ET2 or ET3?

[CDLehner]

After some deliberation, I've decided to hold on to my mf-2500a; at least for now (I'll speak to that process in my which SS amp for this C-J noob thread). As such, I'd love to see what this amp can do, when matched with a quality C-J pre-amp as well. I've always had my eye on a PV-15, but I let one slip away with Teflon caps, at a great price (when, for the record, I wasn't entirely sold on the idea that C-J gear was for me)...and ever since, I've found it hard to justify paying more, for the offerings that have come up without Teflon caps.

Right now I have an opportunity to get into either an ET2 or ET3, in my budget...and I'm torn about the "right" choice". I know both are quality units, and I'm likely to be "happy" with either...but who wants to merely be "happy"...lol; I want to get the "better" of the two, and also feel I got great value. :yes:

They're both around the same price (for the purposes of full disclosure, the ET3 is slightly less), so I guess the ET2 is more heavily discounted; I also like its styling (although it really doesn't match anything else I have, including the C-J amp). Does the ET2 have Teflon caps stock?

OTOH...the ET3 is newer. Yes, it's msrp is less than the ET2, which means I'm not getting equal value if the ET2 is around the same price...but from what I've read, it's only because C-J spent more on the circuit and parts, and less on the fancy case (plus, the "plainer" looking ET3 fits in better with other gear...FWTW). The ET3 gets great marks, and is truly thought to be a "baby"-GAT (not just hyperbole)...but is its sound for me? Is the ET3 a little richer and warmer than the ET2? I've read it's a return to "romance", and the "old" C-J sound. That may be why most C-J guys love it, but I'm not sure that would be for me. A little warmth is OK; it's one of the reasons I decided to keep the mf-2500a...but I don't think I'm interested in overly warm.

The ET3...and yes, this is not an SE...definitely doesn't have Teflon caps, and if the ET2 comes with them, that would be a BIG plus (I think?). Of course I could always look into the Teflon upgrade for an ET3, or even the full SE procedure (or are they one in the same? Anyone know what Teflon caps, and/or the SE upgrade for the ET3 runs? I know I could check with Ed, but I'm looking to make a decision this weekend, and I doubt C-J is open). Also...is it true the ET3 doesn't have Balance control? Not that I use it...hardly ever; but I do find it a little weird, that a unit at this price and quality doesn't have it.

So...ET2, ET3 for a little less; or just wait for the right PV-15 to come along, because there's little difference between the 3...the PV-15 will be cheaper...it's a better, "natural" match with the mf-2500a, and I can always put Teflon caps on that, if it's a keeper otherwise? Help???

[Rafale]

ET2 : Plate power supplies use polypropylene capacitors with Teflon bypasses (0.15uF) exclusively. Output coupling capacitors are a composite of polypropylene and Teflon, while the RIAA network capacitors are polystyrene types.

[Rayooo]

Did the ET2 use the Integrated circuit analog switches for input switching+volume control verses the newer relay switching/volume control??

purely a personal preference based on nothing but my own superstition, but I'd prefer the relays vs other.

I seem to remember a couple earlier CJ models that used the analog IC switches, but I don't know for sure.

[jimtranr]

CD, this may be of no help at all, since it's a non-Tefloned PR17LS rather than an ET2 or ET3 that feeds my straight-no-chaser MF2500, but I'd suggest that you don't tie yourself up in knots trying to decide whether either ET or the PV-15 is the "best" match for your 2500A. Scratching your head over it is the shortest route to doing nothing and perhaps letting a good match for the "A" slip away while you're trying to make up your mind.

My experience with the 2500--feeding it initially with a heavily modified Counterpoint SA-2000 tubed line stage, then with the 17LS to drive, first, crossover-upgraded Magnepan 1.6QR's and then Paradigm SE-3's--is that it's a reasonably neutral amp, neither "cold" nor "warm," with a very slight dropoff at the very bottom. The improved "A" corrects that dropoff but retains the basically neutral characteristic. So given that, you're not likely to wind up with "overly warm" or "heavy breathing romantic" whether you go with the 2, 3, or the 15.

FWIW.

[Puma Cat]

CD, this may be of no help at all, since it's a non-Tefloned PR17LS rather than an ET2 or ET3 that feeds my straight-no-chaser MF2500, but I'd suggest that you don't tie yourself up in knots trying to decide whether either ET or the PV-15 is the "best" match for your 2500A. Scratching your head over it is the shortest route to doing nothing and perhaps letting a good match for the "A" slip away while you're trying to make up your mind.
<SNIP>
So given that, you're not likely to wind up with "overly warm" or "heavy breathing romantic" whether you go with the 2, 3, or the 15.
FWIW.

+1! Sound familiar, CD? ;)

I'm having a deja vú, all over again....:scratch2:

[CDLehner]

+1! Sound familiar, CD? ;)

I'm having a deja vú, all over again....:scratch2:

Yeah PC, it sounds familiar; except it's your take...your ears...your opinion. Does mine count for anything, when I'm trying to pick gear for myself? I'm not sure I can take this whole "just pick something...it's all good...and be happy with it" attitude, with anything but a grain of salt...when it's being given to someone else; I think it's easier said than done.

What...you didn't carefully pick your components? How about showing me the same consideration? No offense meant; it's just you get on me regularly for deliberating about gear. Maybe you drop thousands without much thought or consideration; nice work if you can get it. I don't...no matter how big a paycheck I may have.

And if the message is...there's NO difference whether I pick a PV-15, ET2, or ET3; just get something with a Champagne faceplate. Well, I'm sorry...that sounds just, plain silly.

[Pider]

Hey, CD. Half the fun is deliberating until the cows come home about what to get for yourself, the other half is vicariously picking some gear for someone else!

I just spent three hours yesterday and who knows how many more over the last week trying to determine which DAC to buy. Still haven't made up my mind. But it's fun, albeit frustrating. Take your time. Enjoy the journey. It's your road.

[CDLehner]

Hey, CD. Half the fun is deliberating until the cows come home about what to get for yourself, the other half is vicariously picking some gear for someone else!

I just spent three hours yesterday and who knows how many more over the last week trying to determine which DAC to buy. Still haven't made up my mind. But it's fun, albeit frustrating. Take your time. Enjoy the journey. It's your road.

Yeah, "fun" is a subjective word Pider. I think auditioning...trying different gear...can be half the "fun"; sometimes not. There's something to be said for being "happy" with your set-up, and just enjoying (trying to get there).

The hand-ringing, and deliberating; let's call it a necessary evil, IMO.

[CDLehner]

Can anyone comment on which ET, 2 or 3, has the "warmer" sound. I like a little warmth, and I think given it's a C-J to begin with, I can count on that. But I think I'd rather be on the neutral side of warm, as opposed to overly warm.

Thanks for any help. I don't mean to appear ungrateful for feedback; in fact, feedback I welcome. It's just, comments like "don't think too much...just pick something Champagne" I don't find to be particularly helpful.

