Tubes, false sense of security, Inkjet printer Ink and a spare 7DJ8 [Archive]

Rayooo

06-01-2012, 07:14 PM

I'd been lulled into a false sense of security....

'been months running the EAT 6922 in the ET5. pure heaven, listen for hour upon hour. hifi heaven or as close I can get before the 20.7s show up..but that's another story. :D

For the last few days, all of a sudden that sweet "mellowness" had all but vanished, and as bad or worse, any sibilance took on that character I remember well from owning dozens of low-fi stuff over the years.
I'm exaggerating, but RASPY is the best word I can come up with.

Oh crap, my hearing is going, power is bad, need to increase attenuation resistor on the 3.7s, ET5 is going bad, JC-1s are bad, 3.7s are failing, need new cables, or maybe I'm just imagining things, J-River is messing with bits, DAC-2 has lost it's mind, probably need a better USB cable. things will be better tomorrow...'fraid not. :tears:

After a few days of suffering, it hit me that I've seen this movie before, only in the past it'd always been accompanied by a failing tube, but no, that sweet EAT can't possibly have changed.

Just happened to have a 7DJ8 laying around ... popped it in and immediately things were back! :music:

The EAT has not gone noisy, micro phonic, or else, It just doesn't sound right anymore. :no:

I go through tubes like inkjet printer ink. :sigh:

thanks for listening... all better now. I really need to get priorities in order, but a funked up system can sure put ya in a bit of a testy mood when it's not running right. :sigh:

joeinid

06-01-2012, 07:23 PM

Hi Ray,

Sorry to read of the EAT's demise. Do know how many hours may have been on it? Thinking about having the ET5 checked out? I have an EAT with zero hours on it I can send you. Want to try it?

Rayooo

06-01-2012, 07:55 PM

This EAT was a replacement for the original EAT I'd purchased early last year. (which had failed in short order)
This replacement has some hours, probably 500ish.

At this point, if the Tele 7DJ8 hangs in there, I'm good to go. I'll probably be looking to buy another spare at some point, if this 7DJ8 lasts, maybe just get another one of these.

Thanks for the offer Joe, I'll keep it in mind, but, hopefully I'm good to go for now.

joeinid

06-01-2012, 08:42 PM

:rep:

:cool:

:hug:

Myles B. Astor

06-01-2012, 09:46 PM

Had that happen recently with a JJ ECC83 in the phono stage. Thought at first the cartridge was mistracking; then a friend brought over a set of JJECC803s to listen to. We installed them and voila, the problem was the tube, not the cartridge. Thank goodness!

jdandy

06-01-2012, 09:51 PM

I have read on more than one occasion that EAT has a relatively high incident of tube failure, as well as longevity issues.

Rayooo

06-01-2012, 10:13 PM

I'm liking this 7DJ8 so far, never really thought I would.. at $85 it's a little easier to deal with than $200 for the EAT.
time will tell though.

goone

06-01-2012, 10:36 PM

Not a good news sorry about that Ray
I am current running EAT in the ET-5 cross finger

rthomeint

06-01-2012, 10:37 PM

I can sympathize with your plight. It seems this EAT 6922 is the greatest thing since sliced bread until it fails. Are the places you bought them from refunding or replacing them? For this kind of money you would expect years of life. I've been tempted to try some in my MET150, but after bad 5751s in my Premier 11. I don't want to mess with tubes for a while.

turntable

06-02-2012, 01:01 AM

I'm liking this 7DJ8 so far, never really thought I would.. at $85 it's a little easier to deal with than $200 for the EAT.
time will tell though.

I hate tubes failing, especially when they still worhowLart of the joy of running tubes I guess.

I really like my PCC88 / 7DJ8 in my GAT.

How does it sonically compare to the EAT?

Rayooo

06-02-2012, 05:28 AM

I hate tubes failing, especially when they still worhowLart of the joy of running tubes I guess.

I really like my PCC88 / 7DJ8 in my GAT.

How does it sonically compare to the EAT?

