 20.7 monsters in to my house. The Magnepan dealer had a pair of 3.7's that I listened to but of course no 20.7's. The thing you immediately notice is that these beauties are huge.

I appreciate the advice on the ribbon installation. I have replaced ribbons in much smaller ribbon speakers before (Ravens) and know just how delicate they are. I dont know what the 20.7 ribbon thickness is but my Raven ribbons are only 5 um thick (about 10 wavelengths of light!).

Best, Ian

Ian - You carried them in on your own! Definitely a determined audiophile... man you are going to enjoy them, they are just brilliant. Both Bill and I sat there completely gobsmacked at how good they started right out of the gate... better than I ever imagined/hoped.

also cheers Mike (Ritmo).

[Ian]

Fantastic system!! Congratulations! I'm still waiting on 20.7s and will be I suspect for another month or so minimum. 'anxiously awaiting your impressions.:yes:

Thanks Rayooo!

I have been following your posts on your wait for the 20.7's and sharing your pain. I had become resigned to the possibility of a long wait but was surprised that my 20.7's arrived before my 3.7's. So I hope that a similar surprise awaits you. I will definitely be sharing my impressions as my speakers and amps are broken-in :yes:

Best, Ian

[klao]

It's a super-duper Maggie system, Ian. Thumbs up!

Big congrats to Graham too. :)

[Ian]

It's a super-duper Maggie system, Ian. Thumbs up!

Big congrats to Graham too. :)

Thanks Klao,

It sounds as though we are building similar speaker configurations in our respective 5.2 systems. I hope that the wait for your 20.7's will not be too long so that we can share experiences. :music:

Best, Ian

[Ian]

Ian,

Holy Cow! What a wonderful setup. Congratulations on the new speakers. That's going to sound awesome!

Please post photos ... I need to dream ;)

Many thanks Joe

I will definitely post photos when I get the system configured. :yes:

Best, Ian

[klao]

Thanks Klao,

It sounds as though we are building similar speaker configurations in our respective 5.2 systems. I hope that the wait for your 20.7's will not be too long so that we can share experiences. :music:

Best, Ian


Quite so, Ian, but I might go for just a used pair of 1.6, 1.7, or 3.6 for surrounds, depending on my wallet then. :D

Come July I'll have to decide whether to let my dealer do the breaking-in of the 20.7 for me while waiting for the new room/house to finish around the end of this year. :scratch2:

Anyway, enjoy!

[mgard]

Wow things are getting exciting in the Magnepan forum. Graham, I didn't know you had placed your order already. That is great that the 20.7's are such a quantum leap forward in sound. Keep us posted on the journey. :music:


Ian, I am with Graham. I can't believe you lugged those 601's in the house by yourself. Those are really heavy. It won't be long and you will be able to convalesce on the couch listening to your new audio system. It should be out of this world! :yes:

~Mike

PS, I agree on your finish choice of dark cherry and black grills. :D

[audiot servant]

It's a super-duper Maggie system, Ian. Thumbs up!

Big congrats to Graham too. :)

Cheers Klao, having read your posts all this year I reckon you get the vote for the most patient Magnepan fan on the planet shortly followed by Ray (Rayoo).
Once hooked what can you do... something Maggies do is just not found elsewhere no matter how good the other speakers are.

[audiot servant]

Wow things are getting exciting in the Magnepan forum. Graham, I didn't know you had placed your order already. That is great that the 20.7's are such a quantum leap forward in sound. Keep us posted on the journey. :music:


Ian, I am with Graham. I can't believe you lugged those 601's in the house by yourself. Those are really heavy. It won't be long and you will be able to convalesce on the couch listening to your new audio system. It should be out of this world! :yes:

~Mike

PS, I agree on your finish choice of dark cherry and black grills. :D

Many thanks Mike, yes, not actually sure how I got here either, kept a bit quiet in case the heavens realised how happy I was going to become and threw a spanner in the works.

The 3.7s are extraordinary, I would have held onto mine as well except a sacrifice did need to be made :tears:... they will always be a watershed moment for me in enjoying music.

But if the 3.7s are an amazing giant cinema set-up with eery lifelike musical pictures to fall into then the 20.7s are like floating in Imax... It's like being drunk when you haven't had a drink. They will be the heart of my system for a long long good time to come.