[jimtranr]

Can anyone comment on which ET, 2 or 3, has the "warmer" sound. I like a little warmth, and I think given it's a C-J to begin with, I can count on that. But I think I'd rather be on the neutral side of warm, as opposed to overly warm.

Thanks for any help. I don't mean to appear ungrateful for feedback; in fact, feedback I welcome. It's just, comments like "don't think too much...just pick something Champagne" I don't find to be particularly helpful.

Have you read reviews of the ET2 and ET3? The ones I've seen indicate, intimate, or imply that neither exhibits the "classic" c-j "tubey" sound, and if anything tend to emphasize their neutrality, so it's unlikely that "overly warm" is going to be a problem with either, especially since you'd be pairing one or the other with the 2500A.

I hope that's more helpful.

[CDLehner]

Have you read reviews of the ET2 and ET3? The ones I've seen indicate, intimate, or imply that neither exhibits the "classic" c-j "tubey" sound, and if anything tend to emphasize their neutrality, so it's unlikely that "overly warm" is going to be a problem with either, especially since you'd be pairing one or the other with the 2500A.

I hope that's more helpful.

I did "jim"; have Google, will travel...and I always try to help myself first (although I prefer the feedback of actual users and enthusiasts, for the most part, to reviews). There's not a whole lot on either unit; C-J being rare-air and all...lol.

Here's a good snippet about the ET2, that I read...but I guess didn't really absorb:

Used as a linestage, the ET2 won me over pretty dang quickly, garnering excellent marks in several key areas. I’m not going to mince words when it comes to the bass range; pitch definition was remarkable, and bass lines in general were resolved with a precision rivaling that of any linestage I’ve auditioned to date, regardless of cost. The treble range, while fully under control, sounded a tad laid-back and short of air. There was never a hint of brightness or upper-register bite. Transients unfolded with plenty of speed and were allowed to decay delicately into a recording’s noise floor. The overall presentation was clean, smooth, and highly detailed, with an emphasis on harmonic accuracy. The ET2 was capable of revealing low-level nuances without sounding analytical. But it refused to add fat to the midrange, and harmonic textures were free of euphonic upper-midrange coloration. As a result, timbres were allowed to bloom without any sonic makeup. The truth and nothing but the musical truth is what the ET2 is all about. For me it was a joy of discovery, as the ET2 was able to zoom in on a particular voice or instrument and nail its timbre with authenticity. On the other hand, if you’re looking for a linestage to spice up or glorify your system, then the ET2 is probably not for you. It is not a romantic, lush, or assertive preamp. It’s not overtly tubey, but then it was not meant to be.

Sounds pretty definitively neutral, huh (that, of course, being a relative term)? As for the ET3:

"There are two schools of thought in good preamp design. Both follow the path of ‘first, do no harm’, like some electronic version of the Hippocratic Oath. Where they differ is whether they strive to do no harm to the recording, or the music. The two should be alike, but there seems to be a difference. The ET3, like the GAT before it, manages to make the music come to life whatever the recording. Others are faithful to the recording but the entertainment suffers in the process. This is the big bonus of the GAT, of course, in that it manages to make everything sound right without being sweet, where the ET3 makes everything sound right without being too sweet.

Where the ET3 scores highly is its soundstaging. The preamp – like the GAT before it – presents the listener with an enveloping sense of dimensionality that draws you deeper into the music. This will invariably bring up that great “yes, but is it accurate?” canard from those who will never hear or want to hear the ET3. Those who have and do just don’t care… they love the sound of the preamp, and would do so regardless.

In some respects, this is a return to conrad-johnson’s heyday, like a PV12, rather than a more recent PV15. There was a time when a c-j preamp drew you into the music in a way that no other preamp could. That was c-j’s strength, but somewhere down the line, that got pushed to one-side to make products more in line with the clean, detailed – and some would say bloodless – sound of the early 21st Century. It must be said, the top line of c-j preamps never quite lost the way, but somewhere the romance went out of the relationship at the lower and middle end. A move back began with the ET2 and the Classic preamps, but it’s here that the return to romance really kicks off again.

If there’s one word that sums up the ET3 it’s ‘sumptuous’. Sound is full-bodied and natural sounding, enveloping the listener in the musical event in the way the c-j preamps always used to".

OK...actually, I think these two clips tell me what I need to know (again, at least in the opinions of the reviewers). Is it my imagination, or does it seem these snippets paint the picture that...of the 3 pre-amps I have on my radar...the PV-15 is likely most neutral (bloodless? yikes), the ET2 closer to warm (the beginning of the move back), and the ET3 the most warm (a return to romance? lol). That being said, it's hard not to like the ET3...based on the picture this guy paints.

Yikes; must admit, I'm still torn. :scratch2: So c'mon C-J fans...lend me your sway...lol.

[dpod4]

Go for ET3SE and don't look back!

[CDLehner]

Go for ET3SE and don't look back!

Not in the budget at this point dpod. Isn't that always the way; the solution to all your problems...is there, just a bit beyond your reach...lol.

[dpod4]

Not in the budget at this point dpod. Isn't that always the way; the solution to all your problems...is there, just a bit beyond your reach...lol.

Let's have a AA bake sale to raise the extra dough!! Seriously I have read so many great things about the ET3 in either version I would probably migrate there.

[Rayooo]

Not in the budget at this point dpod. Isn't that always the way; the solution to all your problems...is there, just a bit beyond your reach...lol.

I think CJ will still do "SE" upgrades on non SE preamps???

So with ET3, the option would remain down the road to have it made into an SE. :thumbsup: I had an original Classic updated to an SE back when.

[Rafale]

CD....I had in my system ET2 and PV15, don't know ET3 but it is probably the best of three theoretically, BUT it is not said whether it is the best association with your amplifier, call Ed and asks he for his opinion
ET2 natural partner is LP66s

[CDLehner]

Thanks for the feedback guys. When all is said and done, I guess it is just about a coin-flip. I don't like throwing darts at a board...so when I'm indecisive, I usually just sit tight.

Sure, I'll get criticized that I let an opportunity pass; what...there won't be C-J pre-amps for sale anymore? I'll admit, I've learned the hard way and missed out on some bargains; but I give as good as I get, meaning I've landed some too. :yes:

Might just tuck this experience away, and use it to proceed more enlightened next time the opportunity arises; especially since the owner of one of these units seems to have gone MIA. Time will tell how this one plays out.

[cmalak]

CD...my take on the situation is there will be plenty of PV15s/ET2s/ET3s up for sale. If part of the issue is that you cannot audition locally any of these units (or better yet borrow from a local dealer for home audition), then I would call Ed at CJ next week (even if it means passing up on the deal you are being offered to consider this weekend), and explain to him what your system is comprised of and what your sonic preferences are and he should be able to steer you in the right direction. No fuss no muss :D

Also, in terms of auditioning, if you have no local dealers, the next time you are on a business trip or on a vacation to a location that might have a CJ dealer, set up an audition of whichever units they have on hand and decide for yourself.

My 2c.