Jury is still out, but after a few hours last evening, I think it's darned close to the EAT...when the EAT was in it's prime.

Maybe just ever so slightly less smooth on sibilance, but I could live with this tube nicely.

Assuming what I think I hear is what I hear, I'll stick with this for awhile. Hopefully I can get some hours out of it.

Rayooo

06-02-2012, 05:34 AM

Not a good news sorry about that Ray
I am current running EAT in the ET-5 cross finger

Good luck!! I'm sure this EAT had to have had upwards of 500 hours. I guess I really need to start logging tube install dates.

Rayooo

06-09-2012, 08:48 AM

I really can't win on this never ending tube-thing.

after digging through my stash, I came up with a Mullard 6922 that sounded reasonably close to the EAT. :sigh:

Craziness got the better of me, and I ordered another EAT, it arrived..when I opened the box, the tube damper/heatshink was completely LOOSE on the tube. :tears:

The tube damper in this case had not been glued/epoxied on the tube, but had round rubber shims that supposedly would provide a snug fit to the tube. Not in this case. So that one is on it's way back and I guess I'll get yet another at some point. I'm just not sure what to think about these EAT tubes. In my case they have been problematic. :sigh:

I did install one of those cheapo "square" type tube dampers on the Mullard, and it really is pretty darn close to the EAT. :yes: I may just give up on EAT and stick with this Mullard.

joeinid

06-09-2012, 09:54 AM

Hi Ray,

I feel bad reading about all these issues. Sometimes we get into a mode where everything just doesn't seem to go well. I hope everything gets straightened out. I don't remember if you've ever tried Gold Lions?

Rayooo

06-09-2012, 10:04 AM

I've got a gold lion, which is fine and...I gave it a try the other day, it sounds good, real good, but just not quite as good (to me at least) as the EAT, or the current Mullard.

Overall I can't complain, I've got a collection of spare tubes, all of which are in general just fine, it's really just a case me trying to find that exact replacement for the EAT.

Joe Appierto

06-09-2012, 10:20 AM

Ray,

Just curious, but have you tried any of these tubes without the dampers? And if you did, what did you think?

Thanks,

Rayooo

06-09-2012, 10:35 AM

Ray,

Just curious, but have you tried any of these tubes without the dampers? And if you did, what did you think?

Thanks,

Hum, No actually.
I guess I'd say I've been lulled into thinking it's "proper" to put a couple rubber bands on a tube. :D ..so I default to something like the stock dampers CJ provide.

In the case of the Mullard, when I tried one of the wide/square types of dampers (much more surface contact with the tube) I "think" it improved the sound of the Mullard, making it more EAT-like, but I'm playing in the weeds here.

..but I think next time around I may in fact try a couple tubes "damperless" :yes:

joeinid

06-09-2012, 10:43 AM

I'd wonder if it was just the glue that was not holding or something worse, like it got whacked. Be careful. You do not want to hurt the preamp.

;)

Rayooo

06-09-2012, 11:17 AM

I'd wonder if it was just the glue that was not holding or something worse, like it got whacked. Be careful. You do not want to hurt the preamp.

;)

it occurred to me awhile back that with an EAT tube...if somehow that heatsink/damper got loose in operation, it could theoretically slide down the tube and land on something below, which with a little imagination could conceivably cause a rather catastrophic problem depending on what it landed on. Maybe since it's anodized it wouldn't really short anything out, but still, I'd not like to be the one to test it.:tears:

Joe Appierto

06-09-2012, 01:33 PM

..but I think next time around I may in fact try a couple tubes "damperless" :yes:

Sometimes, at least with myself, I used to wonder if what I was hearing is what I expected to hear when I made a change to the system. But over time, it seems, I've "trained" myself to approach the changes a little more critically.

Then there's the whole subject of just because it now sounds different, all-in-all does it sound "better"?

That having been said, you might just be pleasantly surprised if you decide to go damperless. :)

CJ Premier3

06-09-2012, 05:16 PM

Joe Appierto

06-09-2012, 07:04 PM

Hello Ray, Joe & Joe (Appierto)

I really like Your System very much @Joe Appierto, great preamp and amp combo and also those very interesting Quad`s, like them also but decided to go withe the 3.7`s in the end.. How does the Pr140 compare to the Pr11 ? What are the differences? Would really appreciate Your experiences ! :yes:

Grets to all and have fun :nono:
Marc

Thank you for the kind words, Marc.

The Pr 140 has been out of the system since last Fall due to a mishap (my fault) and it hasn't been fixed yet so I've been running the Pr 11A exclusively since then.

The older amp, although excellent, is more romantic sounding than the 140 which is noticeably more neutral. Some of that I'm sure is just plain ole differences in circuit design and the rest lies with the small signal tubes. The 6H30's used in the 140 are IMO less "tubey" than the 6CG7/6FQ7 type which are basically 9-pin 6SN7's. The differences between the 5751's in the 11A and the 6922 in the 140 aren't as great and both can significantly tailor the sound depending on what you use.

The 140 is also more dynamic than the 11A although not nearly as much as I'd thought it would be. I think the doubling of the output power is more evident in the sound stage of the 140 which is wider and deeper than the 11A. And the 11A is no slouch in that regard to begin with.

I am really enjoying the 11A and have been rolling tubes in and out on a regular basis. Depending on what's in there, you can go from lean sounding to relatively neutral to really lush. And depending on what I feel like, they vary accordingly.

Push came to shove, I'd opt for the 140 if I could only keep one of them even with its more expensive up-keep, but I've been really satisfied with the 11A in the system.

Hope this was some help and I didn't ramble on too much.

CJ Premier3

06-09-2012, 09:43 PM

Well, thats a nice reply, thanks :D, Joe !

I was asking because I was considering the Pr140 for my system for quite a while and because I owned the MV60se with KT88 McIntosh tubes when I bought the MG3.7 last October. I do not know the Pr11a from my own experience but from what I read in the web it could be quite comparable to the MV60se ?
Anyway, in the meantime I sold the MV60se and bought a Moon W5.3RS which is `controlling` the Maggies better, especially in the lower frequencies. At the same time I am also missing a bit of the musicality of the MV60, tube magic, guess it is :music: May be one day I will be going back to tubes again with more power then ... Also found this article with a review of the Pr140 which gives You some information about the sound/design differences between MV60se and PR140 ... for example..
I guess the more modern designs are more about neutrality and precision in sound, may be I am more the romantic type of guy ? :music: Maybe thats also why I do love my PR3 so much, its from the early 80ties :smoking:

CJ Premier3

06-09-2012, 09:46 PM

Forgot the link

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/11278_eprint.pdf

ronenash

06-10-2012, 12:35 AM

Thank you for the kind words, Marc.

The Pr 140 has been out of the system since last Fall due to a mishap (my fault) and it hasn't been fixed yet so I've been running the Pr 11A exclusively since then.

The older amp, although excellent, is more romantic sounding than the 140 which is noticeably more neutral. Some of that I'm sure is just plain ole differences in circuit design and the rest lies with the small signal tubes. The 6H30's used in the 140 are IMO less "tubey" than the 6CG7/6FQ7 type which are basically 9-pin 6SN7's. The differences between the 5751's in the 11A and the 6922 in the 140 aren't as great and both can significantly tailor the sound depending on what you use.

The 140 is also more dynamic than the 11A although not nearly as much as I'd thought it would be. I think the doubling of the output power is more evident in the sound stage of the 140 which is wider and deeper than the 11A. And the 11A is no slouch in that regard to begin with.

I am really enjoying the 11A and have been rolling tubes in and out on a regular basis. Depending on what's in there, you can go from lean sounding to relatively neutral to really lush. And depending on what I feel like, they vary accordingly.

Push came to shove, I'd opt for the 140 if I could only keep one of them even with its more expensive up-keep, but I've been really satisfied with the 11A in the system.

Hope this was some help and I didn't ramble on too much.

The fix should not be difficult. I can try to help you out if you provide more details on what went wrong. Its a shame to have a Pr140 just sitting there. Its really a wonderful amp.

Joe Appierto

06-10-2012, 06:22 AM

The fix should not be difficult. I can try to help you out if you provide more details on what went wrong. Its a shame to have a Pr140 just sitting there. Its really a wonderful amp.

Hi Ron,

What happened was this. I was using improper fuse values in the amp (that’s another story but bottom line, a really stupid move on my part). :o One of the output tubes arced and instead of the fuse blowing, smoke came out from the tube socket and there was a burning smell. I quickly shut down the amp.

I don’t know if I just fried the biasing resistor or if there’s additional damage. I have a problem with my heart and lugging the 85 lb. amp around is really the problem at this point.

I really appreciate your offer but my best bet is probably to get FedEx or UPS to pick it up and send it to c-j to get it fixed. I’ve just been procrastinating.

Thank you, Ron, for the offer. It’s really kind of you.

Regards,

CJ Premier3

06-10-2012, 06:52 AM

Rayooo

06-10-2012, 07:14 AM

Hi Ron,

What happened was this. I was using improper fuse values in the amp (that’s another story but bottom line, a really stupid move on my part). :o One of the output tubes arced and instead of the fuse blowing, smoke came out from the tube socket and there was a burning smell. I quickly shut down the amp.

I don’t know if I just fried the biasing resistor or if there’s additional damage. I have a problem with my heart and lugging the 85 lb. amp around is really the problem at this point.

I really appreciate your offer but my best bet is probably to get FedEx or UPS to pick it up and send it to c-j to get it fixed. I’ve just been procrastinating.

Thank you, Ron, for the offer. It’s really kind of you.

Regards,

Joe, I live fairly close to you, {morris county nj} if at some point you would like help lugging that big CJ around, it would be my pleasure! Please don't hesitate to ping me if I could be of assistance..always good to help out a fellow CJ owner + AA person. As Ron said, it's a shame to have that Amp out of service! :yes:

Joe Appierto

06-10-2012, 07:43 AM

Joe, I live fairly close to you, {morris county nj} if at some point you would like help lugging that big CJ around, it would be my pleasure! Please don't hesitate to ping me if I could be of assistance..always good to help out a fellow CJ owner + AA person. As Ron said, it's a shame to have that Amp out of service! :yes:

Thank you, Ray, your offer is much appreciated. :thumbsup: Let me see what I can get done on this end, first.

Thanks, again!

Joe Appierto

06-10-2012, 08:22 AM

Hi Joe

First of all my best wishes for Your Health !

How did You like the PR140 article - link ? A glowing review with a lot of personal CJ-experience and this oh so very nice anecdote of the `old` CJ-combo playing with the Quads, isnt that really enthusiasm/love ?? :banana:

Cu, Marc

Hi Marc,

First, thanks for your well wishes. And, also for the link to the Sam Tellg review which I printed out and just finished reading.

I’d read this review years ago but it seems that I’d forgotten a great deal of it. I was a little startled to see how similar Sam’s system (Pr 16LS2, Pr 140, Quad 988) was to the one I’ve assembled over time (same amp and preamp but with Quad 989’s).

His comments on the superior resolving power of the Pr 140 mirror my own experience with the amp. It is very clear and you get to hear a great deal of what’s going on in a recording. This is one of the areas where it betters the Pr 11A. And from everything I’ve read (but not heard, unfortunately), c-j’s more modern amps take this even farther.

You’ve got me wondering now how my odyssey from the 11A and Pr 17 to the 140 and the 16LS2 was influenced, maybe unconsciously, from having read this review back then. :scratch2:

Thanks, again.

CJ Premier3

06-10-2012, 08:54 AM

Hi Joe

That is a very nice `odyssey` I would say ! I remembered this review when I had a look at Your system and thought it would be a pleasure for You to re-read it again - guessed that You had already known it before. Unfortunately I left the chance to buy a PR140 on ebay which was sold in the end for a veeery low price, this would have been fascinating with my speakers ... May be also a PR350 would suit my system very well, lets see what the future brings :yes: I am even more thinking about a new preamp and of course conrad-johnson is a strong candidate - I am also watching the CAT-preamps which I like very much (but no personal experience with it yet)

ronenash

06-10-2012, 10:56 AM

Hi Ron,

What happened was this. I was using improper fuse values in the amp (that’s another story but bottom line, a really stupid move on my part). :o One of the output tubes arced and instead of the fuse blowing, smoke came out from the tube socket and there was a burning smell. I quickly shut down the amp.

I don’t know if I just fried the biasing resistor or if there’s additional damage. I have a problem with my heart and lugging the 85 lb. amp around is really the problem at this point.

I really appreciate your offer but my best bet is probably to get FedEx or UPS to pick it up and send it to c-j to get it fixed. I’ve just been procrastinating.

Thank you, Ron, for the offer. It’s really kind of you.

Regards,

Hi Joe,

Most likely a catode resistor is blown. These located next to the tube sockets and are 20ohm 2w resistors in most CJ amps. Its a very simple fix and probably a good local technician with tube amp experience can fix it. If you are handy with electronics I can guide you through it.

Good luck
Ron.

Joe Appierto

06-10-2012, 10:38 PM

Hi Joe,

Most likely a catode resistor is blown. These located next to the tube sockets and are 20ohm 2w resistors in most CJ amps. Its a very simple fix and probably a good local technician with tube amp experience can fix it. If you are handy with electronics I can guide you through it.

Good luck
Ron.

I'm going to check if there's someone local tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion, Ron. Sooner or later, this puppy's going to get fixed.:yes:

turntable

06-10-2012, 10:57 PM

I'm going to check if there's someone local tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion, Ron. Sooner or later, this puppy's going to get fixed.:yes:

Joe, pack in the box, ship it to cj and have them do the Teflon cap upgrade and get it back to better than new. :yes: :no: :scratch2: :D. :thumbsup:

joeinid

06-10-2012, 11:13 PM

Joe, pack in the box, ship it to cj and have them do the Teflon cap upgrade and get it back to better than new. :yes: :no: :scratch2: :D. :thumbsup:

+1

:yes::banana::D

ronenash

06-11-2012, 12:06 AM

Joe, pack in the box, ship it to cj and have them do the Teflon cap upgrade and get it back to better than new. :yes: :no: :scratch2: :D. :thumbsup:

This will turn it into a killer amp up, up there with the best. :yes:

CJ Premier3

06-11-2012, 07:39 AM

Just curious whats the `Best` then in that case (from CJ I guess) :D:music:

Cheers, Marc

Joe Appierto

06-11-2012, 01:04 PM

Rayooo

06-11-2012, 01:38 PM

joeinid

06-11-2012, 01:50 PM

:icon_jump::pg2::applause:

+1

:banana:

Coppy

06-11-2012, 04:37 PM

Thank you for the encouragement, gentlemen. :thumbsup: I finally got off my duff and tomorrow, FedEx will hopefully be here to pick up the Premier 140 for its trip to Fairfax.

I spoke to Ed Deitemeier at c-j a little while ago and he told me the price to upgrade the caps was around $2,300. So, I'm going to have that done, too, in addition to the repairs.

Once it's back, I'll let you know how it sounds. I know it'll be a while for the Teflon caps to break in, but I don't mind because it'll be worth it in the end. :yes:

Joe... while they are at it, you might ask them to put in a set of KT120s as well. Then you'll have the best of the best. If you decide to do the KT120s, the tube cage may not fit if that matters to you. I'm sure they can return your old tubes if you'd like.

Congratulations!:music:

Bob

Joe Appierto

06-11-2012, 05:00 PM

Joe... while they are at it, you might ask them to put in a set of KT120s as well. Then you'll have the best of the best. If you decide to do the KT120s, the tube cage may not fit if that matters to you. I'm sure they can return your old tubes if you'd like.