I am fascinated with where Ian is going with his system... what's that much bigger than Imax? wow, just unbelievably good... Ian is going to take a Maggie set-up to a different level again.

Graham

[Rayooo]

you guys are killing me, I need to call and start whining to the dealer here about where my 20.7s are!

[GaryProtein]

Graham, aside from your speakers, I love all the wood in your room. It looks great. Congratulations!

[Jerome W]

Graham, aside from your speakers, I love all the wood in your room. It looks great. Congratulations!

+1 !

Very nice room Graham. Those speakers are really impressive.

[audiot servant]

+1 !

Very nice room Graham. Those speakers are really impressive.

Ray - they must be rolling out now which is a bit of a positive sign.

Gary - thanks kindly, yes much wood is always good, the room is sounding warm and resonant... I open the ports at either end and I get the music is out in the garden as well.

and thanks Jerome - I quoted the outward signs of your considerable happiness for the WP8's when negotiating the upgrade at home, your happiness is a great argument for making big speaker decisions with confidence... my dealer also says thankyou... they sound pretty good as well...

cheers
Graham

[Jerome W]

and Jerome - I quoted the outward signs of your considerable happiness for the WP8's when negotiating the upgrade at home, your joy is a great argument for making some big decisions with confidence... my dealer says thankyou.

cheers
Graham

Graham,

I am honored. And very happy to know that we share the same JOY with our systems.
I always loved panels and had to stop listening to them because of a rearrangement in my home.
My Final are too tall for my main room and cannot fit elsewhere in the house.
Listening to very large full range panels is a very special experience.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[bzr]

Congrats Ian, thats a hell of a system you are putting together, your inner calm must be like a dead calm lake when you immerse into the sweetest spot. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[bzr]

Graham, congrats to you too with the new speakers. I bet the tooth fairy would go all right in a tutu too.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Ian]

Congrats Ian, thats a hell of a system you are putting together, your inner calm must be like a dead calm lake when you immerse into the sweetest spot. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks Kev

I am certainly looking forward to some serious music when it all comes together. :music:

I note that you and Graham are both from Down-Under! :thumbsup:
Are there many Aussies in AA? I have noted a few Kiwis also.

Best, Ian

[audiot servant]

Graham, congrats to you too with the new speakers. I bet the tooth fairy would go all right in a tutu too.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks Kev, if you ever get bored with your new electronics you are more than welcome to chuck them on the 20.7s :yes: I feel you're up there in the valley brewing up something a bit special at the moment.

Jerome - if you ever move then panels would make a wonderful counterpoint to your Wilsons - best of all worlds then with panels in one room and puppies in another :D If I could I would certainly pack them up and bring them across to Paris so you could have a listen.

Ian, I think we lost contact with the other two new 20.7 owners over here... they are probably still sitting stuck in front of their speakers with a shocked look on their faces... :D I can't wait to hear your thoughts when you first fire the Maggies up.

best wishes with it
Graham

[bzr]

Waiting waiting waiting, :naughty::naughty::naughty:

[Ian]

My McMaggie 5.2 system is starting to come together.

This photo shows the Magnepan 20.7 along side its smaller sibling the 3.7. This is of course the last time these speakers will be together as the 3.7's will get get banished to the rear of the room to serve as the rear speakers in the 5.2 system.

The 3.7 is 1.8 m (71") high and the 20.7 is somewhat taller at 2 m (79") and of course is wider and much thicker. However the big difference is in the mass (weight). Each 3.7 is 27 kg (60 lb) whereas each 20.7 is nearly 3 times heavier: 78 kg (172 lb). The large difference is largely due to the double magnet array configuration of the 20.7. More on these magnets and their effect on speaker sensitivity in a later post. :yes:

My next task is to setup the McIntosh amps. I should have a photo of speakers and amps later today. With any luck I will fire up the whole system later tomorrow for the first time. :thumbsup:

I am really looking forward to providing you guys with my first impressions. :music: Will probably start with a Brahms violin concerto to exercise the high frequencies and then subject the system to some Rammstein to give the system and my ears a thorough beating at low frequencies. :D

Best, Ian

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r588/Ian3141/Magnepan20p7vs3p7.jpg

[Rayooo]

Thanks very much Ian! I like the break-in music selection, yup, need to wake these new maggies up, that should do it!

[klao]

It' s nice you got the speakers all together now, Ian. Thanks for sharing and we hope you enjoy setting them up.

Apart from its demension, I never really looked at the weight spec. of the 20.7 or the earlier 20.1. Three times as heavy as the 3.7, wow!

[Ian]

Here is a photo of my McMaggie 5.2 surround system before the Magnepan 3.7's are moved to the rear of the room and before the 20.7's and Sub1's are positioned.

It is a little difficult to see at this resolution but there a some additional "mystery" items near the center of the photo. :scratch2:

I will reshoot the setup later today after I have moved the speakers closer to their initial positions and will provide some closeup shots to see if anyone can identify the "mystery" items. :yes::no:

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r588/Ian3141/MagnepanMcIntosh16June2012.jpg

[audiot servant]

Here is a photo of my McMaggie 5.2 surround system before the Magnepan 3.7's are moved to the rear of the room and before the 20.7's and Sub1's are positioned.

It is a little difficult to see at this resolution but there a some additional "mystery" items near the center of the photo. :scratch2:

I will reshoot the setup later today after I have moved the speakers closer to their initial positions and will provide some closeup shots to see if anyone can identify the "mystery" items. :yes::no:

Ian, maybe the real mystery is how you will ever be able to leave that room again... much shock and awe-some :yes::yes::yes:... beautiful set-up.

best wishes
Graham

[mgard]

Ian,

You room looks very nice with matching wood. I do have a soft spot for those big blue meters on your 601 amps. That is a great collection of music you have there too. :yes:

I can't wait to hear what you think. Did you ever happen to say what this system replaced?

~Mike

[Ian]

Graham thanks.

Mike thanks. In a fit of dissatisfaction with the audio part of my previous 5.1 theater system I gave it all away. In order to start from a clean slate (tabula rasa) I also gave away the Blu-ray player, Marantz amp, Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector, head phones, chairs, racks ... everything! :D

[mgard]

Hi Ian,

Any thing you can update us on with your new Maggies and MAC amps? Did you get your subs dialed in yet? Any certain music that now just blows you away? I would guess that is probably everyting. :D

~Mike

[Ian]

Mike

My McMaggie 5.2 system is starting to come together. Here is a slightly updated photo of the setup.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r588/Ian3141/MagnepanMcIntosh22June2012b.jpg

In this photo you can see the two front 20.7's and the CCR center speaker. The 3.7's are situated near the rear of the room (not visible here). As soon as the Magnepan 20.7's and 3.7's arrived I found that the stands had a distinct resonance. I modified the stands to attenuate (effectively eliminate) this resonance and machined up adjustable point floor contacts for them. The 20.7's and 3.7's now make point contact with the floor and can be adjusted to tilt by a significant amount. I will be experimenting with these tilt angles in the future.

The two Paradigm Sub1 subwoofers are currently in front of the 20.7's. I will be experimenting with various room locations for these Sub's as I get time.

As I mentioned previously the equipment "rack" is made from solid 50 mm thick maple and incorporates a number of vibration isolation features I machined up and built which I can describe later if there is any interest.

I had a problem which slowed me down getting my system up and running. I turned on the McIntosh "MX151" and the digital display showed MX150 ! I called up my local audio dealer and he, in turn, called McIntosh who said that they would ship a replacement unit. The replacement unit arrived, is now installed, and does now appear to be a MX151.

It was with considerable restraint that I held off firing up part of the system before all the elements were in place and wired up. I decided that I really wanted to hear the whole system and not just its parts. The last items to arrive were the Paradigm Sub1's.

I have not had a chance to do any speaker location, orientation and tilt adjustments yet and have not started to use the MX151 RoomPerfect adjustment algorithms. However I now have about 8 hours of listening on the system.

When I first turned the system on I decided to play Brahms Violin Concerto, a piece I have played repeatedly across the numerous sound systems I have owned in the past. The first thing that came to mind was something Graham mentioned when he first turned on his 20.7's. Graham said of his 20.7's they " are like floating in Imax... It's like being drunk when you haven't had a drink."

I felt the same way. Indeed the effect of the combination of the 5 Magnepan speakers (actually a total of 15 ribbons and quasi-ribbons) was so magical that I started to cry. I had never heard the Brahms Violin Concerto with such realism since I heard Yehudi Menuhin and accompanying orchestra playing Brahms live in a fine concert hall. It was as if a partially blind person was suddenly given full sight once more. A shroud of acoustic fog was lifted and with it my emotions got the better of me. And all this "straight out of the box" with a few aforementioned mods. It is hard to imagine that the system could get any better with "room equalization", speaker placement optimization and component "break-in".

