6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 / PCC88 for your cj pre amps

[turntable]

I think it is time for the 6922 thread and how they sound in your cj pre amp or amp vs the stk EH 6922 tubes from cj.


I am sure we will all learn from what each of us are using and useful to have everything in one thread.

[turntable]

I am using stk EH cj 6922's and I have tried JJ 6922's. The EH 6922 is very good imo and is quiet and neutral.
The JJ 6922's I have are a little rounder in the bass, relaxed in the treble and just a bit warmer all round. I prefer the EH 6922's in my system.

I just ordered from upscale audio

3 x Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8 - This is a 7 volt version of the super-expensive, impossible to find 6DJ8


3 x Philips Holland / Pope PCC88/7DJ8 - This is the same thing as an Amperex Bugle Boy.

Why did I order PCC88's. They are fully compatible with 6922 tubes and have a longer life. Telefunken and Amperex 6922's are a LOT more expensive.
Also my TW Acustik phono stage uses PCC88's, so opportunity to tube roll with two components.

I'll update how they sound after I receive them.

[Joe Appierto]

I think it is time for the 6922 thread and how they sound in your cj pre amp or amp vs the stk EH 6922 tubes from cj.


I am sure we will all learn from what each of us are using and useful to have everything in one thread.


My favorites in my c-j Premier 16LS2, pretty much in order (at least as of today):


1) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 (1960s)
2) Telefunken 6DJ8 (1968 military)
3) Telefunken PCC88 (1968 military)
4) Amperex 7308 green label
5) Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8

-------------------------------------------


c-j Premier 140 input tube (almost the same):


1) Amperex pinched waist 6922 PQ 1958 (USA)
2) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 (1960s)
3) Telefunken PCC88 (1968 military)
4) Amperex 7308 green label

[Puma Cat]

I'm using Ediswan CV2492s in my LP70S amp; they have a beautiful, textured midrange quality over the stock EH6922s while remaining extended at the frequency extremes. "Pungent" is the word that the guy from Upscale described for them. Also supposed to be very nice for the Premier 16/17 preamps.

[goone]

CJ Premier 16ls2 using amperex pq white label have tried siemen cca but prefer amperex
ET-5 siemen CCA
LP70S input driver telefunken 6dj8, output original Tungsol 6550 1960

[ronenash]

I try to avoid NOS tubes because of the hit and miss nature of using them. Out of the current production tubes I like the Gold Lion 6922 best. Detailed, slightly warm and extended at the extremes.

In power amps the input voltage gain tube will have the most effect on the sound.

[Puma Cat]

I try to avoid NOS tubes because of the hit and miss nature of using them. Out of the current production tubes I like the Gold Lion 6922 best. Detailed, slightly warm and extended at the extremes.

In power amps the input voltage gain tube will have the most effect on the sound.

So, Ron, have you had any time for form any impressions of the LP70S?

[Rafale]

I try to avoid NOS tubes because of the hit and miss nature of using them. Out of the current production tubes I like the Gold Lion 6922 best. Detailed, slightly warm and extended at the extremes.

In power amps the input voltage gain tube will have the most effect on the sound.

:yes:My quest for the Holy Grail stops with the acquisition of the EAT ECC88 selected, it is a quality alloy which make it specially remarkable tubes on my GAT
with 6 month guarentee included, will try on the ET250s...

[goone]

Rafale,
Have you tried any NOS before swapping out for EAT ECC88? and which one you would prefer?

[Rafale]

:no: just tried some Mullard Holland and Tesla BUT the EAT is so satisfactory in my ears which I does not feel any more the need to go to see somewhere else, I know besides that I shall always have the same quality with small risks of defect of reliability. I can besides go even farther with the Diamond version and it is an absolutely silent tube.

[turntable]

:no: just tried some Mullard Holland and Tesla BUT the EAT is so satisfactory in my ears which I does not feel any more the need to go to see somewhere else, I know besides that I shall always have the same quality with small risks of defect of reliability. I can besides go even farther with the Diamond version and it is an absolutely silent tube.

Diamond version? What do they have that the stadard EAT don't have? How much $$ are they compared to the normal $300 EAT.

Hopefully my Tele and Amperex PCC88's will quench my thirst :D Otherwise EAT might be coming :yes:

Philippe, how does it sound vs the stk EH tubes?

When I had the ART, 10 tubes stopped me buying anything. 2 is a lot easier to manage.

[Rafale]

Shane....i paid 114 euros each, and it is the best present which I made for my GAT.... dead quiet tubes with beautiful soundstage and transparency, for me NOS quality without the downsides, i had a bad experience recently with a Mullard Holland CV2492 in my ET250s....I believed that my speakers had exploded...
Tolerances and the selection is, I suppose, even stricter for the version diamond

The EAT ECC88 is a special quality double triode. The tube satisfies the specifications in accordance with MIL-E-1/1J168 (NAVY) from 18.6.1958.

Tight tolerances: In these tubes the tolerance of electrical ratings are reduced in comparision with standard tubes.

Vibration and shock proof: The tube withstands accelerationns of 2,5 g at 50Hz for lenghty periods and momentary shocks of 500g for short periods.

Cathode free from Interface: The cathode establishes no interface even in case where the heated tube is operated without plate current over lenghty periods.

[goone]

What is diamond version?

[Rafale]

What is diamond version?

More expansive version in relation with tighter selection i assume....don't know if anybody here already tried the diamonds

[goone]

Where can I find any info regarding the EAT diamond?

[Joe Appierto]

Where can I find any info regarding the EAT diamond?

I took a look at their website and the ECC88 tube is listed as their "Cool Valve" EAT ECC88 Cool Valve | Euro Audio Team (http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html) while their KT-88 is described as the "Diamond Valve" EAT KT88 Diamond Valve | Euro Audio Team (http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-kt88-diamond-valve-000011.html)

So, I'm not sure if they do have a Diamond version of the ECC88, at least according to their web site.

[Rafale]

Effectively it is not mentioned on their site but we have here an offer for two versions: diamond 150-160 euro selected 100-120 euro
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/phidelrv/L1020837.jpg
Eat, ECC 88 Diamond / Válvulas / Válvulas / SUPERSONIDO (http://www.supersonido.es/cas/site/productos-ficha.asp?id=6893)
Eat, ECC 88 Selected / Válvulas / Válvulas / SUPERSONIDO (http://www.supersonido.es/cas/site/productos-ficha.asp?id=6892)

[Joe Appierto]

Thank you, Philippe. I was unaware of the difference in gradings for the two tubes.

[Rafale]

my pleasure Joe, I have asked my seller about the Diamond version data sheet

[Puma Cat]

The EAT 6922s here are expensive...$225 each at Music Direct. I would need to spend $900 on tubes just for my Premier 17...

[Joe Appierto]

The EAT 6922s here are expensive...$225 each at Music Direct. I would need to spend $900 on tubes just for my Premier 17...


Yes, they certainly are. I see the Euro at USD1.27. So, using the web site Philippe gave us, even the more expensive Diamond version at EUR160 comes to USD203 and the less expensive Select version at EUR110 comes to about USD140. That's a really substantial difference. :scratch2:

[Rafale]

euro prices with VAT included
another good seller
EAT ECC 88 / 6DJ8 Rhre Selected | 247659 | Hifi Phono House (http://www.hifi-phono-house.com/Electroniques-a-Tubes/EAT/EAT-ECC-88-Selected--12049.html)

[jimtranr]

The EAT 6922s here are expensive...$225 each at Music Direct. I would need to spend $900 on tubes just for my Premier 17...

Which, aside from the reliability and satisfactory performance I get from them, is why I'm sticking with the stock EH's and using the "saved" $900 to apply toward a speaker cable upgrade. I'd like to do both the EATs and the SC, but....

[turntable]

euro prices with VAT included
another good seller
EAT ECC 88 / 6DJ8 Rhre Selected | 247659 | Hifi Phono House (http://www.hifi-phono-house.com/Electroniques-a-Tubes/EAT/EAT-ECC-88-Selected--12049.html)

thanks Phillipe

Remember folks - we get the 19% VAT taken off the price if ordering outside the EU

[Puma Cat]

Which, aside from the reliability and satisfactory performance I get from them, is why I'm sticking with the stock EH's and using the "saved" $900 to apply toward a speaker cable upgrade. I'd like to do both the EATs and the SC, but....

Smart move...I've stuck with the stock tubes in my Premier 17.

[turntable]

Which, aside from the reliability and satisfactory performance I get from them, is why I'm sticking with the stock EH's and using the "saved" $900 to apply toward a speaker cable upgrade. I'd like to do both the EATs and the SC, but....

Smart move...I've stuck with the stock tubes in my Premier 17.

Agree guys. When you have two or less it is worthwhile and a bit of fun tube rolling.

4 and above it can get expensive and the stk EH 6922's sound great.:thumbsup:

[ronenash]

My view on the whole tube rolling topic is that 95% of the performance of a tube component is coming from the design and parts selection. About 5% can be controlled with different makes of tubes that is assuming you are using a good (known brand) tube to begin with and it is not faulty.
How much you want to spend on that last 5% is any ones personal choice. I personally feel that more tuning of the sound can be achieved with interconnects and power cords.

No disrespect intended this is just my 2c.

[jimtranr]

My view on the whole tube rolling topic is that 95% of the performance of a tube component is coming from the design and parts selection. About 5% can be controlled with different makes of tubes that is assuming you are using a good (known brand) tube to begin with and it is not faulty.
How much you want to spend on that last 5% is any ones personal choice. I personally feel that more tuning of the sound can be achieved with interconnects and power cords.

No disrespect intended this is just my 2c.

While I might quibble (and no disrespect here, either, Ron) over whether "tuning" or "unleashing the potential of the system to reproduce" is the more appropriate (or maybe more ego-satisfying :D) descriptor, I'd say that my recent experience with IC and PC upgrades and their ability to get me closer to what's embedded in the recorded performance tends, from my perspective at least, to bear you out.

How the cable upgrades implemented thus far have demonstrated the ability of c-j gear not to screw up the music fed to it* has been illuminating, to say the least. Which is why I'd like to complete the synergistic circle (or, more accurately, the loom) with an SC upgrade before even considering whether I want to try the EAT.

*Inelegant, offbeat, and lefthanded way of putting it, perhaps, but it's the ability of control and amplification electronics to stay out of the way that impresses me most. Besides, I'm a southpaw.

