Going to try to record my C-J system

[Puma Cat]

Something I've been intrigued about lately is making a recording of my analog-based C-J system. I've got a bit of a credit at my local pro audio store, and I thought I would buy a stereo mike; I already have a M-Audio USB mike preamp. The idea is to make a recording of my system playing various song cuts, in room, real-time, fully analog..that is, a recording of the speakers playing in the room. I could use GarageBand to do the mastering and editing, then save in .WAV or .AIFF and post for others to listen to.

Whaddaya guys think?

Sound like a plan?

[Rayooo]

Something I've been intrigued about lately is making a recording of my analog-based C-J system. I've got a bit of a credit at my local pro audio store, and I thought I would buy a stereo mike; I already have a M-Audio USB mike preamp. The idea is to make a recording of my system playing various song cuts, in room, real-time, fully analog..that is, a recording of the speakers playing in the room. I could use GarageBand to do the mastering and editing, then save in .WAV or .AIFF and post for others to listen to.

Whaddaya guys think?

Sound like a plan?

I'd need it on FLAC :D :lmao: no doubt about it 'would be a fascinating experiment.

[joeinid]

Very interesting, I bet it would be a fun experiment. I've always thought about recording the output of a high end cd/sacd player and making one big wave file stored on my computer for playback. Kind of crazy.

[Puma Cat]

Flac will be no problem, I can convert from AIFF to FLAC with XLD.

[Puma Cat]

Very interesting, I bet it would be a fun experiment. I've always thought about recording the output of a high end cd/sacd player and making one big wave file stored on my computer for playback. Kind of crazy.

Well, as a scientist, experiments are what I am all about.

The idea in this case, is not go out from the preamp or source, but record actual, in-room music from the speakers.

[Rayooo]

I can see lots of options.... mic close to speakers? or, more like stereo mic from listening position? seems latter would be more a composite of your electronics along with room acoustics, or, close to speakers would tend to minimize some of the room acoustics.

probably going to need about 100 "takes" to find the one you like, or, post them all and take a vote. :scratch2:

[Puma Cat]

I think I will use a stereo mike at the listening position, since I have data from my DOE studies around this last year. I know pretty what's optimal for listening; the idea is to have the mike try to capture what I hear, then digitize it for distribution to the gang. I don't think I'll need 100 takes, though.

[joeinid]

Well, as a scientist, experiments are what I am all about.

The idea in this case, is not go out from the preamp or source, but record actual, in-room music from the speakers.

Ahhh, now I understand. Very interesting. I suppose the room and stereo flavor could be captured and reproduced. Perhaps the stereo it's played back on will further influence the music playback. Kind of like a mirror in a mirror but not exact duplication between the two resulting in a tear in the time/space continuum. :scratch2: Please don't disappear on us :no:

[Rayooo]

I think I will use a stereo mike at the listening position, since I have data from my DOE studies around this last year. I know pretty what's optimal for listening; the idea is to have the mike try to capture what I hear, then digitize it for distribution to the gang. I don't think I'll need 100 takes, though.

I guess if me I'd be trying to simulate not only the tonal balance, but the soundstage width, and ambiance that I'd perceive when listening. So it just seems it could take a long time to achieve this, if it's even possible. And assuming the entire system/room ambiance could be recorded, would it be reproducible on anything but the actual system that was used for the recording?

I've been in plenty of recording studios over the years working with the electronics, but it's the guys that know how to put a microphone in the right place that work the magic...and I ain't one of'em. it'd definitely take me 100 takes...minimum. :yes:

[Pider]

Recording live music, I've always had to have multiple mics, usually a minimum of six. This has been especially true for my son's performances in chamber groups. Whenever I used a stereo mic out in the audience position, I just couldn't get the depth of the live sound, and there was just no controlling the room acoustics.

One would think that the stereo mic would, if positioned at the right listening spot, simulate how we humans pick up the combined sounds coming from speakers and walls, etc. You'll be surprised, however, how different types of stereo mics will totally alter the sound stage. Which do you have in mind?

[Puma Cat]

Well, it's not a doctoral thesis. We'll see what I come up with. I'm not recording live music, and I definitely will not be using six microphones and doing a lot of mixing. it's the music from two speakers in a room recorded at the listening position. The ideal way to do it would be with binaural microphones and head, but I don't know that I want to get that deeply into it. It's more of just a "fun project".

As I will be needing to buy two mics, and keep this affordable, what mikes would you recommend? I really don't want to spend 6 bills on mics for a fun project.

Setup will likely be a coincident pair as a starting point.

[Briz Vegaas]

I can't find the clip from the Blues Brothers where he says he sold the original blues mobile for a microphone. Just pretend I included it in my post.

I have a soft spot for my CJ gear as well but don't think I would try and record it. You should just invite us round. We internationals would miss out but I am sure the local guys would partake.

You could try measuring it however, that could be interesting. If you have a sound that you think should be bottled then it would be interesting to see how that might compare to the sound of other peoples systems.

[jimtranr]

Stephen, what's the listening room like? Size, shape, drywall, paneling, proportions, furnishings, etc.? That and mike selection obviously impose a signature on what you hear, so that if you provide that info along with listening samples we'd have a referential context.

Sounds like an interesting project in any event.

[Puma Cat]

Okay, guys, here are some links to a recording I made on Saturday. I used two CAD stereo mikes with omni capsules in a 110 deg. ORTF setup and an M-Audio MobilePre USB audio interface. Recording is at 16/44k as that's all the MobilePre supports. Please bear in mind that this was the very first recording I made, and I am still playing around with a lot of variables and am learning as I go; don't really know what I am doing. There's clearly some "echo-y" room ambience going on, but it gives you a flavor, if nothing else.

This is the first cut on the new Analogue Productions' 45 rpm LP reissue of "We Get Requests" by the Oscar Peterson Trio put out at the new Quality Record Pressings plant. To play these, you should right-click on the link and download the entire file to your computer. I've noticed that playback seems to sound better in Audacity than ITunes...not sure why.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31426499/Quiet%20Nights%20WGR%20OPT%20.flac

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31426499/Quiet%20Nights%20WGR%20OPT%20copy.aiff


Both files are approx 28 meg downloads.

-PC

[Jerome W]

Thanks a lot Stephen !
I will make your room enter into mine tonight ! :thumpsup:

[jimtranr]

This is the first cut on the new Analogue Productions' 45 rpm LP reissue of "We Get Requests" by the Oscar Peterson Trio put out at the new Quality Record Pressings plant.

Ah, a delicious Corcovado, Stephen. As you indicate, a tad echoey, but for someone who says he "doesn't know what he's doing", a nice job nonetheless. Reminds me of Oscar and company playing a date at the "old" Yoshi's around 1989.

How far are the mikes from the speakers? That might explain the echo.

[Puma Cat]

Ah, a delicious Corcovado, Stephen. As you indicate, a tad echoey, but for someone who says he "doesn't know what he's doing", a nice job nonetheless. Reminds me of Oscar and company playing a date at the "old" Yoshi's around 1989.

How far are the mikes from the speakers? That might explain the echo.

Thanks, Jim. I would have loved to have heard Oscar and company at the old "Yoshi's" as I lived nearby in Berkeley at the time.

The mikes are about 3.5 feet from the speakers. My understanding from a friend was that for ORTF you place the mikes at half the distance that the speakers are apart. My S3.4s are 7 ft apart, so I put the mikes at 3.5 ft from each speaker. I could also try the wind sock, that might act like a speaker grille and take a little of the highs; the box for the CAD mikes said they are designed to pick up the highs from cymbals and brass for a "lively" presentation, so they are slightly tipped up between 7 and 16 Kz (see omni FR plot pic attached).

I could try the cardioid capsules, that's a bit more directional, might give less pickup reflected from the back walls (see cardioid polar response pic attached).

They're inexpensive CAD equitek e70 mikes, only $99/ea. We're not talkin' Schoeps or Bruer&Kjael here....

[Puma Cat]

Uploading a new track to Dropbox right now from Swing's the Thing.

I think we're startin' to get somewhere...stay tuned.

[Pider]

How'd this come out?

[Puma Cat]

Pretty well, I'll post a link via DropBox later.