Congratulations!:music:

Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I still have an octet of the KT120s from when the amp was working. They'll find their way back into the 140, I'm sure. :yes: I'm fortunate in having accumulated a number of sets of various types over the years and tend to rotate them in and out. It will help pass the time as the caps break in.

And maybe this time, I'll settle on one set and keep them in there and stop fiddling about. :scratch2:

Regards,

Coppy

06-11-2012, 06:07 PM

Joe... Sounds like you're ready to go. Probably better to break the amp in on some tubes who's life is less important to you. I'm not sure I totally get this tube rolling thing. Some tubes are different but, as I listen over time, different isn't necessarily better. I've tried some highly regarded NOS tubes in my GAT and so far have gone back to the Russian 6922s that came in the unit. They are better top to bottom and a much quieter. I'm glad I haven't gotten into the EAT tubes, highly regarded by some and expensive. Some of our folks say they go sour after as little as 500 hours and many seem to be defective to begin with. Tubes to me are like wine: another hobby. A Cab will be to die for tonight and only good tomorrow. I believe our taste buds and ears change day to day making some of these judgements a bit suspect.

So much for that... you're going to love that amp when it gets back.

Bob

turntable

06-11-2012, 06:35 PM

Thank you for the encouragement, gentlemen. :thumbsup: I finally got off my duff and tomorrow, FedEx will hopefully be here to pick up the Premier 140 for its trip to Fairfax.

I spoke to Ed Deitemeier at c-j a little while ago and he told me the price to upgrade the caps was around $2,300. So, I'm going to have that done, too, in addition to the repairs.

Once it's back, I'll let you know how it sounds. I know it'll be a while for the Teflon caps to break in, but I don't mind because it'll be worth it in the end. :yes:

great stuff Joe. The teflon caps will and a level of clarity, quietness and purity which will be hard to describe.

Nothing like a lot of encouragement from fellow cj drug addicts:D

Joe Appierto

06-11-2012, 06:53 PM

Tubes to me are like wine: another hobby. A Cab will be to die for tonight and only good tomorrow. I believe our taste buds and ears change day to day making some of these judgements a bit suspect.

So much for that... you're going to love that amp when it gets back.

Bob

Your wine analogy is spot on and one of the things that make generalizations so difficult to make. Is the pair of LP140's that you have the predecessor to the LP125? I couldn't find anything on the conrad-johnson web site about them.
__________________________________________________ _____________

great stuff Joe. The teflon caps will and a level of clarity, quietness and purity which will be hard to describe.

Nothing like a lot of encouragement from fellow cj drug addicts:D

I'm actually getting excited about how they're going to sound once they're back from c-j. :yes: Quite honestly, the comments I got from you guys was a deciding factor in going for the upgrade.

ronenash

06-12-2012, 12:34 AM

Your wine analogy is spot on and one of the things that make generalizations so difficult to make. Is the pair of LP140's that you have the predecessor to the LP125? I couldn't find anything on the conrad-johnson web site about them.
__________________________________________________ _____________

I'm actually getting excited about how they're going to sound once they're back from c-j. :yes: Quite honestly, the comments I got from you guys was a deciding factor in going for the upgrade.

You have every reason to be excited Joe.
I am sure it will be a killer amp and as you said its well worth the looooong break in time.

The LP140 is not exatly the predecessor to the LP125. Its essentially two LP125 in one chassis. It is an older model and thus was not offered with the teflon caps as the time. I am sure with the teflon caps upgrade it will easilly match current CJ offerings.

Coppy

06-12-2012, 04:39 PM

Joe,

The LP series of three amplifiers were the c-j's last "Premier" level amplifiers before the ART series. There were three amps in the series, a stereo amp at 70WPC, and two mono block sets at 140WPC and 275WPC, LP140 and LP275. They were all built with a full complement of teflon caps. The ART is the basically the LP275 with some input circuit and transformer upgrades. They were equipped with either four, eight or sixteen 6550 output tubes. I believe you can still buy the LP series factory refurbished form Spirit Sound. They were all highly reviewed.

Bob