I also listened to and watched my reference film: "5th Element". I love this movie for many reasons including the wide range of sounds employed. During the fight scenes in this movie my two Paradigm Sub1's gave me a low frequency experience I have not heard or felt in any of my previous theater systems. The Sub1 subwoofers together can produce just under 7,000 W of peak acoustic power. Because they employ a radial design, in which the speaker coils move radially inward and outward together, they react against each other rather than with the floor and so produce very little floor vibration.

As you will note from my Signature components I have the ability in my system to measure and track the vibrations caused by elements in the system. I built the laser interferometer listed for this purpose. In a future post I will quantify the ability of the Sub1's to cancel what for me were highly annoying room vibrations caused by previous subwoofers I have owned.

Unfortunately I have been traveling and will not get back to the system for about a week. When I return I will share further impressions and will continue tweaking the system. I also promise to do a better job on the photography. I had not appreciated just how difficult it can be to photograph dark cherry speakers and shelves along side bright McIntosh amp displays and even brighter screen.

Best, Ian

[mgard]

Ian,
I didn't know you were a mad scientist along with being an Audiophile! Thank you for taking the time to give a detailed report. I share your excitement and it put a smile on my face too. Nice picture of your room. Keep safe in your travels and when you are ready to share some more details, we are all eyes. :D

~Mike

[bzr]

Ian, Inva Mula does sound good even if she was computer enhanced on The Fifth Element. Thanks for the write up & look forward to your further writings of your system.

[audiot servant]

Ian - Just one pair of 20.7s can launch a resonant planar wave that just about dissolves the fabric of space and time... hmmm 15 ribbons and two subs... that room would be so energized from top to bottom you could just about hurt yourself or at least experience a bit of weight loss. I find the experience of music with the big Maggies is as physical (and not just in the bottom end of the range) as it is emotional... looking forward to hearing some more.

Graham

[Ian]

Mike
Mad scientist! I like the sound of that :thumbsup:

Kev
Was Inva's octave range enhanced or was she digitally modified visually?
I note from another thread that your new system is coming together. It looks terrific :thumbsup:

Graham
I am looking forward to measuring the planar output of the Maggie's.
In the process of putting the ribbon tweeter assemblies in to the Magnepan 20.7's I measured the magnetic field across the approximate 6 mm air gap in the magnetic circuit (where the ribbon is suspended). It varied between 0.1 and 0.15 T (Tesla). This is very low and explains the low sensitivity of the Magnepans. I was initially rather worried that even the McIntosh MC601's might not be up to the task of driving them. However I find that the power requirements rarely exceed 100 W even when playing really loud music. I suspect that it is the inverse roll-off in sound power level with distance typical of ribbon speakers (rather than the inverse square roll-off of cone speakers) in the near field (which the 20.7's certainly are in my room given their height) which is effectively compensating for the low sensitivity.

Any way, when I return next week from my trip, I will be sure to measure and post the roll-off function for both the 20.7's and 3.7's. :yes:

Best, Ian

[mgard]

Huhhhh, what did he say????:scratch2:

Does that mean it sounds good in Lyman's terms.....


~Mike

[Ian]

Mike
Yes, its all very good :music:

My comment to Graham had to do with planar speakers acting as a dipole in the near field.

Let me explain: For a ribbon speaker like a Maggie you are in the near field region when you are within about 5 to 6 times the height of the ribbon. So for a 2 m high 20.7 ribbon you are in the near field when you are within about 10 to 12 m (<40') of the speaker. As you move away from a regular cone based speaker the sound power "dies away" ("rolls-off") very rapidly (inverse square of distance). The beauty of Maggie's in the near field is that the sound power decreases much more slowly (inverse with distance) compared with a cone speaker. All of this assumes that you are in a room with no reflections (anechoic chamber) which is not true of most rooms.

So my point is that I thought it would be fun to measure the 20.7 and 3.7 roll-offs with distance to see in a "typical" room just how much more sound they produce at a certain distance when compared with regular cone speakers. :music:

Bottom line: Maggie's rock :thumbsup:

Best, Ian

[mgard]

Ahhhhhh, said the blind man to his deaf daughter as they stood facing each other back to back. Ian you must have an engineering back ground. Or maybe you are a phycis professor. Anyway it was very interesting reading about your tests. I'm glad you are here at AA. I think it's about time for Graham to give us another update on what his favorite tunes are sounding like. Rayooo's 20.7's should be showing up soon too. :music:

~Mike

[bzr]

Well, according to google Inva's voice was enhanced

[GaryProtein]

Mike
Yes, its all very good :music:

My comment to Graham had to do with planar speakers acting as a dipole in the near field.

Let me explain: For a ribbon speaker like a Maggie you are in the near field region when you are within about 5 to 6 times the height of the ribbon. So for a 2 m high 20.7 ribbon you are in the near field when you are within about 10 to 12 m (<40') of the speaker. As you move away from a regular cone based speaker the sound level "dies away" ("rolls-off") very rapidly (inverse square of distance). The beauty of Maggie's in the near field is that the sound level decreases much more slowly (inverse with distance) compared with a cone speaker. All of this assumes that you are in a room with no reflections (anechoic chamber) which is not true of most rooms.

So my point is that I thought it would be fun to measure the 20.7 and 3.7 roll-offs with distance to see in a "typical" room just how much more sound they produce at a certain distance when compared with regular cone speakers. :music:

Bottom line: Maggie's rock :thumbsup:

Best, Ian

To simplify what the Mad Scientist said:

With a line source (ribbon), the sound level decreases proportionately with the distance, whereas with a point source (cone) the sound level decreases proportionate to the square of the distance.

In still other words, with a line source/ribbon, the sound decreases by 3 dB as you double the distance, whereas with a point source/cone, the sound decreases by 6 dB as you double the distance.

Oh, yeah, and Maggies rock.

[Hornet77]

Holy Smokes! Running 2 Sub1, the bass response will be insane on that because they go down to a 7hz response, i hope your walls and and flooring are sound proof or that the windows are re-enforced. I'd love to hear that system. In our store we have a similar system hooked up like, we will use 3.7s hooked up to either the MC601 or MC1.2Kw just as stereo but we use full McIntosh equipment for power conditioner, pre amp (tube) and cd player (MCD301). Where are you from?:thumbsup:

[mgard]

Gary,

Thanks for breaking down that techie stuff. :D

So the bottom line is, when it reaches the ears, it is Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :music:

[Masterlu]

Hornet77... Welcome! :wave:

[Ian]

Hornet77 welcome at AA. :thumbsup:

Yes, the 2 Sub1's are rather awesome and nicely augment the Maggies. Glad to hear that you have a similar McIntosh Magnepan setup. :yes::music:
What is the highest power you have driven your 3.7's with ?

I have lived in a number of different countries. :D

Best, Ian

[mgard]

Welcome Hornett77. I didn't see your post before my last one. We have a great bunch members here. I think you will like it. :yes: Oh, and those MC601's do a really nice job with the 3.7's. But if you have a choice, go with the 1.2K's

~Mike

[tweet]

Hornet77 - Welcome at AA! :wave:

[gclpc]

I am also waiting for a pair of 20.7s, and in looking at the picture of the backplate, it appears that Magnepan have not gone with their normal speaker configuration, but with a plastic binding post. You didn't use any type of adapter, did you?

Greg

[Rayooo]

I am also waiting for a pair of 20.7s, and in looking at the picture of the backplate, it appears that Magnepan have not gone with their normal speaker configuration, but with a plastic binding post. You didn't use any type of adapter, did you?

Greg

Whoa, did Magnepan change the speaker connector panel on the 20.7s....:sigh:
not that it matters I guess...just that I've gotten used to those maggy connectors. :D

and yea.... i'm stilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll waiting for the 20.7s and it' driving me nuts. :dazed-7::dazed:

OBTW, the 3.7s continue to amaze me... Listening to Sara Jarosz - Song Up in Her Head. Not even that great of a recording, but it's just wonderful.

[Ian]

Whoa, did Magnepan change the speaker connector panel on the 20.7s....:sigh:
not that it matters I guess...just that I've gotten used to those maggy connectors. :D

and yea.... i'm stilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll waiting for the 20.7s and it' driving me nuts. :dazed-7::dazed:

OBTW, the 3.7s continue to amaze me... Listening to Sara Jarosz - Song Up in Her Head. Not even that great of a recording, but it's just wonderful.

Greg and Ray I am not sure what the older 20.1 connectors were but I can assure you that the 20.7's have high quality gold plated connectors. I use 10 gauge wire cables terminated by acoustically welded gold plated expanding banana connectors. They provide an entirely adequate connection which is both mechanically robust and of very low electrical resistance (I have measured it using the micro-ohm meter listed below).

[Rayooo]

I'd just "assumed" that the 20.1 and now 20.7 used the "standard" magnepan connector that I've seen on 1.6. 3.6, 3.7 and MMG for that matter.
Like this:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CWeN-PRtZDQ/T_4jhFa9EbI/AAAAAAAAIUA/sGj3KjhfIUo/w785-h511-k/RAY_3156.JPG

[Ian]

Ray the 20.7's use the same connectors as shown in your 3.7 image above but instead of nickel plated surfaces, gold plating is used (including the shorting "bars").

[audiot servant]

I am also waiting for a pair of 20.7s, and in looking at the picture of the backplate, it appears that Magnepan have not gone with their normal speaker configuration, but with a plastic binding post. You didn't use any type of adapter, did you?

Greg

Greg, I had to use some temporary spade to banana adaptors for couple of days till I could get the proper Magnepan connectors (see pic)...

http://www.audioaficionado.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18249&stc=1&d=1342068063

The plate is as Ian outlines and they give you a much nicer allen key now as well... but maybe to save all the extra mucking around I should swap over to some new Shunyata ZItron Anaconda speaker cables and matching jumpers already fitted with banana connectors... that would be much more sensible way to go and I could just go straight in then :yes: hmmm, doesn't sound quite as convincing when I actually try to say it out aloud though.

Hope you panels turn up soon, they are just mind-blowingly good.

Graham

[Rayooo]

Ray the 20.7's use the same connectors as shown in your 3.7 image above but instead of nickel plated surfaces, gold plating is used (including the shorting "bars").

Great, thanks!! wow, no more coat-hanger shorting bars!

[gclpc]

I have a complete Anaconda set up. I ordered a set of the Anacondas with bananas to spades. The actual wires are so stiff and heavy that the bananas snapped as soon as I put them in. They had to be sent back to Shunyata, where they were replaced with spades. I now use the adapters to enable a spade to be used.

Coincidentally, I ws speaking with Shunyata this morning about their jumpers. They are called a VTX11. They seem to be of a thinner guage than the Anacondas, and would probably work with bananas. I have inquired as to whether they would be available with Maggie pins. I will let you know as soon as I hear back from them.

Greg

[audiot servant]

Greg - in that case will be looking at the spades definitely, thanks for the tip on that and also on the jumpers, think you just saved me from a fair bit of a pitfall by the sounds, much appreciated.

Graham

[gclpc]

Graham:

We may be in Sydney next summer...(from Canada). An Aussie beer would be a good way to repay such a valuable tip!

[audiot servant]

Brilliant idea :thumbsup:

[gclpc]

Graham:
This is the response I received from Shunyata:

"...The Anaconda Sp cable is a 7awg and the VTX11 jumpers are 11awg.

Our perspective on jumpers and their relative AWG size in comparison to speaker cables is as follows:

Wire Gauge has very little impact over a short run of wire when it is only carrying the signal from one post set to another. Speaker cable gauge matters, but jumper gauge is much less critical because the integrity of the signal matters more when considering a few inches of jumper wire versus 4-8 feet of cables coming off of the amp. Customers have found and continue to find our jumpers to be superior to any other type out there. Jumpers are typically not made with heavy gauge wire because it ads inductance and can distort signal integrity through the jumper.

I also spoke to Chris Sanchez, the productions manager and we were able to locate some Maggy Pins and they are available to us. Chris did some research and is very confident that these will fit on the VTX 11 jumpers. So as far as the Maggy Pins go, yes, we can custom terminate the jumper cables with no change in the retail cost."

I have now ordered these jumpers for my 3.7s and the (hopefully-arriving-soon-because -I'm-tired-of-waiting) 20.7s...

Greg

[audiot servant]

Thanks for that Greg, the 20.7s benefitted by a big degree in terms of transparency over the stock bridge with the relatively inexpensive (about $55 delivered to Australia) Empirical Designs jumpers (which you can see in the earlier post above)... looking forward to hearing what the Shunyata jumpers can do.

[Ian]

Graham:
This is the response I received from Shunyata:

"...The Anaconda Sp cable is a 7awg and the VTX11 jumpers are 11awg.

