Understanding Premier 16, 17 & 18...

[slowGEEZR]

Does anyone here know the differences between the Premier 16, 17 and 18 preamps? Do they sound alike? As I understand it, they are all based on the ART preamp, correct? Thanks in advance, for your input.

[tima]

The Premier 16LS was indeed known as 'the baby ART' and it used the same composite triode architecture made up of combined sections of 3 6DJ8 (family) tubes per channel. The limited production two-chassis ART used 5 (i think, memory fluttering here) per channel. The 17LS was the little brother of the 16LS, same architecture but used 2 tubes per channel. Each of these models had a version 2 and I believe the 17LS2 was the first CJ preamp to use Teflon caps extensively.

Sound-wise the 16 was (and still is) a wonderful sounding preamp - same character as and close in ability to the ART. You'll get argument from some 17LS2 users that it was as good as the 16. Wes Phillips heard that similarity, but I never did. Regardless, either 16 or 17 is a classic - perhaps the last of the original golden era for CJ, though they did bring back the ART in later iteration and it was always on top of the 16/17/ART triumvirate. Relative price in descending order: ART, 16LS, 17LS - same for subsequent versions.

Plenty of reviews of these were written in their day.

The Premier 18LS was a solid state device not related to the others.

[Dj_AmTraX]

Thanks for the info. I thought eh 18LS was tubes.

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/CJPR18.jpg

[goone]

Had owned Pre 17 MK I, Pre 16 LS II, ET-5
Moving from pre 17 to 16 you will gain more details, bigger soundstage, dynamic more bottom end.

[turntable]

I have owned both the prem 16 series 1 & 2 as well as the ART.

The prem 16 sounds awesome, very similar to the ART but with less bass weight and a smaller soundstage. In some systems that may actually be preferable as it sounds a little more nimble.

cheers

[Puma Cat]

As most folks here now, I own the Premier 17LS (not the series 2 with Tefon caps) and I absolutely love it. As pointed out by others, the Pr16 and Pr17 are descended from the ground-breaking ART preamp, the only differences between them is in the power supply
"robustness" and the number of tubes that comprised the "composite triode"; but all share the same basic circuit design. More tubes in the Pr16 and ART gave a lower output impedance. Overall, I think that most folks that have owned one or more of this series would say they all sound very similar in overall character, just that as you go up the line from 17 to 16 to ART, you get even more of the good stuff you get with the 17.

The Premier 17, I think, is just a honey of a preamp. If there was one word I would use to characterize a Premier 17, that word would be "sweet"; not in the overly honeyed, syrupy way that C-J gear of the past is reputed to be, but just really sweet musically. Jimtranr here also has one.

I track the C-J ads on Audiogon almost daily, and Premier 17s sell faster than just about any other C-J preamp that gets listed; the folks that know, know what they are getting with Premier 17s.

Just give you an idea of how good the 17 is; when I heard the ET3 last year at my local dealer, it reminded me of my Pr17. I asked the dealer if he thought it was better than the Pr17 and he said, "No way." I then called Ed at C-J the following Monday and asked the same question, and he said, "No way". Just goes to show that the posts from the other Premier 16/17/ART owners here are spot on. The ART/Pr16/Pr17 were, and still are, wonderful preamps and still highly sought-after. If you're in the market for really nice preamp, and can find a nice Pr17, Pr17LS2, Pr16 or Pr16LS2, you would be very hard pressed to do better, especially at the price points they sell for used.

[slowGEEZR]

Thank you all very much for your replies. I'm taking my time, learning what I can about the various C-J amps and preamps out there.

[jimtranr]

I second Stephen's (Puma Cat) comments and consider my PR17LS a keeper in the most literal sense--which means that it will stick around as long as I do.

[Puma Cat]

I second Stephen's (Puma Cat) comments and consider my PR17LS a keeper in the most literal sense--which means that it will stick around as long as I do.

+1. I would never get rid of mine, either, even if I eventually ended up going all the way and getting a GAT (I'm NOT geting a GAT, guys, so don't go and get all excited! ;)). I'd just put the Pr17 into a second office or bedroom system. But I'll never part with it...

[Masterlu]

PC... Your New Aficionado Banner looks Great!

:thankyouspin:

[Puma Cat]

You're welcome, Ivan!

Cheers,
PC

[Rafale]

+1. I would never get rid of mine, either, even if I eventually ended up going all the way and getting a GAT (I'm NOT geting a GAT, guys, so don't go and get all excited! ;)). I'd just put the Pr17 into a second office or bedroom system. But I'll never part with it...

Hum...Never say never :yes:
Congratulations for your last acquisitions Stephen it seems that the economic climate gets free for you and it is magnificent for the future:thumbsup: