Ok, help me get the most out of my new phono stage

[two dot]

well... it looks like I made a bonehead move... not my first and not my last..

I bought a Conrad Johnson TEA-2 High Gain Phono Stage.

My plan was to mate this with my soon to be here CJ CA-200

Well it turns out the CJ phono stage is NOT a good match for any of my carts.

My 2M Black is way too high of output... I have a NIB Denon 103 that I think might be my best bet for this phono preamp.


Ideas? Suggestions??

[turntable]

Don't say I didn't tell you. :D

I do not believe 55db will be an optimal output for the denon 103 or the spu.

Buy a momc cart like a lyra delos or kleos. Ie over .45mv That will match fine

Only other sugestion, take it back and get a tea1. :thumbsup:

[two dot]

You did tell me...

I really hate that I didn't listen.

So your thoughts are that something in the .5mv range would work best?

[Puma Cat]

Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Koetsu Uruhsi Blue, Sumiko Palo Santos...

[Removed]

Your 2M black is a MM and you should be looking at a phono stage that provides a MM section with gain in the low 40s......your denon will need around 60-63db of gain or you will not be getting enough voltage to the cartridge......If you decide on keeping the TEA-2 then you need to look at cartridge around .8mv or higher and even then your somewhat under driving the cartridge.....IMO 55db of gain will not be enough for what was suggested by Turntable and PC.....

[f1 fan]

Damn the bad luck...

Dave

[Puma Cat]

Your 2M black is a MM and you should be looking at a phono stage that provides a MM section with gain in the low 40s......your denon will need around 60-63db of gain or you will not be getting enough voltage to the cartridge......If you decide on keeping the TEA-2 then you need to look at cartridge around .8mv or higher and even cartridge at under 1.0 mv will be somewhat under driven.....IMO 55db of gain will not be enough for what was suggested by Turntable and PC.....

Yeah, you're right, Jeff. I didn't realize the gain on the High Gain TEA-2 was so low, seems like a contradiction in terms. My EAR 834 has 70 dB on it MC circuit.

[Removed]

If Stephen was to keep the TEA-2 he is going to need a cartridge in the 1.2-1.5mv range, the problem is there are very few cartridges with those specs....he is better off dumping the unit he has and look for a 40/60 combo or there abouts.....

[Puma Cat]

Yup; a really odd gain spec for a phono stage.

[two dot]

****...

[Puma Cat]

Just looked it up on the C-J site:

"The high gain [55 dB] version is recommended for use with cartridges with a rated output of 1.0 mV or below."

:scratch2:

That ain't gonna cut it with my 0.2 mV Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, no way. Even 70dB from my EAR wasn't enough for that.

Seems like the only carts this would work with this would be the high output moving coils, like the Benz ACE high-outputs MCs, which I believe are 0.8 mV or thereabouts?

The other possibility would be a 1:30 step-up transformer.

[two dot]

Why would CJ produce this phono stage when so few carts match its spec.

I was wrongly informed that it was highly versatile...

My mistake.

[two dot]

Would sending back to CJ and having them take it to ow output be a good idea?

[Puma Cat]

Well, Stephen, I don't think you're to blame....I just read the C-J description, and I think it's misleading:
"The TEA-2 is available in high-gain (55 dB) and low gain (40 dB) versions to match a wide range of modern phono cartridges"

Huh?

Actually, it seems it's too low for most MMs in the low gain version (or at best, marginal) and too low for most MCs in the high-gain version.

Unless you do the calculations of the gain vs. the cartridge output carefully, you wouldn't realize that the high-gain version is really only good for carts in the 0.8 mV to 1.25 mV range, and as Jeff pointed out, there aren't too many of those, really.

[Puma Cat]

Would sending back to CJ and having them take it to ow output be a good idea?

If would be if you were willing to use a 1:30 step-up transformer with it; that would give you 70 dB: 40 from the phono stage and 30 from the SUT. That would work fine on 0.4-0.5 mV cartridges. 40dB is pretty dang low for MM gain, if you ask me. My EAR 834P is 60dB.

[turntable]

Two dot. 55db will be just fine in a cj system (which is high gain) and efficient speakers for .5 mv and above. Is it perfect, no but it will work better than you think.

I have owned the prem15 in past which has 55db gain. It was fine for .5mv lyra helikon, but you are limited in carts thou.

Why does cj make a phono stage with 55db gain. That is about the max gain for a pure tube phono and it is designed to be used with high gain cj pre amp 20 - 25db.
this is no different to arc ph7, 5 &8 which only has 58db. It is designed to be used,with their higher gain ls25,26 or,27

Trouble is your ca200 has a passive pre amp, so unsure how much usable gain you have.

[turntable]

If would be if you were willing to use a 1:30 step-up transformer with it; that would give you 70 dB: 40 from the phono stage and 30 from the SUT. That would work fine on 0.4-0.5 mV cartridges. 40dB is pretty dang low for MM gain, if you ask me. My EAR 834P is 60dB.