[Puma Cat]

My view on the whole tube rolling topic is that 95% of the performance of a tube component is coming from the design and parts selection. About 5% can be controlled with different makes of tubes that is assuming you are using a good (known brand) tube to begin with and it is not faulty.
How much you want to spend on that last 5% is any ones personal choice. I personally feel that more tuning of the sound can be achieved with interconnects and power cords.

No disrespect intended this is just my 2c.

I do feel tubes can make quite a difference; they really helped my get my PV12 where I wanted it to be.

Regarding cables, I personally am of the opinion that power cords have the biggest effect, more than ICs or speaker cables.

[turntable]

I do feel tubes can make quite a difference; they really helped my get my PV12 where I wanted it to be.

Regarding cables, I personally am of the opinion that power cords have the biggest effect, more than ICs or speaker cables.


Funny,

I find speaker cables to have the biggest effect on ones system. My Transparent, Kimber, Nordost and Pure Note speakers cables all sound quite a bit different.

[ronenash]

I do feel tubes can make quite a difference; they really helped my get my PV12 where I wanted it to be.

Regarding cables, I personally am of the opinion that power cords have the biggest effect, more than ICs or speaker cables.

No dough tubes make a difference the question is whether these differences are worth the premium prices and hit and miss experience of some of the NOS and Premium tube out there. Based on my limitted experience I would rather put my money elsewhere.
To make my point a PV12 will not become a Pr17 with $1000 worth of EAT tubes in it. If you plan to spend this amount you might as well upgrade to a Pr17. Would you agree PC?

[Puma Cat]

No dough tubes make a difference the question is whether these differences are worth the premium prices and hit and miss experience of some of the NOS and Premium tube out there. Based on my limitted experience I would rather put my money elsewhere.
To make my point a PV12 will not become a Pr17 with $1000 worth of EAT tubes in it. If you plan to spend this amount you might as well upgrade to a Pr17. Would you agree PC?

Absolutely. But spending $90 for two NOS Mullard CV4003s really helped my PV12 over the tubes that it came with (RCA clear tops). The "upgrade" has to be balanced with the cost of the component. This is why I have a hard time spending close to 50% of what I paid for my Premier 17 in EAT 6922 tubes. I could see getting a set of Gold Lion 6922s for it. This is what's so great about the Shunyata Venom3; you can put it on almost any component with an IEC power cord, regardless of the cost of the component, and obtain a major improvement.

[ronenash]

No arguing that :thumbsup:

[turntable]

I just received the Pope and telefunken PCC88's from Upscale.

Put the cheaper Pope into my TW Acustik phono stage. WOW, very nice sounds compared to the Seimens PCC88. :thumbsup: Al Green's voice has is now more alive and the drums/percussion is now more lifelike and 3 dimensional and everything is just groovin a bit better.

There is no $70 interconnect or power cable that will give this level of improvement. :smoking:

Next up will be the Pope PCC88's into the cj GAT. I will wait 10 hours or so for the phono stage to settle.

cheers

[Joe Appierto]

I just received the Pope and telefunken PCC88's from Upscale.

Put the cheaper Pope into my TW Acustik phono stage. WOW, very nice sounds compared to the Seimens PCC88. :thumbsup: Al Green's voice has is now more alive and the drums/percussion is now more lifelike and 3 dimensional and everything is just groovin a bit better.

There is no $70 interconnect or power cable that will give this level of improvement. :smoking:

Next up will be the Pope PCC88's into the cj GAT. I will wait 10 hours or so for the phono stage to settle.

cheers

I like Siemens tubes, they are very neutral with good detail. However, the difference you describe between the Siemens PCC88 and the Pope (Philips) PCC88 is very the same that I find between other members of the 6DJ8/ECC88 family for these two manufacturers.

I haven't heard either of these tubes in my gear but I have been very favorably impressed with the two I have tried in my Pr 16 LS2: the Lorenz and Telefunken PCC88s.

To me, these kinds of discoveries are one of the best parts of our hobby. Anything that puts us closer to the emotional experience of the music is to be sought.

Enjoy!

[turntable]

I like Siemens tubes, they are very neutral with good detail. However, the difference you describe between the Siemens PCC88 and the Pope (Philips) PCC88 is very the same that I find between other members of the 6DJ8/ECC88 family for these two manufacturers.

I haven't heard either of these tubes in my gear but I have been very favorably impressed with the two I have tried in my Pr 16 LS2: the Lorenz and Telefunken PCC88s.

To me, these kinds of discoveries are one of the best parts of our hobby. Anything that puts us closer to the emotional experience of the music is to be sought.

Enjoy!

Joe, like anything, its all relative. The Siemens pcc88 that came with the phono I am not sure of their vintage as it did not sound as good as the other stk pcc88 which had no brand on it.

I must admit I am having to force myself not to put the other Popes in the Gat straight away.:yes:

I also have the 3 telefunken pcc88's looking lonely. It will be interesting to see how they sound in comparison.

All good fun indeed.

[turntable]

I put 2 Popes pcc88's into the cj GAT and listened. The first thing I noticed was the extension and upper frequency air become somewhat muted and everything was more concentrated in the mids. Even Ryan Adams voice sounded a little throaty. Everything was a little bit warm, still detailed, but centered in the mids and lower treble.

The pope pcc88 added bloom and extension in my phono stage, but a bit too much bloom in the GAT.
I prefer the eh 6922's to the pope pcc88's in the GAT. Would it change if I put a Telefunken pc88 into the phono stage - maybe?

I just put the telefunken pc88's into the GAT. Now that is better. Upper frequency extension, not too much midrange warmth and a tighter deeper bass. These are keepers.

The telefunkens pcc88's compared to the stk EH 6922's. Better extention at both ends, just sounds better balanced yet has an organic tone that the EH's don't quite have. These are keepers. Highly reommended.
I will resist putting the telefunken into the phomo stage for the moment.

Joe A, looks like the pcc88's and their characteristics in the cj pre amp are quite similar to your summary.

good clean fun or what.

[Joe Appierto]

good clean fun or what.

For sure. :thumbsup:

I find the Lorenz PCC88 to be very similar to the Telefunken. From what I've read and in my limited experience with the PCC88s, if you like/dislike the ECC88/6DJ8 version of a tube, that's going to hold pretty much true to form for the PCC88.

I'm glad you like the TFKs.

[turntable]

For sure. :thumbsup:

I find the Lorenz PCC88 to be very similar to the Telefunken. From what I've read and in my limited experience with the PCC88s, if you like/dislike the ECC88/6DJ8 version of a tube, that's going to hold pretty much true to form for the PCC88.

I'm glad you like the TFKs.

Joe, I think I may have to have a look out for Lorenz :thumbsup:

[Joe Appierto]

Joe, I think I may have to have a look out for Lorenz :thumbsup:

I had gotten mine at Tubemonger but they don't seem to have any more currently. Here's a link to them in their photo gallery:
Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s OEM NO LABEL Getter Ring Fused with Splatter Shield Construction - Made in Germany (http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Lorenz+Stuttgart+PCC88+Gray+Shield+1960s+OEM+NO+LA BEL+Getter+Ring+Fused+with+Splatter+Shield+Constru ction+-+Made+in+Germany.jpg.html)

I believe the earlier Lorenz tubes before they were labelled SEL and then ICI are the most desirable.

[turntable]

I had gotten mine at Tubemonger but they don't seem to have any more currently. Here's a link to them in their photo gallery:
Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s OEM NO LABEL Getter Ring Fused with Splatter Shield Construction - Made in Germany (http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Lorenz+Stuttgart+PCC88+Gray+Shield+1960s+OEM+NO+LA BEL+Getter+Ring+Fused+with+Splatter+Shield+Constru ction+-+Made+in+Germany.jpg.html)

I believe the earlier Lorenz tubes before they were labelled SEL and then ICI are the most desirable.

Yea, I noticed that on my google searches. Looks like you cleaned them out Joe :smoking: :D

[Joe Appierto]

Yea, I noticed that on my google searches. Looks like you cleaned them out Joe :smoking: :D

Shane, I wish I did have some extra, I'd send them to you to see what you thought. But I only purchased seven: six for the Pr 16 LS2 and the other for the Pr 140 input tube.

[Puma Cat]

A bit off-topic, but I need to find me some Reflektor 6H30DR-dp for one last go in the CT-5 to decide if I keep it or sell it. These tubes are gettin' hard to find.

[Joe Appierto]

A bit off-topic, but I need to find me some Reflektor 6H30DR-dp for one last go in the CT-5 to decide if I keep it or sell it. These tubes are gettin' hard to find.

This ad in Audiogon is for the 6H30-DR. They are $360 a pair though:
6H30P-DR.Supertubes. NOS.Matched Pairs. BAT.Audio Rese... | Tube | AudiogoN (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/452137)

Do they have to be DR's? You can get the regular 6H30-EB's for $45 each (plus $8 if you want them cryoed).

Russian 6H30 - Upscale Audio (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Russian-6H30.html)

I've used these in my Pr 140 and they sound very good. I do think the DR's are a bit smoother but they're considerably more.

This was just a quick search, BTW.

[turntable]

I have swapped my PCC-88's in and out of my cj GAT and TW Acustik phono stagenice and slowly over the past month. This is the ultimate pecking order.

cj GAT - Telefunken PCC-88's sounded better than both the stk EH 6922's and Pope PCC-88's. Music is just clearer, better focused and better extension and control at both extremes.

TW Acustik phono stage - roles reversed - go figure?. Pope PCC-88 sounded magnificent with life and drive added to the sound. the tele in comparison almost collapsed the soundstage and the drive was muted.

The Tele and Pope combination is musically more satisfying. :thumbsup: Time to buy another tele PCC-88 si I have a spare set for the GAT.

I still have a set of RCA and GE 12SN7GTA's to try in the other two tube positions of the phono stage that I need to try out. :yes:

cheers

[Puma Cat]

I have swapped my PCC-88's in and out of my cj GAT and TW Acustik phono stage. This is the ultimate pecking order.

cj GAT - Telefunken PCC-88's sounded better than both the stk EH 6922's and Pope PCC-88's. Music is just clearer, better focused and better extension and control at both extremes.

TW Acustik phono stage - roles reversed - go figure?. Pope PCC-88 sounded magnificent with life and drive added to the sound. the tele in comparison almost collapsed the soundstage and the drive was muted.

The Tele and Pope combination is musically more satisfying. Time to buy another tele PCC-88 si I have a spare set for the GAT.

cheers

Shane,
This is consistent with what I've found as well...that which tube sounds best is dependent on the circuit it's going into. I didn't like the RCA 12AU7 "clear tops" in my PV12 as much as I did the Mullard mil-spec 12AU7, the CV4003. OTOH, I preferred the "clear top" in the front-most socket of my EAR834P over the Mullard.

I also did not care for the NOS Telefunken 12AX7 in the rear two slots of my EAR834P; and these were *old* NOS Telefunkens...check out this box:

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/fujif31andf20photos/Telefunken.jpg

FWIW, I just installed a Genelex Gold Lion ECC82 (12AU7) in my EAR tonight....giving it a listen compared to the RCA Cleartop....

[turntable]

Stephen

yes, quite strange how the same tubes sound wonderful in one and not so good in the other.

I have 8 of the tele 12ax7's, however mine are "Fischer" branded and they are extremely good if you are looking for clarity and extension, whereas the Mullards generally add some warmth.

let us know what you think between the Gold Lion and RCA cleartop:yes:

[Puma Cat]

Yes, I had my TFKs cryo'd and in retrospect, not sure if it was a good idea. Cryoing seems to make some tubes "harder" sounding, though it did wonders for the CV4003s.

[microstrip]

I am using stk EH cj 6922's and I have tried JJ 6922's. The EH 6922 is very good imo and is quiet and neutral.
The JJ 6922's I have are a little rounder in the bass, relaxed in the treble and just a bit warmer all round. I prefer the EH 6922's in my system.

I just ordered from upscale audio

3 x Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8 - This is a 7 volt version of the super-expensive, impossible to find 6DJ8


3 x Philips Holland / Pope PCC88/7DJ8 - This is the same thing as an Amperex Bugle Boy.

Why did I order PCC88's. They are fully compatible with 6922 tubes and have a longer life. Telefunken and Amperex 6922's are a LOT more expensive.
Also my TW Acustik phono stage uses PCC88's, so opportunity to tube roll with two components.

I'll update how they sound after I receive them.

IMHO, if you want to use the PCC88 you should adjust the voltage of the filament supply, otherwise you are operating the tubes at a much lower cathode temperature than foreseen and the tube characteristics will suffer. In most cj preamps it is an easy mod - just changing a zener diode or adding a diode in series with the existing zener, as there is margin enough in the unregulated supply voltage.

But remember to undo the mod before frying your ECC88/6DJ8 in the modified preamplifier. :no:

[dpod4]

Shane....i paid 114 euros each, and it is the best present which I made for my GAT.... dead quiet tubes with beautiful soundstage and transparency, for me NOS quality without the downsides, i had a bad experience recently with a Mullard Holland CV2492 in my ET250s....I believed that my speakers had exploded...
Tolerances and the selection is, I suppose, even stricter for the version diamond

The EAT ECC88 is a special quality double triode. The tube satisfies the specifications in accordance with MIL-E-1/1J168 (NAVY) from 18.6.1958.

Tight tolerances: In these tubes the tolerance of electrical ratings are reduced in comparision with standard tubes.

Vibration and shock proof: The tube withstands accelerationns of 2,5 g at 50Hz for lenghty periods and momentary shocks of 500g for short periods.

Cathode free from Interface: The cathode establishes no interface even in case where the heated tube is operated without plate current over lenghty periods.

If i get the GAT should I get EAT 6922 tubes??

[turntable]

If i get the GAT should I get EAT 6922 tubes??

There is nothing wrong with the stk eh tubes. I would keep them for at least most of the break in. this will give you the opportunity to hear and understand the gat sound as cj intended. Also save burning expensive tubes.

Can't comment on the eat 6922's, even thou I am tempted to try a pair from Philippe's supplier. For a LOT cheaper the nos telefunken pcc-88's are a really nice upgrade on mine.

Decisions decisions:scratch2::thumbsup:

[dpod4]

There is nothing wrong with the stk eh tubes. I would keep them for at least most of the break in. this will give you the opportunity to hear and understand the gat sound as cj intended. Also save burning expensive tubes.

Can't comment on the eat 6922's, even thou I am tempted to try a pair from Jeromes supplier. For a LOT cheaper the nos telefunken pcc-88's are a really nice upgrade on mine.

Decisions decisions:scratch2::thumbsup:

Thanks. First order of biz is buying a GAT which I think I will be able to do in the next few weeks. I will take that good advice and use stock during burn-in.

[Puma Cat]

There is nothing wrong with the stk eh tubes. I would keep them for at least most of the break in. this will give you the opportunity to hear and understand the gat sound as cj intended. Also save burning expensive tubes.

Can't comment on the eat 6922's, even thou I am tempted to try a pair from Philippe's supplier. For a LOT cheaper the nos telefunken pcc-88's are a really nice upgrade on mine.

Decisions decisions:scratch2::thumbsup:

The EATs have been giving folks reliability problems....personally at those prices, I wouldn't go there. I don't know about the GAT, but my LP70S and Premier 17 came stock with Sovteks and they both sounded great with the stock tubes. So, I am in agreement with Shane to start out with the stock tubes first. C-J does an exemplary job of voicing their gear to the stock tube, so it is not an a given that a NOS or other tube would actually sound better.