Our perspective on jumpers and their relative AWG size in comparison to speaker cables is as follows:

Wire Gauge has very little impact over a short run of wire when it is only carrying the signal from one post set to another. Speaker cable gauge matters, but jumper gauge is much less critical because the integrity of the signal matters more when considering a few inches of jumper wire versus 4-8 feet of cables coming off of the amp. Customers have found and continue to find our jumpers to be superior to any other type out there. Jumpers are typically not made with heavy gauge wire because it ads inductance and can distort signal integrity through the jumper.

I also spoke to Chris Sanchez, the productions manager and we were able to locate some Maggy Pins and they are available to us. Chris did some research and is very confident that these will fit on the VTX 11 jumpers. So as far as the Maggy Pins go, yes, we can custom terminate the jumper cables with no change in the retail cost."

I have now ordered these jumpers for my 3.7s and the (hopefully-arriving-soon-because -I'm-tired-of-waiting) 20.7s...

Greg

Greg
Shunyata said "Jumpers are typically not made with heavy gauge wire because it ads [adds] inductance and can distort signal integrity through the jumper."
I do not understand how a larger cross sectional area conductor will somehow "distort" the electrons flowing through it. :no::scratch2:

[GaryProtein]

Greg
Shunyata said "Jumpers are typically not made with heavy gauge wire because it ads [adds] inductance and can distort signal integrity through the jumper."
I do not understand how a larger cross sectional area conductor will somehow "distort" the electrons flowing through it. :no::scratch2:

Me either. Besides a wider conductor will have less inductance than a thinner one.

While we're at it, just think of all the wire inside the speaker cabinet that you don't see, and god forbid, all the thin skinny wire in the coils and capacitors in that god awful passive crossover that wouldn't be needed if an active crossover was used. :D :D :D :D Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

[Ian]

Me either. Besides a wider conductor will have less inductance than a thinner one.

While we're at it, just think of all the wire inside the speaker cabinet that you don't see, and god forbid, all the thin skinny wire in the coils and capacitors in that god awful passive crossover that wouldn't be needed if an active crossover was used. :D :D :D :D Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

Gary you have made a number of comments in other threads about active vs passive crossovers. I completely agree with you about passive crossovers. In an ideal setup all 15 of my ribbons and quasi-ribbons would be independently driven by their own dedicated amplifiers. For purely digital sources I like the approach of using the digital equivalent to analog active crossovers especially now that very impressive 32-bit DACs are available. :D

[Ian]

I had 2 Dell workstation computers as part of my 5.2 surround media system.

The first computer served to provide Internet access, store and play music, video and movies as well as to function as the interface to, and control of, my McIntosh MX151 Processor.

The second workstation served to run my sound and vibration test and measurement system. This system is designed to allow me to measure the noise levels, frequency response functions and other characteristics of my amplifiers and speakers. It is also configured to measure mechanical vibrations (via accelerometers and a laser interferometer) produced by various components in my system as well as those incoming from external sources.

However the acoustic noise produced by these workstations was simply too high (>30 dB) and interferred with my enjoyment of music and movies and corrupted my audio measurements.

Acoustic noise from computers comes from many sources including magnetostriction of transformers, turbulence from various fans, disk drive actuators, thermally induced component strain, Lorentz force induced component movements, among others.

I have ordered a new computer, to replace my Dell workstations, which has a remarkably low measured sound output of less than 11 dB (<13dB max). I should have this new computer installed within the next week and I will report on its characteristics then.

With any luck I will be able to get back to enjoying music with really low noise levels even when my computer is on. :music:

[Rayooo]

I had 2 Dell workstation computers as part of my 5.2 surround media system.

The first computer served to provide Internet access, store and play music, video and movies as well as to function as the interface to, and control of, my McIntosh MX151 Processor.

The second workstation served to run my sound and vibration test and measurement system. This system is designed to allow me to measure the noise levels, frequency response functions and other characteristics of my amplifiers and speakers. It is also configured to measure mechanical vibrations (via accelerometers and a laser interferometer) produced by various components in my system as well as those incoming from external sources.

However the acoustic noise produced by these workstations was simply too high (>30 dB) and interferred with my enjoyment of music and movies and corrupted my audio measurements.