Agreed, a 20db step up will well with the 55db phono

[Puma Cat]

Two dot. 55db will be just fine in a cj system (which is high gain) and efficient speakers for .5 mv and above. Is it perfect, no but it will work better than you think.

I have owned the prem15 in past which has 55db gain. It was fine for .5mv lyra helikon, but you are limited in carts thou.

Why does cj make a phono stage with 55db gain. That is about the max gain for a pure tube phono and it is designed to be used with high gain cj pre amp 20 - 25db.
this is no different to arc ph7, 5 &8 which only has 58db. It is designed to be used,with their higher gain ls25,26 or,27

Trouble is your ca200 has a passive pre amp, so unsure how much usable gain you have.

Interesting. It wouldn't work well, then, with a C-J CT-5, which only has a 19 dB of gain!

[turntable]

Interesting. It wouldn't work well, then, with a C-J CT-5, which only has a 19 dB of gain!

smarty pants :laughin:

I think it may work just fine with the CT5, even thou that missing .8db gain might be needed :no:.

When I had the cj prem15 I actually bought a dynavector head amp, however with it , it then had too much gain for my XV-1 as my prem 16 was on about 10. then sold both and bought an pass Xono. :thumbsup:

[ronenash]

Based on my experiece for a 55db gain you will need a cartridge with .5 to 1mv output. Benz has some very nice cartridges in that range. Some of their middle class cartridges come in three versions (low/Med/High gain). The ACE is reported to be very good.

If you want to use it with your 2M you can send it to CJ and they will modify it to the low gain version.

[Puma Cat]

smarty pants :laughin:

When I had the cj prem15 I actually bought a dynavector head amp, however with it , it then had too much gain for my XV-1 as my prem 16 was on about 10.


My CT-5 goes to 11! :laughin:

It's like when you're already at 10, and you need extra 1, you know, to push through....

[Puma Cat]

smarty pants :laughin:

I think it may work just fine with the CT5, even thou that missing .8db gain might be needed :no:.

When I had the cj prem15 I actually bought a dynavector head amp, however with it , it then had too much gain for my XV-1 as my prem 16 was on about 10. then sold both and bought an pass Xono. :thumbsup:

Heard nothing but great things about the Pass Xono...

[Jerome W]

Choosing a phonostage with the right gain according to both the cart and the line preamp and a correct loading capability seems to be a full time job :D !

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[AudioNut]

Heard nothing but great things about the Pass Xono...

I've been using a Pass Xono for over 6 years with a variety of cartridges and have never felt the urge to change - which is highly unusual for me.

The Xono is fully adjustable for virtually all moving coil AND moving magnet cartridges. The only problem is that you have to take the top off to make adjustments. (no front panel switches or dials). After all these many years, though, I am completely happy with the sound and the adaptability of this two box unit.

And, they are available used at fairly reasonable prices.

[f1 fan]

My CT-5 goes to 11! :laughin:

It's like when you're already at 10, and you need extra 1, you know, to push through....

ROTFLMAO...

Dave

[two dot]

I have been using the TEA-2 with my 47 Labs Integrated. Not loving the results.

Perhaps it will mate much better with the CJ CA-200 that is supposed to arrive on Friday.

Anyone know what the gain on the CA-200 is ?

Thanks for all of the input.

And, yes, I agree with Jerome. Finding a phono stage with correct loading for a specific cartridge and amp is A FULL TIME JOB.

[Joe Appierto]

Anyone know what the gain on the CA-200 is ?



According to a post that John Lum has on his blog regarding the unit, the preamp portion has 0 gain and the amp has 35 db.

[Myles B. Astor]

well... it looks like I made a bonehead move... not my first and not my last..

I bought a Conrad Johnson TEA-2 High Gain Phono Stage.

My plan was to mate this with my soon to be here CJ CA-200

Well it turns out the CJ phono stage is NOT a good match for any of my carts.

My 2M Black is way too high of output... I have a NIB Denon 103 that I think might be my best bet for this phono preamp.


Ideas? Suggestions??

Can't cj set one of the two phono inputs for MM cartridges?

[two dot]

Can't cj set one of the two phono inputs for MM cartridges?

Myles,

I have the TEA-2. It only has ONE input and I chose the HIGH GAIN version thinking that it would be more suitable for low output MC carts.

I am trying to reserve judgement until I get the CA-200 and see how they mate together.

Anyone have experience with CJ customer service? I wonder if it worth a call to them?

[Rafale]

TEA2 high gain version was reviewed by Alan Sircom in HI-FI+ issue 70 with the Music Maker Classic cart (4mv outpout)
He recommended a step-up tranformer or the 40dB version for higher outpout cartridge in Dynavector, Lyra or Goldring range for example

[two dot]

Makes me wonder how it would handle the 5mv output of the Ortofon 2M Black

[Face]

Why can't more phono stages have the versatility of the Jolida JD-9?

http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/gi.mpl?u=32746&f=Jolida_JD9_settings.jpg