[CDLehner]

CD...my take on the situation is there will be plenty of PV15s/ET2s/ET3s up for sale. If part of the issue is that you cannot audition locally any of these units (or better yet borrow from a local dealer for home audition), then I would call Ed at CJ next week (even if it means passing up on the deal you are being offered to consider this weekend), and explain to him what your system is comprised of and what your sonic preferences are and he should be able to steer you in the right direction. No fuss no muss :D

Also, in terms of auditioning, if you have no local dealers, the next time you are on a business trip or on a vacation to a location that might have a CJ dealer, set up an audition of whichever units they have on hand and decide for yourself.

My 2c.

I think that's wise; and like I said, I'll probably be forced to sit tight for now anyway...because the owner of the ET3 I was leaning toward, has gone quiet on me (too many questions, not enough PayPal maybe...lol).

[ronenash]

Having heard both the ET2 and ET3 in my system for a period of a few weeks I can tell you that the ET3 is a much better preamp. "makes music come to life" is a good description for the ET3. Everything and I mean everything sounds better through the ET3. I was shocked by the performance kick it gave me. I am talking about the non SE version. Eventually I am getting the SE version which is on order. The SE version should be much closer to the ET5 in performance. More transparent, more detail, more refined. You cannot go wrong with the bare ET3. In the future you can always send it back for an SE upgrade which will end up costing ~$500 more than buying the ET3SE from the beggining.

[cmalak]

CD...ronenash makes a compelling case for the ET3. What do you think?

[CDLehner]

CD...ronenash makes a compelling case for the ET3. What do you think?

Yup; I'd be ready to go that way...but that ship may have sailed. The seller has not returned like the last of my 5 inquiries. :tears:

J/K; like I said...plenty of ships in the sea.

[Puma Cat]

We're getting off-topic here, but with the forebearance of our fellow AAer's, I feel that it might be appropriate to set a number of facts straight:

Yeah PC, it sounds familiar; except it's your take...your ears...your opinion.

First: You're forgetting that you keep asking me for my opinion. And, I might add, frequently. You've written me many, many PMs over a quite a considerable period of time asking for "my take, my opinion", on everything from speakers to amps to preamps, and to make recommendations to you. As well as to do your research for you. And I've spend a considerable time crafting thoughtful and well-considered replies to your many, many PMs. I was happy to do it to help out a fellow forum member.


No offense meant; it's just you get on me regularly for deliberating about gear.

Second: To be accurate, I don't get on you for deliberating about gear, my consistent advice to you has been not to over-deliberate to the extent that you lose out on a great opportunity, exactly the same advice as Jim gave you.


And <SNIP>...there's NO difference whether I pick a PV-15, ET2, or ET3; just get something with a Champagne faceplate. Well, I'm sorry...that sounds just, plain silly.

The third fact is that, as above, you're misrepresenting what I said and placing it out of context.

I did not simply suggest, "Just pick one or pick something with a champagne faceplate". What I actually said was that all of the choices you were considering were excellent preamps (and they are), and you couldn't go wrong on any of them, and this is the key point, to pick the one that you thought represented the best VALUE for you from the choices you presented.

That's completely different than just saying "Pick something with a champagne faceplate".

Fourth: Upon considered reflection of your needs, I then also wrote you another message and said that given that a Premier 17 was likely your first choice, to go with an ET3 because I had heard one and it was it was the closest-sounding preamp to the Pr17 that I had heard, and there was always have the Teflon cap upgrade path available to you in the future.

Here's the last fact: If you don't want my take, opinion, etc., nothing is stopping you from not asking for it.

[Masterlu]

Just adding my opinion...

http://www.katsujin.org/images/tsgLogo.jpg

;)

[jaxwired]

Don't know why anyone would buy either the ET2 or ET3 with the ET4 coming out now. In fact, based on the new Kevlar caps, seems like a no brainer to wait.

[CDLehner]

Don't know why anyone would buy either the ET2 or ET3 with the ET4 coming out now. In fact, based on the new Kevlar caps, seems like a no brainer to wait.

Is this a joke? Is there really an ET4 coming out; when?

[jaxwired]

Now see, my dad always told me, if you have to explain a joke, it aint funny. Yet I keep trying. : )

[cmalak]

Is this a joke? Is there really an ET4 coming out; when?

CD...not sure if you saw but there is an ET3 that was just listed in the For Sale section of AA. You might want to check it out.

[CDLehner]

Now see, my dad always told me, if you have to explain a joke, it aint funny. Yet I keep trying. : )

Let me explain comedy to you Jax; it's only funny if everyone can get the POV...lol. IDK if an ET4 is around the corner. But you're right; good stuff.

[Rayooo]

Don't know why anyone would buy either the ET2 or ET3 with the ET4 coming out now. In fact, based on the new Kevlar caps, seems like a no brainer to wait.

your new preamp would not only sound good, it really could save your life. :D

[CDLehner]

FWIW...I bought an ET2.

[Joe Appierto]

FWIW...I bought an ET2.

Enjoy and best of luck with it! Have you taken delivery yet?

[CDLehner]

Enjoy and best of luck with it! Have you taken delivery yet?

Should be here in time for weekend listening Joe.

[joeinid]

FWIW...I bought an ET2.

:banana:

Congratulations! Keep us updated.

[Pider]

FWIW...I bought an ET2.

Congratulations! Looking forward to your report.

[jimtranr]

Congratulations, CD. Will be interested in your assessment.

[Rafale]

FWIW...I bought an ET2.

CD congrats on your ET2, very fine underated preamp indeed...:thumbsup:
:tresbon:

[Briz Vegaas]

Oh no, that's a mistake, don't pick that one!!!

You will regret your decision after reading the first reviews of the ET4 with Kevlar caps, it will be a giant killer.

It doesn't concern me as my speakers already have Kevlar midrange drivers. Everyone knows you have to mix Kevlar and Teflon to get the slickest sounds. Teflon for speed and kevlar for dodging bullets.

Just messing with ya

Enjoy your new pre.

[dpod4]

Oh no, that's a mistake, don't pick that one!!!

You will regret your decision after reading the first reviews of the ET4 with Kevlar caps, it will be a giant killer.

It doesn't concern me as my speakers already have Kevlar midrange drivers. Everyone knows you have to mix Kevlar and Teflon to get the slickest sounds. Teflon for speed and kevlar for dodging bullets.

Just messing with ya

Enjoy your new pre.

And don't forget the new and improved quantum tunneling !!

[cmalak]

Enjoy the new preamp CD :thumbsup:

[skroudo]

I'm running the ET3 with the Classic 60 SE, the sound is warm and beautiful full with details, I love my ET3.

[CDLehner]

Thanks guys. I'll post some comments shortly...but right now I just want to listen! But a quick question first:

first C-J pre-amp...what's the best way to handle phase-inversion? My mf-2500a is not likely a "second" inversion, right? So I know to switch +/- speaker terminals...but only at speakers, amp, or both?

Thanks. More shortly!

[Joe Appierto]

Thanks guys. I'll post some comments shortly...but right now I just want to listen! But a quick question first:

first C-J pre-amp...what's the best way to handle phase-inversion? My mf-2500a is not likely a "second" inversion, right? So I know to switch +/- speaker terminals...but only at speakers, amp, or both?