Acoustic noise from computers comes from many sources including magnetostriction of transformers, turbulence from various fans, disk drive actuators, thermaly induced component strain, Lorentz force induced component movements, amoung others.

I have ordered a new computer, to replace my Dell workstations, which has a remarkably low measured sound output of less than 11 dB (<13dB max). I should have this new computer installed within the next week and I will report on its characteristics then.

With any luck I will be able to get back to enjoying music with really low noise levels even when my computer is on. :music:

One of the issues I faced with my "pure digital music" experiment was exactly that, having any typical PC in my listening room, drove me nuts. Early on I tried a laptop, and yea, it had a small fan and spinning HD in it. "most" of the time inaudible..key word "most".

My latest generation player is completely fan-less. (i5 CPU Asus MB) it works fantastically..and it's dead-quiet. ......... and I'm stillllllllllllllllllllllll waiting on the 20.7s :tears:

[Ian]

One of the issues I faced with my "pure digital music" experiment was exactly that, having any typical PC in my listening room, drove me nuts. Early on I tried a laptop, and yea, it had a small fan and spinning HD in it. "most" of the time inaudible..key word "most".

My latest generation player is completely fan-less. (i5 CPU Asus MB) it works fantastically..and it's dead-quiet. ......... and I'm stillllllllllllllllllllllll waiting on the 20.7s :tears:

Ray hang in there, the 20.7's are well worth the wait :thumbsup:
Nice to hear that we have both had computer noise problems and have both now found low noise solutions. :yes:

[mgard]

I am using the Bryston BDP-1 to access and play my music. To make the selection, I use the iPad along with the MPad program. No noise at all that I can hear. Of course this setup can't do all the wild stuff Ian is doing. Ian are you also measuring how much effect your subwoofers have on the earths rotation when you fire them up? :D

~Mike

[Ian]

I am using the Bryston BDP-1 to access and play my music. To make the selection, I use the iPad along with the MPad program. No noise at all that I can hear. Of course this setup can't do all the wild stuff Ian is doing. Ian are you also measuring how much effect your subwoofers have on the earths rotation when you fire them up? :D

~Mike

Mike no I am not currently setup to measure the earths rotation but I certainly like the idea of subwoofer induced increases in earth wobble : perhaps we could introduce a new HiFi term which measures subwoofer induced earth wobble ... How about the woofer-wobble metric or Woffle (Wf). Like the Farad for capacitance where one often needs nanoFarads (nF) to characterize cable capacitance we would need nanoWoffle or nWf to characterize the effect of a wimpy subwoofer. A decent AA level subwoofer would be in the order of 1 mWf. If 1000 AA members could be convinced to synchronize their subwoofers then we might collectively achieve 1 Wf. :thumbsup:

[Rayooo]

Mike no I am not currently setup to measure the earths rotation but I certainly like the idea of subwoofer induced increases in earth wobble : perhaps we could introduce a new HiFi term which measures subwoofer induced earth wobble ... How about the woofer-wobble metric or Woffle (Wf). Like the Farad for capacitance where one often needs nanoFarads (nF) to characterize cable capacitance we would need nanoWoffle or nWf to characterize the effect of a wimpy subwoofer. A decent AA level subwoofer would be in the order of 1 mWf. If 1000 AA members could be convinced to synchronize their subwoofers then we might collectively achieve 1 Wf. :thumbsup:

there are a few people walking around who I'd like to induce a bit of subwoofer wobble into about now. :D just a nice wee bit of wobble to get their attention. :yes:

[Ian]

:roflmao:there are a few people walking around who I'd like to induce a bit of subwoofer wobble into about now. :D just a nice wee bit of wobble to get their attention. :yes:

:roflmao:

[audiot servant]

there are a few people walking around who I'd like to induce a bit of subwoofer wobble into about now. :D just a nice wee bit of wobble to get their attention. :yes:

Maybe Ian could discretely aim a few focussed woofer wobbles directly at the Maggie factory to get things moving along on that 20.7 production line :D:64714-slap:

[Rayooo]

Maybe Ian could discretely aim a few focussed woofer wobbles directly at the Maggie factory to get things moving along on that 20.7 production line :D:64714-slap:

I was thinking about that :D...but figured with my luck it'd probably slow them down even more! :sigh: :scratch2: :nail:

[bzr]

1 Wf ay, thats some big woffling. ;)

[Ian]

1 Wf ay, thats some big woffling. ;)

:laughin: