Home auditioning...

[slowGEEZR]

I've been researching amplifiers and preamps for a while now and am getting closer to some decisions, I think. Over the next couple of weeks or so, I will be auditioning some conrad-johnson, Nagra and Audio Research gear in my home media room. It took some coordinating with a couple of different dealers, but I'm happy to be able to finally check out this gear and compare with each other and my current gear in my own system! Wish me luck!

[joeinid]

Good luck my friend. I am excited to read what you plan on auditioning. Based on my experience, as limited as it is, I find there is no substitute for living with a piece of gear to learn what it can do for you. Good Luck! :)

[slowGEEZR]

Well, I was supposed to have some gear for evaluation by Easter, but it looks like now the first gear will be here tomorrow. First up will be some Nagra gear, the PL-L Preamp and I believe the MSA amplifier, though he may bring a different amp. I'm sure I'll like the preamp, as I've heard it before in a friend's system. He uses it to drive his Ayre MX-R's. I'm not so sure about the MSA, as I think my WP-8's like more power than it delivers. Anyway, I'll post a pic and my impressions of the gear when I audition it.

[slowGEEZR]

Last night I placed into my system for review a Nagra PL-L linestage and a Nagra MSA (Mosfet Stereo Amplifier) 60wpc amplifier. This combo is stable into just about any speaker load imaginable, as the amp power supply “incorprates an active power correction system known as PFC – Power Factor Correction. At first, I was hesitant to put a 60 watt solid state amp into my system, especially a 60 watt transistor amp! My previous experience has always been that subjectively, with the same wattage tube amp versus transistor amp, the tube amp always seemed more powerful. I had an EAR 70wpc amp in the system previously and felt a little more power would be nice. Not so with the Nagra. I am amazed at how it takes control of my speakers. I pushed them to very, very loud sound levels and there were none of the usual culprits displayed, such as tonal aberrations, subjective amp strain, or compression of the soundstage that typically let me know that the power is insufficient. As for the sound, I have always been pretty much a “tube guy” in that I've always experienced that tubes seem to put more “meat on the bones” so to speak with the music. If a sax or a voice has sounded thin to me, it has always been with a transistor amp, not a tube amp. While I've always enjoyed transistor amps because the ones I've listened to seem to do better at the extreme lows and highs than the tube amps I've heard, I've always preferred the richness of a tube amp's midrange. Well, I have to say that my preconceptions have been changed. This Nagra combo is so detailed, while being so musical, that I am somewhat nonplussed. How can this 60wpc amp sound like a 200wpc tube amp in the midrange, yet have all the detail that transistor amps have? They (the audio press) say that amplifier and preamplifier progress in both camps, transistor and tube are converging at the high end to sound more like real life. Color me impressed.

Next on the agenda is to audition the Audio Research Ref5SE and Ref150 within the next week or so. I might also be able to audition the AR LS27 preamp, after all, it is much cheaper than the Ref5SE! After that will be some conrad johnson, I hope, if I can find the components I'm interested in available. But, the AR and the CJ gear are going to have to be spectacular to beat that Nagra combo.

[Still-One]

Steve
Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to seeing how the other units compare. I have only had very limited exposure to Nagra but one has to admire the engineering that goes into their product.

You are either going to have the time of your life comparing these products or you will drive yourself crazy.

Jim

[cmalak]

Steve...very cool and thx for sharing your thoughts :thumbsup: Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the ARC and C-J gear. I have Nagra's little SS phono amp - the BPS, and I have heard the PL-L preamp at my dealer, and I think their gear is great. Enjoy the extended auditions at your home and let us know how you are making out :thumbsup:

[slowGEEZR]

Thanks guys, I'll keep updating my experiences with these products and also, I hope some Mcintosh gear. I'm thinking maybe the MC452 amp and a corresponding preamp, but I haven't really studied Mcintosh preamps, so I will have to catch up on that.

[slowGEEZR]

Steve
Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to seeing how the other units compare. I have only had very limited exposure to Nagra but one has to admire the engineering that goes into their product.

You are either going to have the time of your life comparing these products or you will drive yourself crazy.

Jim

Ha ha, I think I'll be fine, unless of course, the one setup that I can't live without is beyond my price range! Luckily, I'm in no hurry and am taking my time to get exactly what I want.

[Jerome W]

Very interesting Steve. Especially for an other WP8 owner like me.
Thanks a lot.
Imagine what a pair of MSA could do then !
I use the WP8 with the 2301's but since a few weeks I tried the Manley Snappers : 100W monoblocks of EL34. I lost the huge scene and power and extreme bass of the 2301's but The mids are warmer and very delicious. A more intimate and focus presentation. Very suitable for small jazz groups and vocals.
I would not imagine that a MSA could do the job on the WP8. Nagra is great :thumbsup:

[oldjayz]

Well I have had some experience with Nagra amps. I still have the Nagra VPS as my phono prewhich is extremely quiet and can accommodate 2 tables if I needed it to do so.

I had the Nagra PSA (100 watts) with my Act 2 Series2. It was a great combination and it never faulted at all. My only problem with the Nagra amp was I needed more power. I know it sounds strange but I have a pair of Martin Logan CLSiiZ in the front and do they do take a lot of power to make them sing. The impedance swings did not phase the amp at all. Now if I had had the PMA's Nagra monoblocks that would have been different. :) I currently have a CJ Premier 350. :)
Personally I think all three choices are excellent and there is no loser here. It will come down to a matter of preference. They all have their own unique sound signature and that is where you will decide which one is the one where is gives you that "ah ha" moment.