Thanks. More shortly!

Switch them at either the amp or speakers but not both. If you were to switch at both ends the phase inversion would remain.

The only phase inverting c-j amp is the Premier 350 so you do need to reverse the connections.

[CDLehner]

Switch them at either the amp or speakers but not both. If you were to switch at both ends the phase inversion would remain.

The only phase inverting c-j amp is the Premier 350 so you do need to reverse the connections.

Did a little Google-ing; thanks Joe.

[ronenash]

Switch them at either the amp or speakers but not both. If you were to switch at both ends the phase inversion would remain.

The only phase inverting c-j amp is the Premier 350 so you do need to reverse the connections.

At least the CA200 is also phase inverting. Maybe a few of the MF series amps as well.

[Joe Appierto]

At least the CA200 is also phase inverting. Maybe a few of the MF series amps as well.

I was going by what conrad-johnson has in their FAQ section of their website which states:

"Q. How do I know if my conrad-johnson component is phase inverting?
A. Phase information on conrad-johnson products is in all but the earliest conrad-johnson owner’s manuals (PV1,PV2, PV3, MV45 and MV75). Early conrad-johnson preamplifiers were phase correct (with the exceptions of the PV3 and the PV4 which inverted phase of line-level inputs). From the PV7 and the Premier 7 on, all conrad-johnson brand preamplifiers (both tube and solid-state) have been phase inverting in the line-stage. All three pre-preamplifiers (HV1, HV2 and Premier Six) were phase inverting. All conrad-johnson power amplifiers, tube and solid-state, are phase correct except the Premier 350."

I wasn't able to find anything on their site about the CA200 which is an integrated amp and I think they refer to it as a "control amplifier." I'm sure you're correct about it inverting phase, they should find a home for it on their website.

[ronenash]

Had the CA200 and the manual clearly states is phase invertin Its basically a scaled down version of the Pr350.

I guess all other SS amps are non phase inverting. I know my Motif does not invert phase.

[jimtranr]

My MF2500 doesn't invert phase. So with my p-i'ing PR17LS I simply reverse the speaker leads.

[Rafale]

It is necessary to try both positions and to listen, because you cannot be certain about the phase of all the elements of the system.
From CJ manual : If you system has an odd number of inversions, for ex if the preamplifier is the only phase inverting unit in the chain, then you must add one phase inversion ie reversing + and - connections to the speakers. But if you are not sure about the phase of every piece in your system, you can establish correct absolute phase by careful listening, whe the system is in correct phase transients will be cleaner and more sharply defined, the effect is specially apperent on plucked string sounds.

[Coppy]

Had the CA200 and the manual clearly states is phase invertin Its basically a scaled down version of the Pr350.

I guess all other SS amps are non phase inverting. I know my Motif does not invert phase.

Well thanks Guys... I had forgotten my P350 was phase inverting. So it's now time to get it out again. Got to remember that after Mr. GAT not to reverse the speaker leads as I do on the LP140s. Nice reason to put in listening rotation again.:music:

Bob

[Rafale]

ET250s is phase inverting too:yes:

[CDLehner]

So…my thoughts about the new ET2 are curious. I have to admit…initially, I was disappointed; really disappointed. Other than my speakers, I think this is the most I have ever dropped on a piece of gear; and it’s just so highly thought of, and quite frankly…looked and felt like a million bucks. I guess I couldn’t help but have expectations that it would just knock my socks off, right out of the box.

Needless to say, it didn’t; in fact…maybe only by comparison to my Belles 21a (which is a damn fine unit in its own right)…it felt “dull”, “lifeless”, “laid-back”... “rolled-off” even. Yikes; what had I done?

It was initially hooked up to my Belles 150a Ref v2, so I thought maybe that was the culprit. I quickly switched over to the mf-2500a, and that was a little better...because I find that amp to be a little “better”; but it still under-whelmed me. My mind started reeling; what was I going to do...keep the 21a? Did that mean I should keep the 150a Ref v2 to mate with it? Maybe go a different direction altogether? I’ve never tried BAT, and I’ve been curious; etc, etc.

I decided to take a deep breath, and step away. When I came back later, I tried my best to set expectations aside...and really listen. I threw a LOT of individual tracks at it. What initially seemed “dull”, was just “relaxed”. What was at first blush “lifeless”, was “musical”. It really was engaging; it was just so easy to listen to. Sure...it didn’t sparkle quite like the 21a, a particular strong suit of that unit. But the mids and overall presentation was to die for. I wanted to hear what came next, and almost no track...even some real lo-fi clunkers, that I just love...sounded bad. It’s kinda like the comparison I just made about C1s against 25s; the 25s...by comparison...are like a Corvette. Lots of speed and flash, but not a lot of refinement and style (sorry Corvette owners...lol).

The ET2 is refined...and it takes some getting used to. I know it sounds like I’m trying to talk myself into liking it, but I’m not; PC will tell ya...I’ll swap gear with the best of them. I bought at a good price, and I have no doubt I could get my money back...and maybe even then some. No, it’s just when I really stopped and listened, I was totally into the music; and isn’t that what a system is supposed to deliver. Not to marvel over the highs, or even any particular thing...have any particular thing draw attention to itself; but rather for the music to just sound great and keep you enthralled?

So you could say the ET2 grew on me; and while the jury is still in deliberations...I think I’ve found a keeper. As I told a friend; the fit, finish, and pedigree of C-J...it’s the kind of piece you put in your will! lol

I'll give it a bit more time, and see if it really settles in.

[Puma Cat]

Coupla points to consider:

1) It may be it's not fully burned in yet...did the seller provide any estimate of the amount of time it was used prior to selling? If it does contain Teflon caps, those can take an inordinately long time to burn in (>600 hrs).

2) I've noticed that even a non-Teflon capped C-J tube component, e.g. my Premier 17, can take 3-4 days to "re burn-in" if it has not been used, even for as short a time as two weeks. I've noticed this with both my C-J preamps...they need a few days playing real music through to get back up to speed. The longer the component has been sitting unused the longer it will take to re-burn in. The same is true of cables....this is why Audioquest has a line of cables with a battery to keep them burned in all the time.

I usually leave them on 24/7 for three days or so once a particular unit goes back in the system to "re burn-in". The input tubes are actually very long-lived in preamps, so leaving them on for a few days straight will not really shorten their lifetime.

3) My C-J preamps need a good solid hour to warm up....when the CT-5 gets there it's like throwing a switch.

FWIW, I also noticed this with my S3.4s, too, as they had been sitting idle for some no. of months before I bought them. It took them a good two weeks to re-open up....

[CDLehner]

Coupla points to consider:

1) It may be it's not fully burned in yet...did the seller provide any estimate of the amount of time it was used prior to selling? If it does contain Teflon caps, those can take an inordinately long time to burn in (>600 hrs).

2) I've noticed that even a non-Teflon capped C-J tube component, e.g. my Premier 17, can take 3-4 days to "re burn-in" if it has not been used, even for as short a time as two weeks. I've noticed this with both my C-J preamps...they need a few days playing real music through to get back up to speed. The longer the component has been sitting unused the longer it will take to re-burn in. The same is true of cables....this is why Audioquest has a line of cables with a battery to keep them burned in all the time.

I usually leave them on 24/7 for three days or so once a particular unit goes back in the system to "re burn-in". The input tubes are actually very long-lived in preamps, so leaving them on for a few days straight will not really shorten their lifetime.

3) My C-J preamps need a good solid hour to warm up....when the CT-5 gets there it's like throwing a switch.

FWIW, I also noticed this with my S3.4s, too, as they had been sitting idle for some no. of months before I bought them. It took them a good two weeks to re-open up....

I thought of all of that Stephen. I'll have to ask the seller about the hours logged, and how long since he had juice coursing through the unit...lol. I don't think the ET2 has Teflon caps. I talked to Ed, and fwiw he said Teflon caps for a PV-15 are ~$500, for the ET2 ~$600...and the SE upgrade for the ET3 is $2k. When I asked why the SE upgrade was so much more than just caps for the other units, he said because the ET2 already has some other premium parts; Vishay resistors and such. I guess the stock ET3 does not. That's one of the factors that swayed my deicsion.

At the very least, we know that the pre-amp was dormant for the few days of shipping...and the rest of my system as well, since I was waiting on the ET2. I'm sure all of that contributed some; but I think it was mostly just the way the C-J doesn't hit you over the head with its sound.

If you don't listen deeper, you might think of it as "dull"; but as I said, if you really listen...you'll see it's every bit as detailed as a pre with more pronounced highs (like the 21a), without drawing attention to the top-end. Then it excels in the mids, and if there's any weakness...it is maybe a touch soft in the bass (I can't help but wonder if this pre-amp would have tamed my 25s nicely...but I am perfectly ecstatic with the C1 Sigs). The best stuff I heard last night, was some swingin' Jazz on Linn Radio. Female and Male vocals are also luscious; it Rocks a little soft, but I think that's a trade-off I can live with.

[jimtranr]

CD, I second Stephen's comments on the "re-burn" time after my Premier 17 has been off for a while, so I wouldn't be surprised if that applies to the ET2 as well (nor am I surprised by the apparent synergy with the 2500A).

Keep us posted if you have any additional impressions.

[dpod4]

What I love about my CJ amp is it doesn't hit you in the face with ultra resolution. It is highly resolving but easy to listen to. My VAC amp strikes me as more transparent out of the gate but with that comes a little more stridency and on some recordings ....glare. There is every amount and bit of detail and dynamics on Pr 350 just not in your face. I count that as supremely musical and easy to listen to. Sounds like it is a CJ trait.

[ronenash]

I thought of all of that Stephen. I'll have to ask the seller about the hours logged, and how long since he had juice coursing through the unit...lol. I don't think the ET2 has Teflon caps. I talked to Ed, and fwiw he said Teflon caps for a PV-15 are ~$500, for the ET2 ~$600...and the SE upgrade for the ET3 is $2k. When I asked why the SE upgrade was so much more than just caps for the other units, he said because the ET2 already has some other premium parts; Vishay resistors and such. I guess the stock ET3 does not. That's one of the factors that swayed my deicsion.

At the very least, we know that the pre-amp was dormant for the few days of shipping...and the rest of my system as well, since I was waiting on the ET2. I'm sure all of that contributed some; but I think it was mostly just the way the C-J doesn't hit you over the head with its sound.

If you don't listen deeper, you might think of it as "dull"; but as I said, if you really listen...you'll see it's every bit as detailed as a pre with more pronounced highs (like the 21a), without drawing attention to the top-end. Then it excels in the mids, and if there's any weakness...it is maybe a touch soft in the bass (I can't help but wonder if this pre-amp would have tamed my 25s nicely...but I am perfectly ecstatic with the C1 Sigs). The best stuff I heard last night, was some swingin' Jazz on Linn Radio. Female and Male vocals are also luscious; it Rocks a little soft, but I think that's a trade-off I can live with.

The ET3 SE upgrade is more expensive because you replace the entire back panel of the preamp which now will include the same connectors as the ET5 and GAT. Also the entire volume control board needs to be re-built with Vishay resistors.
The SE upgrade to the ET3 is a real major one. At the end of the day is you buy an ET3 and upgrade later to the SE version you only end up paying $500 more than if you bought the ET3SE to begin with.

[CDLehner]

So...I'm mulling over two things:

1. I need to decide whether it's worth having my mf-2500a on the bench for a once-over. Remember, I need to get that new top-plate anyway. Ed says ~$50 plus s&h, so I thought maybe I'd just send the unit in for a once-over...and since it's going to cost me some s&h for the top-plate anyway, kill two birds with one stone and have it come back with the new skin...lol

Ed says he hasn't heard of issues with the 2250 and 2500 electrolytic caps "drying out", the way they have in some older models; but I'm the kind of fella who would rest easier with a clean bill-of-health nonetheless. $96/hour, and Ed says likely 1 hour...no more than 1.5. Worth the ~$100-150 for the bench time?

2. $600 for Teflon caps in the ET2? PC says be prepared for some time in hell...so I'm not talking right away; I just got the damn thing...lol. But, how dramatic a difference can I expect, and is that worth around 6-hunee?

[ronenash]

So...I'm mulling over two things:

Ed says he hasn't heard of issues with the 2250 and 2500 electrolytic caps "drying out", the way they have in some older models; but I'm the kind of fella who would rest easier with a clean bill-of-health nonetheless. $96/hour, and Ed says likely 1 hour...no more than 1.5. Worth the ~$100-150 for the bench time?

2. $600 for Teflon caps in the ET2? PC says be prepared for some time in hell...so I'm not talking right away; I just got the damn thing...lol. But, how dramatic a difference can I expect, and is that worth around 6-hunee?

I agree that the elecrolytics in you MF2500 are probably still going stong.

As for the ET2 teflon caps break in, with a preamp it is not that much of a problem since you can leave the preamp working with music (radio or MP3 player) while it is connected to a power amp for 3-4 weeks and you will finish the break in.

[Coppy]

Well thanks Guys... I had forgotten my P350 was phase inverting. So it's now time to get it out again. Got to remember that after Mr. GAT not to reverse the speaker leads as I do on the LP140s. Nice reason to put in listening rotation again.:music:

Bob

Here's an important update for other Premier 350 owners. I took Ron's comment about his CA200 being a scaled down version of a P350 and being phase inverting to mean that my P350 was phase inverting. :no: Well, I got it fired up again today only to notice the base sounded funny. So... checked the manual and it is NOT phase inverting. Switched the speaker connections back and now all is well again with the base output and sound.

[dpod4]

Here's an important update for other Premier 350 owners. I took Ron's comment about his CA200 being a scaled down version of a P350 and being phase inverting to mean that my P350 was phase inverting. :no: Well, I got it fired up again today only to notice the base sounded funny. So... checked the manual and it is NOT phase inverting. Switched the speaker connections back and now all is well again with the base output and sound.

??????
CJ told me it (350) was phase inverting.

[sleepysurf]

I also have a Premier 350, and on page 6 of the Owners Manual, it states that it IS Phase Inverting.

[CDLehner]

Well now...that begs a question; a few actually. A...why does C-J invert to begin with? I can only assume there's a sonic reason??

And B...can anyone recommend a test track to check for absolute phase? I don't mean plucked strings, and all that jazz...because I think this latest exchange shows it's not so easy to detect maybe; but more like a test track, that makes it real straight-forward?

I know my ET2 inverts...but who even knows what else might in the chain (see question A...why does C-J have to do it anyway...lol)

[dpod4]

simpler circuitry sometimes calls for it. My VAC preamp does the same thing from the RCA outputs. Nice thing about CJ is if you have a phase inverting preamp that feeds a phase inverting amp, it all cancels out and speaker leads can stay the same.

[CDLehner]

simpler circuitry sometimes calls for it. My VAC preamp does the same thing from the RCA outputs. Nice thing about CJ is if you have a phase inverting preamp that feeds a phase inverting amp, it all cancels out and speaker leads can stay the same.

But not all C-J amps are PI (like my mf-2500a evidently).

[Coppy]

Looks like we are all correct. Page six of the manual does indeed say the amp is phase inverting. The specification page at the end says the amp is phase correct. Go figure. Guess Ed, Lew and I need to have a conversation. I swear mine sounds better using the phase correct connections. Think I'll CAREFULLY switch them back again for another listen. I'll give the fellows a call tomorrow and report the results.

:icon_thumbsdown:

Bob

[dpod4]

Looks like we are all correct. Page six of the manual does indeed say the amp is phase inverting. The specification page at the end says the amp is phase correct. Go figure. Guess Ed, Lew and I need to have a conversation. I swear mine sounds better using the phase correct connections. Think I'll CAREFULLY switch them back again for another listen. I'll give the fellows a call tomorrow and report the results.

:icon_thumbsdown:

Bob

I just checked my manual. Page six says it is phase inverting. Page five with same exact formatting and header says it is phase correct. Now I am confused. I need to swap cables to hear what my ears say. Eager to hear Coppy's assessment.

[ronenash]

The Premier 350 IS phase inverting.

Now for the reason... and without becoming too technical, every voltage amplification stage inverts phase. To keep the amp design as simple as possible CJ choose to use only one voltage amplification stage in their preamps (for years now) and in their latest SS power amp (Pr350, CA200, ET250). By this they are getting a results which is more transparent and true to the source. I have heard Lew once said in an interview that when they design an amplifier they start removing un-necessary part until the sound quality is degraded. That's when they know they have reached the absolute minimum number of part in the signal path. Once that is done they make sure the remaining part are of the best quality available to them at the time.
In short, this is what makes their amps so special.

Hope this clarifies things somewhat.

[dpod4]

to my ears, the CJ Pr350 is phase INVERTING.

[prith]

Hi!
I am waiting for the ET3 Phone & Classic 60! THese will go with my Harbeth Super HL5 speakers.

[Coppy]

Okay folks... here's the latest official from c-j. Jeff is their technical Guru... he tests and burns in all their upper end products and does the upgrades we love so much:


Hi Bob --

Very nice chatting with you!

I have determined that the Premier 350 does invert absolute phase.

The statement is on page 6 of the newer owner's manual, which I will send to you
as soon as I remember how to do it.

I have also confirmed from Jeff that all PR350s are like that; which is to say, the earlier
units were NOT phase correct. The only update was the fuse that I mentioned.

Best regards,
ed

[ronenash]

Hi!
I am waiting for the ET3 Phone & Classic 60! THese will go with my Harbeth Super HL5 speakers.

Great setup. I am sure they will make your Harbeth sing like never before. Just be sure to give them 100-200 hours of break in time.

Enjoy!

[joeinid]

Hi!
I am waiting for the ET3 Phone & Classic 60! THese will go with my Harbeth Super HL5 speakers.

Congratulations! and :welcome2.:Welcome!

[jimtranr]

Hi!
I am waiting for the ET3 Phone & Classic 60! THese will go with my Harbeth Super HL5 speakers.

Congratulations, prith, and welcome aboard. And be sure to let us know what you hear once your ET3 and Classic 60 are up, running, and burned in.

[dpod4]

Okay folks... here's the latest official from c-j. Jeff is their technical Guru... he tests and burns in all their upper end products and does the upgrades we love so much:


Hi Bob --

Very nice chatting with you!

I have determined that the Premier 350 does invert absolute phase.

The statement is on page 6 of the newer owner's manual, which I will send to you
as soon as I remember how to do it.

I have also confirmed from Jeff that all PR350s are like that; which is to say, the earlier
units were NOT phase correct. The only update was the fuse that I mentioned.

Best regards,
ed
Thanks for letting us know, Coppy! Much appreciated! Darrin

[CDLehner]

Okay folks... here's the latest official from c-j. Jeff is their technical Guru... he tests and burns in all their upper end products and does the upgrades we love so much:


Hi Bob --

Very nice chatting with you!

I have determined that the Premier 350 does invert absolute phase.

The statement is on page 6 of the newer owner's manual, which I will send to you
as soon as I remember how to do it.

I have also confirmed from Jeff that all PR350s are like that; which is to say, the earlier
units were NOT phase correct. The only update was the fuse that I mentioned.

Best regards,
ed

Bob...any chance at all mf-2500a is? Thanks.

[jwhite613]

prith... Welcome To AA!!!


:welcome2.:

[Coppy]

Bob...any chance at all mf-2500a is? Thanks.

Used to own one but don't know anymore. Nice, solid amplifier.
It's warm here tomorrow so I'm off to golf about 9:30 Eastern. Ed doesn't get in until late morning but I'll send him a note and let you know. You could give him a call as well...they're number is 703-698-8581 and if he doesn't answer the phone his direct extension is 302.

By the way, which is the right side of the Chesapeake Bay?

Bob

[jimtranr]

Bob...any chance at all mf-2500a is? Thanks.

My 2500's phase correct (so says Page 6 of the manual). Since the A "mod" is actually a parts upgrade, I suspect your 2500A is also phase correct (i.e., it doesn't invert phase).

[CDLehner]

My 2500's phase correct (so says Page 6 of the manual). Since the A "mod" is actually a parts upgrade, I suspect your 2500A is also phase correct (i.e., it doesn't invert phase).

I suspect as well; but a fella can't be too sure about such things. :thumbsup:

[chessman]

prith, welcome aboard! :wave:

[prith]

Thank you! You do have an impressive list of components!

[CDLehner]

I see the ET-3 guys seem to do a good bit of tube-rolling. It appears the ET-2...with its "limited" 8080...allows far fewer options. This leads me to still be intrigued by the ET-3.

Still no one who can stack them up, side-by-side? Will I be the first one to try both? :D

The ET-3 has a 6922? Lots of options to choose from there?