[dpod4]

The EATs have been giving folks reliability problems....personally at those prices, I wouldn't go there. I don't know about the GAT, but my LP70S and Premier 17 came stock with Sovteks and they both sounded great with the stock tubes. So, I am in agreement with Shane to start out with the stock tubes first. C-J does an exemplary job of voicing their gear to the stock tube, so it is not an a given that a NOS or other tube would actually sound better.

Sounds like VAC - i cannot find anything that sounds better than stock tubes.

[dpod4]

By the way what a great resource AA is. I can ask a tube related, manufacturer & component specific question and get multiple helpful informed answers inside 12 hours!! Thanks!! Darrin

[Puma Cat]

That's what friends are for! ;)

[Puma Cat]

BTW, some of you may remember that I was mixing and matching 6922s into my Premier 17 recently. Here's what I ended up with (for the time being, at least)

Tubes under evaluation were:
1) The stock Sovtek 6922s
2) 2 Amperex 1969 NOS PQ Orange Label 7308s
3) GE 6DJ8 cryogenically treated
4) 2 Amperex NOS PQ Orange Label 6922s

Let me start out by saying that a stock Premier 17LS with the the stock Sovtek 6922s is a wonderful-sounding preamplifier, even for one now 10 years old. It's not the fastest, most transparent, or resolving preamp on the planet. It's quiet, but not as quiet as a CT-5. It's sounds similar, but superior to, the current ET-3, but probably not as transparent as an ET3SE with Teflon caps. Slightly on the warm side, with a very slight roll-off at the frequency extremes compared to more modern C-J preamps, the Pr17 has an absolutely gorgeous midrange that is to die for. Sweet, sweet, sweet is the term that comes to mind with this preamp. Most importantly, it sounds like music, much like the best Grado wood-body cartridges.

With the stock Sovteks, the sound is full and liquid and mellifluous, but not with the last level of detail (which is fine with me).

Substituting in one Amperex orange label 7308 and one cryo'd GE 6DJ8 per channel, the "fullness", expansives of the soundstage, detail, and definition improve noticeably, and bass is more tightly defined, but also "drier" in quality. Overall, while there is more detail, there is a slight "hardness" to the sound that I'm not completely comfortable with; it's not as musical as I would like.

I then took out the GE 6DJ8 because I've had some anecdotal experiences that cryo treatment, while adding a lot of detail to tubes, can make some tubes "hard"-sounding. I replaced them with the stock Sovtek 6922s, and got yet another sonic picture. This time the detail and fullness was still there, but the Sovteks added some warmth and smoothness to the presentation and took away the hardness the cryo'd GEs were bringing. Bass definition was improved, too.

it turns out I had another matched pair of Amperex orange-label PQ 6922s (not 7308s), and I then tried putting all the Amperexes in the preamp. Now, if you read the literature on Amperexes, they are known for a detailed, gorgeous midrange, but are slightly rolled off at the very top. Well, this is exactly what I observed putting in "all Amperexes"....while the mids were still very nice, overall the presentation was overly rolled off and overly soft and somewhat recessed....very pleasant, but the magic just wasn't quite there.

So, in the end, I ended up with a hybrid mix of tubes that I like very much: NOS Amperex PQ 7308s and Sovtek 6922s in the first and second sockets for each channel respectively. I now have more detail, better defined bass and a fuller, more defined sound that has greater reach into the frequency extremes than I did with all Sovteks or all Amperexes. Go figure. Granted the C-J Premier series of preamps are unusual because they have multiple tubes per channels, so they provide the ability to mix and match different tubes per channel, and by doing so, I was able to create some very nice synergy.

[turntable]

Stephen

cj use EH 6922's as stk :D

[turntable]

IMHO, if you want to use the PCC88 you should adjust the voltage of the filament supply, otherwise you are operating the tubes at a much lower cathode temperature than foreseen and the tube characteristics will suffer. In most cj preamps it is an easy mod - just changing a zener diode or adding a diode in series with the existing zener, as there is margin enough in the unregulated supply voltage.

But remember to undo the mod before frying your ECC88/6DJ8 in the modified preamplifier. :no:

Hi Microstrip

No one has mentioned this before. Upscale audio and others actively say they are interchangeable.
There are clear sound differences between the telefunken and pope pcc-88's between each other and the stk EH 6922's

What tubes characteristics are suffering?

[Joe Appierto]

So, in the end, I ended up with a hybrid mix of tubes that I like very much: NOS Amperex PQ 7308s and Sovtek 6922s in the first and second sockets for each channel respectively. I now have more detail, better defined bass and a fuller, more defined sound that has greater reach into the frequency extremes than I did with all Sovteks or all Amperexes. Go figure. Granted the C-J Premier series of preamps are unusual because they have multiple tubes per channels, so they provide the ability to mix and match different tubes per channel, and by doing so, I was able to create some very nice synergy.

Stephen,

Thank you! You've given me some food for thought here and some future tube rolling.

[Puma Cat]

Stephen

cj use EH 6922's as stk :D

Thanks, Shane...

All i know is I pulled two Sovteks out of the Premier 17 (have another in the 17 at the moment) and three Sovteks out of the LP70S; at least that's what's printed on the tube! It's entirely possible that EH and Sovteks are made by the same factory in Russia.

[ronenash]

It's entirely possible that EH and Sovteks are made by the same factory in Russia.

They are made at the same factory to the best of my knowledge but I think the internal design is not the same.

[Puma Cat]

Yes, I think the two big factories in Russia are New Sensor and Reflektor? I know that the Genalex Gold Lions and IIRC, the EHs are made at New Sensor.

[Rafale]

Reflektor corp. is the name of the factory situated to Saratov in Russia, this factory makes among others tubes Sovteks ( Sovietik-teknology) and Electro-harmonix and these tubes are distributed in the world by New-Sensor Co. EH is the premium division, the tolerances and the sorting being stricter what explains the price difference.
There are differences between 6922 Sovtek and EH, to see the photo below, EH to the right.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/phidelrv/L1020896.jpg
Note that New-Sensor also distributes Svetlana tubes who are also made in Russia in various factories of which Reflector and who to my knowledge are identical to Sovteks, not to confuse with Svetlana Electron Device who are made to St Petersburg,of superior quality, and are not distributed by New-Sensor

[Joe Appierto]

Thank you for the clarifications, Philippe. :thumbsup:

[Coppy]

Reflektor corp. is the name of the factory situated to Saratov in Russia, this factory makes among others tubes Sovteks ( Sovietik-teknology) and Electro-harmonix and these tubes are distributed in the world by New-Sensor Co. EH is the premium division, the tolerances and the sorting being stricter what explains the price difference.
There are differences between 6922 Sovtek and EH, to see the photo below, EH to the right.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/phidelrv/L1020896.jpg
Note that New-Sensor also distributes Svetlana tubes who are also made in Russia in various factories of which Reflector and who to my knowledge are identical to Sovteks, not to confuse with Svetlana Electron Device who are made to St Petersburg,of superior quality, and are not distributed by New-Sensor

And all this is why you like EAT!

Bob

[Rafale]

Hi Bob
With only 2 tubes the GAT allows to try 6922 relatively expensive without ruining itself, I think that the EAT is the best ECC88 / 6922 of the current production and in my system these tubes are of an exceptional silence, it seems to me that Jeff ( Tonepub) also strongly recommended EAT for the GAT, the guarantee of 6 months is also a security for the buyer
As for the problems reported by certain users I do not think that they are significant.... I remember having bought M8080 at CJ for my ET2 with the report of a very noisy tube after only a few hours of use, nobody is under cover...

[Puma Cat]

Reflektor corp. is the name of the factory situated to Saratov in Russia, this factory makes among others tubes Sovteks ( Sovietik-teknology) and Electro-harmonix and these tubes are distributed in the world by New-Sensor Co. EH is the premium division, the tolerances and the sorting being stricter what explains the price difference.
There are differences between 6922 Sovtek and EH, to see the photo below, EH to the right.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/phidelrv/L1020896.jpg
Note that New-Sensor also distributes Svetlana tubes who are also made in Russia in various factories of which Reflector and who to my knowledge are identical to Sovteks, not to confuse with Svetlana Electron Device who are made to St Petersburg,of superior quality, and are not distributed by New-Sensor

Thanks, Philippe.

Funny, my tubes look like the one ones on the right, but say Sovtek on them in black printing (ink).

[Rafale]

Interesting Stephen :yes:
I verified the internal structure of the Sovtek and EH 6922, there is no difference !....only the size and the diameter of the tube are different ie smaller for Sovtek

[dtb300]

The EAT 6922s here are expensive...$225 each at Music Direct. I would need to spend $900 on tubes just for my Premier 17...
$199 at Galen Audio - not promoting this store, etc. Just pointing out a better price.

[dpod4]

$199 at Galen Audio - not promoting this store, etc. Just pointing out a better price.

Just ordered 2 EAT 6922 from Music Direct for 195 each plus $7 shipping. They matched Galen Carol, which is also a great dealer.

[Rayooo]

Just ordered 2 EAT 6922 from Music Direct for 195 each plus $7 shipping. They matched Galen Carol, which is also a great dealer.

Just out of curiosity, how is the availability? Last year they were in VERY short supply. I waited months for one. Hopefully they are getting caught up.

[dpod4]

Just out of curiosity, how is the availability? Last year they were in VERY short supply. I waited months for one. Hopefully they are getting caught up.

They shipped mine same day.

[Rayooo]

They shipped mine same day.

wow, fantastic! ENJOY! :applause:

[joeinid]

wow, fantastic! ENJOY! :applause:

+1

Very nice.

[dpod4]

+1

Very nice.

Thank goodness the GAT only takes 2!

[Rafale]

Hi Folks
Did anybody try the Russian military tubes 6N23P (6DJ8 , ECC88, CV5358 , CV5472 , 6922 equivalent ) on the GAT or others CJ pre ?
I think that they are very interesting for their modest price, their reliability (10 000 hours) and their musical qualities
I have at present on my GAT, two 6N3P military Kaluga NOS 1970 rocket logo, from the Russian aerospace industry, Voshkod factory, and they are really excellent in term of background, harmonics, microinformations and microdynamics, timbral delicacy
they appear as a good solution for whom looks - as me- at an alternative in the EAT 6922 which are excellent but expensive even here in Europe
and the very good news is the price : 30 euros :thumbsup:

http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/13/IMGP8160.JPG

[Joe Appierto]

Hi Folks
Did anybody try the Russian military tubes 6N23P (6DJ8 , ECC88, CV5358 , CV5472 , 6922 equivalent ) on the GAT or others CJ pre ?
I think that they are very interesting for their modest price, their reliability (10 000 hours) and their musical qualities
I have at present on my GAT, two 6N3P military Kaluga NOS 1970 rocket logo, from the Russian aerospace industry, Voshkod factory, and they are really excellent in term of background, harmonics, microinformations and microdynamics, timbral delicacy
they appear as a good solution for whom looks - as me- at an alternative in the EAT 6922 which are excellent but expensive even here in Europe
and the very good news is the price : 30 euros :thumbsup:

http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/13/IMGP8160.JPG

Hi Philippe,

I've tried them in the 16LS2 with very good results and think your description on their sound is much the same as I found them. The tubes I have are from 1979 to 1982 and are labelled differently but I believe are the same otherwise.

If anyone would like to see a couple more pictures and what I thought of them in more detail, you could check out this posting from a web log I do sometimes:

Voshkod 6H23 (http://jda1951.xanga.com/761896159/voshkod-6h23%CF%80-eb/)

Regards,

[Rafale]

Hi Philippe,

I've tried them in the 16LS2 with very good results and think your description on their sound is much the same as I found them. The tubes I have are from 1979 to 1982 and are labelled differently but I believe are the same otherwise.

If anyone would like to see a couple more pictures and what I thought of them in more detail, you could check out this posting from a web log I do sometimes:

Voshkod 6H23 (http://jda1951.xanga.com/761896159/voshkod-6h23%CF%80-eb/)

Regards,

Hi Joe

i'm not sure, on your pics, the 6N23P-EB tubes on the left wear the Reflektor logo what seems to indicate Saratov factory
like this one
http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/19/IMGP8184.jpg
now see the Kaluga
http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/13/IMGP8160.JPG

[ronenash]

They are fantastic tubes. There are several different versions. The rocket logo version is great but preamp level ones are hard to find. I use the as driver tubes in my power amps. The 6h23p-ev are good for preamp use. I just bought two from partconextion.

You can see the different version with a Description of their qualities on Upscale Audio web site.

[Rafale]

They are fantastic tubes. There are several different versions. The rocket logo version is great but preamp level ones are hard to find. I use the as driver tubes in my power amps. The 6h23p-ev are good for preamp use. I just bought two from partconextion.

You can see the different version with a Description of their qualities on Upscale Audio web site.

Thanks Ron, good advice as always
today I am almost on that the 6N23P NOS Kaluga rocket logo are better than my EAT
But it is necessary to pay attention here, it has a lot of confusion with logo and the origins of Russian tubes

[Joe Appierto]

Hi Joe

i'm not sure, on your pics, the 6N23P-EB tubes on the left wear the Reflektor logo what seems to indicate Saratov factory
like this one
http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/19/IMGP8184.jpg
now see the Kaluga
http://www.passion-audio-tube.com/Files/24514/Img/13/IMGP8160.JPG

You're absolutely right, Philippe. They are from two different factories in Russia. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. :o

[Rafale]

You're absolutely right, Philippe. They are from two different factories in Russia. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. :o

Joe.... I more have to learn of you that the opposite :yes:
Ron...seen but they do not mention the year of production what is surprising...btw I can assure you that they work outstandingly with my GAT

[ronenash]

Joe.... I more have to learn of you that the opposite :yes:
Ron...seen but they do not mention the year of production what is surprising...btw I can assure you that they work outstandingly with my GAT

I am sure you can find preamp level rocket logo ones its just going to be more difficult. If you but from a reputable dealer that screens them you can get excellent samples.
I bought a bunch of them for a very low price through ebay and for most of them the noise level was too high to use in my CJ ET3 or Sonic Frontiers preamps. They all performed flawlessly as driver tubes or as CD/DAC buffer tubes and sounded great at that.

[Rafale]

I am sure you can find preamp level rocket logo ones its just going to be more difficult. If you but from a reputable dealer that screens them you can get excellent samples.
I bought a bunch of them for a very low price through ebay and for most of them the noise level was too high to use in my CJ ET3 or Sonic Frontiers preamps. They all performed flawlessly as driver tubes or as CD/DAC buffer tubes and sounded great at that.

......will try too as driver tube in my LP275M

[aldinohiend]

I wrote to CJ and ED told me not to use 6n23p why is not the same valve 6922/E88CC. And he also told me not to use the final KT88 valves.

[Rafale]

I wrote to CJ and ED told me not to use 6n23p why is not the same valve 6922/E88CC. And he also told me not to use the final KT88 valves.

Very strange :scratch2:...... it is maybe this day one of the best tubes which I was able to listen to on my GAT

[CoGT3]

I still have a set of RCA and GE 12SN7GTA's to try in the other two tube positions of the phono stage that I need to try out. :yes: cheers

Sorry to be dragging up an old thread but did you ever try out the GE or RCA 12SN7GTA's? I have the Thoress preamp heading my way in a couple of months (if my new home construction ever gets finished). Was already looking at tube options, sounds like the Pope is a real winner but haven't heard much feedback about switching out the other tubes. Only reference i found in the Thoress/TW Acustic amp was using an obscure Tung Sol black glass round plate.