Good Luck

Jeff

[slowGEEZR]

My dealer came by yesterday and retrieved the Nagra gear. I'm estimating I listened to that gear for 20 - 25 hours, so I got a pretty good handle on its sonic picture. It excels on clarity and has great dynamic swings, as well as a great soundstage as far as image size and width. It really brings out those little musical queues, such as being able to detect which cymbal is struck and even which part of a cymbal is struck. All those things that seem hidden in the recording with my other gear are very clearly heard with the Nagra amp and preamp. So far, I haven't heard any other amp/preamp combo in my system sound so clear.

The negatives are few. My psychological predisposition to thinking that 60wpc is not enough power! I think at very high loudness levels, I started to detect a little hardening of the sound, or was it just so loud that it hurt my ears? It's kind of a moot point, as those sound levels were so high I would never listen, as I don't want hearing loss! There was enough power to feel the bass in the floors and my stomach, so that should be sufficient! I also believe there is more to be had in soundstage depth, though I must admit that my Adona racks are currently situated between the speakers and that may be affecting that aspect of the soundstage. Once I select which amp and preamp to purchase, I will buy the correct/corresponding cabling so that I can move the rack along a side wall, away from the speakers. I also wonder if there is more to be had in the imaging, as can the images have more of a 3-D effect? That is one aspect I am anticipating with the AR combo.

I installed my Krell KAV 400xi integrated after the Nagra was gone and noticed immediately the extreme clarity was missing. It's almost as if I placed some cotton in my ears. Before listening to the Nagra gear, I had thought the Krell was very clear, boy was I wrong! This single revelation has made it worthwhile to have an in home audition. The soundstage also seemed more closed in with the Krell, but to be fair, this was straight out of storage and turned on, with no time really to warm up for any length of time. The Krell may open up some after a while.

Next, will be the Audio Research gear. I'll report my reactions after listening to it for a while.

[cmalak]

Steve...thx for the write-up and sharing your experiences. Do you know if the Nagra gear was already broken in? Same with the AR equipment you are going to be auditioning next? Just want to make sure that you are listening to what the gear can do once it has reached optimal playback conditions :thumbsup:

[jdandy]

Steve...thx for the write-up and sharing your experiences. Do you know if the Nagra gear was already broken in? Same with the AR equipment you are going to be auditioning next? Just want to make sure that you are listening to what the gear can do once it has reached optimal playback conditions :thumbsup:

Cyril.......Break in is the big question mark, especially for the Acoustic Research gear which typically takes well beyond 250 hours for the specialty caps to settle. Trying to do a home audition of AR gear fresh out of the box will not reveal a true sonic experience. One can surmise that an incorrect decision could be made under those circumstances.

[slowGEEZR]

Yes, I am concerned about that and so is the Audio Research dealer, so he has been playing the pieces in order to have a fair shootout. The Nagra gear is the other dealer's demo gear and is well broken in. I'll be contacting the AR dealer this week to check on break-in time for the AR pieces.

[cmalak]

Dan/Steve...you are absolutely right. The suggested break-in time on the new Reference gear (Ref 5SE and Ref 150) that you are going to audition is closer to 600 hrs, although you will get a good dose of what the gear is capable of at probably 300-400 hrs. Just wanted to highlight it for you Steve to make sure you have a fair chance to compare the gear properly :thumbsup:

[slowGEEZR]

Thanks Cyril, I appreciate it. Luckily, I'm not in that big of a hurry, so I can let the dealer break in the gear properly, without too much anxiety on my part, before I audition it. I'll tell you though, the form factor and convenience (light weight, stackable) of the Nagra gear is wonderful. The only downside to the design, in my view, is that the inputs are on the left side of the preamp and the outputs are on the right side. I think I can special order it built with the outputs to the rear, which I would do, if I decide to go with the Nagra.

[cmalak]

Steve...as I mentioned. I own their BPS preamp and have heard the PL-L pre at my dealers along with their CD player. Very detail adn resolving but still highly musical and natural sounding. I like their gear a lot. The Audio Research gear has many of the same traits but again it will come down to preference. Enjoy the auditions. This is half the fun :thumbsup:

[slowGEEZR]

Due to some unexpected money issues, I've put the Ref5SE and Ref-150 purchases on hold and instead purchased a pair of Pass Labs XA-100.5 mono amps and an XP-20 pre, on which I got a fantastic deal.

[Still-One]

Due to some unexpected money issues, I've put the Ref5SE and Ref-150 purchases on hold and instead purchased a pair of Pass Labs XA-100.5 mono amps and an XP-20 pre, on which I got a fantastic deal.
Wow, that is the kind of issues to have. Those are great products and do not need to take a back seat to too many set-ups.

Keep us posted.

Jim

[cmalak]

Due to some unexpected money issues, I've put the Ref5SE and Ref-150 purchases on hold and instead purchased a pair of Pass Labs XA-100.5 mono amps and an XP-20 pre, on which I got a fantastic deal.

Steve...congrats on the Pass amp and preamp :thumbsup: The XA100.5 got a raving review from Robert Harley I believe a few years back. I am sure the combo is great. Enjoy!

[slowGEEZR]

This is really very interesting to me. I had thought that I would be able to listen in my media room all the brands that really appealed to me. I was hoping to be able to listen to some cj gear, as that was my original intent, to get maybe an LP 275 and an ET 5. In the end, I ended up purchasing a Pass Labs amp and preamp and I couldn't be happier. Isn't it strange how things work out?