[Joe Appierto]

I see the ET-3 guys seem to do a good bit of tube-rolling. It appears the ET-2...with its "limited" 8080...allows far fewer options. This leads me to still be intrigued by the ET-3.

Still no one who can stack them up, side-by-side? Will I be the first one to try both? :D

The ET-3 has a 6922? Lots of options to choose from there?

Well, I can address the last two questions. The ET3 uses a single 6922 in its line stage and if you get it with the phono stage, then 3 12AX7s for the high output (MC) or 2 12AX7 plus 1 12AU7 for the low output (MM) phono stage.

The 6922 is part of the 6DJ8/6922/6H23/7308 family and some of us have used the 7DJ8, too. There are scores of different tubes across these varieties. And especially since it only uses 1, jeez, you could go to town.

[Rayooo]

When I owned a Classic SE..and wanted to try some tube rolling, I had few options being it was 8080 based. OTOH, with my ET3SE and ultimately ET5, there are dozens of 6922 options from dirt cheap all the way up and beyond crazy expensive.

[ronenash]

Appart from looks the ET3 (and the SE version espcially) is a significantly better preamp. With the tube rolling options of the ET3 it make it a no brainer.
I was not a big fan of NOS tubes until recently but tried the Matsushita 7DJ8 in my ET3SE after reading very favourable reviews of this tube and I must say it makes a big difference over the stock EH tube.

[Puma Cat]

Appart from looks the ET3 (and the SE version espcially) is a significantly better preamp. With the tube rolling options of the ET3 it make it a no brainer.
I was not a big fan of NOS tubes until recently but tried the Matsushita 7DJ8 in my ET3SE after reading very favourable reviews of this tube and I must say it makes a big difference over the stock EH tube.

Ron, are you referring to the ET3 being a better preamp than the ET2?

[ronenash]

Ron, are you referring to the ET3 being a better preamp than the ET2?

Yes, based on my experience. Less cost in chassis design more in parts quality. The et3 also includes a more modern circuit design based on the GAT.

[Puma Cat]

Thanks, I thought that's what you meant. When I heard the ET3 (with a McCormack DNA amp, BTW), I thought it sounded very good and reminded me a lot of my Premier 17.

[Rayooo]

Yes, based on my experience. Less cost in chassis design more in parts quality. The et3 also includes a more modern circuit design based on the GAT.

:thumbsup:

When I made an inquiry to CJ a couple years back relating to moving from ClassicSE to ET2. They once again they came through with honesty, as at the time the ET3 was not out yet. The point was made that the weak point in ET2 is the burr-brown volume control mechanism...stating that the the stepped relay control in newer units was preferable.

[ronenash]

I have had many cj preamps in my system and must say that there is a noticeable improvement with every new generation.
I think Lew also mentions this in his interview to TAS in their May/June issue.

[CDLehner]

Yes, based on my experience. Less cost in chassis design more in parts quality. The et3 also includes a more modern circuit design based on the GAT.

Rone, my only contention with that argument is I believe the msrp on the ET-2 was $3800; whereas the ET-3 is $2500. So the argument could be made that extra $1300 accounts for the fancy case...or lack thereof...and that both units use parts of the same relative value.

I created this thread, because I'm considering the ET-3 to replace my ET-2. My only concern is, sometimes...when C-J guys say it sounds "better", they mean more "tube-y". I'm not looking for extra warmth; in fact, I thought the ET-2 was plenty warm...but still with good detail of course; until a new DAC made me realize my old one was veiling the sound a bit (and that's the first time I've EVER used "like a veil was lifted", in reference to a new piece of gear...lol).

I'm REALLY happy with the sound of my system right now; I'm only considering the ET-3 for the tube-rolling flexibility. If it was "better" to boot, that would be icing on the cake, of course; but I'm hesitant to mess with a good thing.

[Puma Cat]

I'm REALLY happy with the sound of my system right now; I'm only considering the ET-3 for the tube-rolling flexibility. If it was "better" to boot, that would be icing on the cake, of course; but I'm hesitant to mess with a good thing.

I think that's great, CD. It's really nice to be there. I feel the same way about my system....

[ronenash]

I agree with PC. If you are happy with your system, why change?
I do not think the ET3 is more tubey based on my experience. But if you want even less tubey and more detailed and transparent sound the ET3SE is the one to choose.

[jimtranr]

While I don't mean to pile on, CD, count me in as a +1 on PC's and ronenash's "if you're happy with it" comments. Your posts indicate that you've given a lot of thought to--and absorbed more than a little feedback in--getting yourself to where you are now. So why not enjoy it?

But then you knew I'd say that. :D

[Coppy]

Rone, my only contention with that argument is I believe the msrp on the ET-2 was $3800; whereas the ET-3 is $2500. So the argument could be made that extra $1300 accounts for the fancy case...or lack thereof...and that both units use parts of the same relative value.

I created this thread, because I'm considering the ET-3 to replace my ET-2. My only concern is, sometimes...when C-J guys say it sounds "better", they mean more "tube-y". I'm not looking for extra warmth; in fact, I thought the ET-2 was plenty warm...but still with good detail of course; until a new DAC made me realize my old one was veiling the sound a bit (and that's the first time I've EVER used "like a veil was lifted", in reference to a new piece of gear...lol).

I'm REALLY happy with the sound of my system right now; I'm only considering the ET-3 for the tube-rolling flexibility. If it was "better" to boot, that would be icing on the cake, of course; but I'm hesitant to mess with a good thing.

CD...

You may find that tube rolling is not all it's cracked up to be. After trying some well regarded NOS tubes in my GAT, I'm back to my two best EH6922s. The amplifiers were built for and voiced with the tubes they supplied so it may be hard to improve much on a quality stock tube. I found it a little like changing cables... not sure which ones really improved the sound vs. just different. Now, on the other hand, the SE version of a c-j amp is always better.

Enjoy,
Bob

[CDLehner]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, I am plenty happy right now...which is why I am proceeding ever so cautiously...if at all. I guess the way I see the ET-2 vs. ET-3, is at the very least...they're a tie. I certainly wouldn't expect the ET-3 to sound any worse (and if it did, well then...I'd could always sell it to someone who didn't think so).

If I found them to sound equally good...but the ET-3 offered the tube-rolling flexibility; however insignificantly beneficial...it might tip the scale ever so slightly. And if OTOH, I found the ET-3 to be surprisingly superior in some respect; well then, that would be icing on the cake and a rather easy choice.

Again...just thinking out loud, and weighing my options (and wallet).

[Rafale]

CD...

You may find that tube rolling is not all it's cracked up to be. After trying some well regarded NOS tubes in my GAT, I'm back to my two best EH6922s. The amplifiers were built for and voiced with the tubes they supplied so it may be hard to improve much on a quality stock tube. I found it a little like changing cables... not sure which ones really improved the sound vs. just different. Now, on the other hand, the SE version of a c-j amp is always better.

Enjoy,
Bob

wise :yes:

[CDLehner]

I see the ET-3 guys seem to do a good bit of tube-rolling. It appears the ET-2...with its "limited" 8080...allows far fewer options. This leads me to still be intrigued by the ET-3.

Still no one who can stack them up, side-by-side? Will I be the first one to try both? :D

The ET-3 has a 6922? Lots of options to choose from there?

Looks like it's so. :thumbsup:

[Rayooo]

all I can say is:
If I owned an ET2 today....I'd be chomping at the bit to move to a 6922 and relay controlled volume setting unit. like ET3, ET5, GAT.

whether is was a smart move on my part, or yet another one of a thousand+ dumb moves, I discounted the ET2 immediately due to it's "chip based" analog switch volume control...and held on to my ClassicSE until ET3SE hit the street.

I had (have?) a long standing hatred of what we called at Ampex "IC analog switches". :yuck: Which I fully accept is rooted in urban legend and superstition more than reality.

having said all that, I'd love to hear YOUR report :D:D on comparing ET3 to ET2. :yes:

[CDLehner]

all I can say is:
If I owned an ET2 today....I'd be chomping at the bit to move to a 6922 and relay controlled volume setting unit. like ET3, ET5, GAT.

whether is was a smart move on my part, or yet another one of a thousand+ dumb moves, I discounted the ET2 immediately due to it's "chip based" analog switch volume control...and held on to my ClassicSE until ET3SE hit the street.

I had (have?) a long standing hatred of what we called at Ampex "IC analog switches". :yuck: Which I fully accept is rooted in urban legend and superstition more than reality.

having said all that, I'd love to hear YOUR report :D:D on comparing ET3 to ET2. :yes:

Trust me; it'll be my pleasure :yes:

[Briz Vegaas]

CD...

You may find that tube rolling is not all it's cracked up to be. After trying some well regarded NOS tubes in my GAT, I'm back to my two best EH6922s. The amplifiers were built for and voiced with the tubes they supplied so it may be hard to improve much on a quality stock tube. I found it a little like changing cables... not sure which ones really improved the sound vs. just different. Now, on the other hand, the SE version of a c-j amp is always better.

Enjoy,
Bob

You feel that about cables. Gees. With all Nordost (PC, IC speaker) I found if you pay more you get a better cable. Thats how I ended up at the pointy end. There was never any doubt.

[turntable]

You feel that about cables. Gees. With all Nordost (PC, IC speaker) I found if you pay more you get a better cable. Thats how I ended up at the pointy end. There was never any doubt.

ditto, I also have all Nordost now and the synergy is wonderful!!

I am waiting on a 2nd used valhalla pc to arrive so I can put it on my tube phono stage. :thumbsup:

[turntable]

CD...

You may find that tube rolling is not all it's cracked up to be. After trying some well regarded NOS tubes in my GAT, I'm back to my two best EH6922s. The amplifiers were built for and voiced with the tubes they supplied so it may be hard to improve much on a quality stock tube. I found it a little like changing cables... not sure which ones really improved the sound vs. just different. Now, on the other hand, the SE version of a c-j amp is always better.

Enjoy,
Bob

Bob

What NOS tubes did you try?

I tried the Telefunken PCC-88's and Pope PCC-88's. the Tele for me was a clear winner - music is just clearer, better focused and better extension and control at both extremes

cheers

[CDLehner]

CD...

You may find that tube rolling is not all it's cracked up to be. After trying some well regarded NOS tubes in my GAT, I'm back to my two best EH6922s. The amplifiers were built for and voiced with the tubes they supplied so it may be hard to improve much on a quality stock tube. I found it a little like changing cables... not sure which ones really improved the sound vs. just different. Now, on the other hand, the SE version of a c-j amp is always better.

Enjoy,
Bob

I've have done some tube-rolling to this point; with my Belles 21A. I mostly agree with Bob, big picture; I find the differences in tubes to be rather subtle...by comparison...to say whole pieces of gear, certainly. Plus...changing out tubes, and listening for differences...does interfere with the listening process, much in the same way auditioning does.

That being said...I do hear differences, and I find that changes...at this level...are usually rather subtle anyway. Shades of improvement or preference is what we have. Besides...if I'm getting dialed-in on gear (and I am rather happy at the moment...save for this pre-amp shoot-out)...I have to have something to futz with...lol; what's a couple of boxes of 6922s going to harm? :D

[CDLehner]

ET-3 is due today; but as bad luck would have it, I'll be out of town on business until Friday :tears:

Oh well; at least I'll have it for a weekend of listening; uh...I mean burn-in. :thumbsup:

[ronenash]

CD, the none se version should not take very long to burn in. Just leave it on with with music playing for 4 days and it should be fully cooked.

I am sure you will enjoy this great preamp.

Keep us updated.

[CDLehner]

CD, the none se version should not take very long to burn in. Just leave it on with with music playing for 4 days and it should be fully cooked.

I am sure you will enjoy this great preamp.

Keep us updated.

Yeah; I've read ~40 hours is the magic number.

[CDLehner]

The eagle has landed...and has been streaming Linn Radio for about 10 hours now. I'll sit and listen tomorrow. :D

[CDLehner]

WoW! :thumbsup:

[ronenash]

WoW! :thumbsup:

I was kind of expecting this :yes:
Its going to get better still, much better.

[Puma Cat]

So, CD, how is the ET3 doing?

[CDLehner]

So, CD, how is the ET3 doing?

It's a really fine unit Stephen; I like it plenty :yes:

The ET-2 is built a helluva lot better; like a tank! But the ET-3 is striking a nice note with me. A touch more forward maybe...which makes it more lively at lower volumes; which I like. Little harsher perhaps, as the SPL climbs; or maybe that'll ease-up with break-in.

I'm pretty sold on the ET-3. :thumbsup:

[pstrisik]

It's a really fine unit Stephen; I like it plenty :yes:

The ET-2 is built a helluva lot better; like a tank! But the ET-3 is striking a nice note with me. A touch more forward maybe...which makes it more lively at lower volumes; which I like. Little harsher perhaps, as the SPL climbs; or maybe that'll ease-up with break-in.

I'm pretty sold on the ET-3. :thumbsup:

Three more weeks CD. Still finding it slightly harsh?

....... Peter

[CDLehner]

Three more weeks CD. Still finding it slightly harsh?

....... Peter


Peter, I'm sorry to say I've hardly had any time for critical listening lately. :icon_thumbsdown:

BUSY season for my line of work; maybe some day soon I can get back to it. :tears:

[pstrisik]

Peter, I'm sorry to say I've hardly had any time for critical listening lately. :icon_thumbsdown:

BUSY season for my line of work; maybe some day soon I can get back to it. :tears:

Absence makes the heart grow fonder! :yes:

[joeinid]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder! :yes:

Quite true :thumbsup:


:music:

[CDLehner]

Quite true :thumbsup:


:music:

I can only hope. Actually...it might be a great time to send my mf-2250a to Ed for a once-over.

I'd have to make-do with my "back-up" (David) Belles 150a Hot-Rod.

[joeinid]

David Belles makes great gear. You'll survive :)

[CDLehner]

David Belles makes great gear. You'll survive :)

Agreed :yes: