Conrad Johnson new products 2012

[turntable]

I believe their is a fundamental gap in cj's amplifier line.

You go from the ET250 @ 8k to LP125's at 9.5k, a bit more for the SE, then to 35k for the ART.

cj is throwing away $$ to the likes of ARC and co. There needs to be a SS or hybrid premier quality amplifier at around the 12 - 17k mark. A monoblock SS/hybrid amp will sell a lot better than a single chassis 350A type amp. After all us audiophiles are all about show and real estate right :-)


there is probably an arguement for a large KT120 based monoblock in the 20k range to off an alternative to the ARC ref250.


One last thing. conrad johnson need to bring back the Premier numbering - that always was the cj reference grade and needs to be resurected imo
I believe the LP70, 140 and 275 would have sold a lot better named premier 19, 20 and 21 or prem70, prem 140 and prem 275. That has always been cj's mantra until the prem18 pre.

What do you fellow cj lovers out there think?

[Rayooo]

Agreed! :thumbsup: I would have very much liked to have had 12k$ ish SS/Hybrid monoblocks from CJ to consider! Monoblocks, similar in positioning to what ET5 is to GAT, would have been very interesting.

I did try to get Ed to give me a hint recently on what might be expected on the CJ pwr amp front in the next 6-12 months. He didn't. :tears:

[ronenash]

The LP125M SE is $13.5K much like its LP140 predecessor.

Although CJ SS gear is very highly regarded by the hifi critics I believe it was not a commercial success and this is the reason they dropped their SS products.

[Rayooo]

how 'bout an ET-250 class hybrid, bridged. AKA ET-500, ET front end, SS output. Or even better name: Premier 500. :icon_jump:

[bgiliberti]

....Although CJ SS gear is very highly regarded by the hifi critics I believe it was not a commercial success and this is the reason they dropped their SS products.I'm not sure dropped is the right word, maybe "morphed" because the hybrids seem to be 9 parts SS and 1 part tube (literally 1 on the input only). I consider these to be SS with, a cosmetic tube to fool the goyim.

[turntable]

The LP125M SE is $13.5K much like its LP140 predecessor.

Although CJ SS gear is very highly regarded by the hifi critics I believe it was not a commercial success and this is the reason they dropped their SS products.


Hi Ron, your example here is a classic example of what cj is doing wrong in the market IMO.

The LP125M is a morphed classic 60. Heck it even has the same chassis.

It is not the same as the premier class 11,12 or 8 of yesteryear or the LP70,LP140 or LP275. All these had different chassis/cosmetics, better transformers, heavier etc etc to seperate themselves from the Classic / MV range.

Gents with $$ who are considering ET5 or GAT will not consider the entry level looking LP125M, regardless of how close performance is to the reference class. Then you may lose the entire sale.

diehard cj customers are one thing, but new customer is another matter.

This is where ARC have very good marketing and product offering and make cj, well amateur. This is a real pity as I luv cj products and the way they sound.

[dpod4]

Hi Ron, your example here is a classic example of what cj is doing wrong in the market.

The LP125M is a morphed classic 60. Heck it even has the same chassis.

It is not the same as the premier class 11,12 or 8 of yesteryear or the LP70,LP140 or LP275. All these had different chassis/cosmetics, better transformers, heavier etc etc to seperate themselves from the Classic / MV range.

Gents with $$ who are considering ET5 or GAT will not consider the entry level looking LP125M, regardless of how close performance is to the reference class. Then you may lose the entire sale.

diehard cj customers are one thing, but new customer is another matter.

This is where ARC have very good marketing and product offering and make cj, well amateur. This is a real pity as I luv cj products and the way they sound.

Spot on!

[bgiliberti]

Hi Ron, your example here is a classic example of what cj is doing wrong in the market IMO.

The LP125M is a morphed classic 60. Heck it even has the same chassis.

It is not the same as the premier class 11,12 or 8 of yesteryear or the LP70,LP140 or LP275. All these had different chassis/cosmetics, better transformers, heavier etc etc to seperate themselves from the Classic / MV range.

Gents with $$ who are considering ET5 or GAT will not consider the entry level looking LP125M, regardless of how close performance is to the reference class. Then you may lose the entire sale.

diehard cj customers are one thing, but new customer is another matter.

This is where ARC have very good marketing and product offering and make cj, well amateur. This is a real pity as I luv cj products and the way they sound.I would add to that the collapse of the retail dealer market When people hear CJ they will buy it, but if they can't hear it due to a lack of retail dealers, it's uphill all the way. Particularly for a small company like CJ that simply can't afford the full page spreads like ARC. Even if they do everything right on the product side, the complete collapse of traditional audiophile shops outside of virtually everywhere but Boston (where they still seem to remember the Campbridge sound) is a huge problem for a high-end audio manufacturer like cj.

[ronenash]

The LP125M is a morphed classic 60. Heck it even has the same chassis.

It is not the same as the premier class 11,12 or 8 of yesteryear or the LP70,LP140 or LP275. All these had different chassis/cosmetics, better transformers, heavier etc etc to seperate themselves from the Classic / MV range.


This might be true if you are buying a chassis not an amplifier. In practical terms the LP125M SE is virtually an ART with half the power and a cheaper chassis. the LP70/LP140/LP275 design was a more complex design that CJ decided to drop in the ART due to complexities in tube matching and overall sound quality.
Did you notice the the ART like the LP125M uses one single triod as input voltage gain and one dual triod as phase splitter before the power tubes. This design is different than the one in the LP140 that used balanced triods from the input to the power tubes. The LP140 has 6 triod sections where the LP125 and ART have only 3.
CJ did go for a cheaper chassis when the economy went south to be more atractive in the market but both the LP66 and the LP125 were identical designs to the ART. Today CJ are offering the SE versions which upgrade the capacitor to teflons and the resistors to the best Vishays. The result is an amplifier that is very similar to the ART.
You are basically paying less money for the chassis work and more money for the internal design.

Just my thoughts knowing CJ designs very well.

[Puma Cat]

Good insights, Ron.

Regarding the LP-series, I still think it's one of their finest sounding efforts, clearly superior to the Pr11/12 series.

I also think the series are a beautiful amp from a design perspective.

[ronenash]

Good insights, Ron.

Regarding the LP-series, I still think it's one of their finest sounding efforts, clearly superior to the Pr11/12 series.

I also think the series are a beautiful amp from a design perspective.

Absolutely Stephen. The design is beautiful for sure and they are great amps. Curtainly much better than the PR11/PR12 and better looking than the current LP66/LP125.

Sound wise I think they LP140 and LP125M SE should be very similar.

[Rafale]

Absolutely Stephen. The design is beautiful for sure and they are great amps. Curtainly much better than the PR11/PR12 and better looking than the current LP66/LP125.

Sound wise I think they LP140 and LP125M SE should be very similar.

In these conditions the question is: is the LP125M SE upper to the LP140 M?....:scratch2:.

[turntable]

I agree about the product 'gap'.

They seem in a bit of a bind wrt the naming scheme using numbers whose sequence crossed amps and preamps. (for example, Premier 12=amp, Premier 16=pre). I believe the ACT-2 was intended to be a follow-on to the ART - whether that succeeded is one question, but it seems to have introduced a product line that was meant to be a notch above the Premier series, if not 'state of the art'. Presumably the ART amplifier would be above a Premier level amp as would an ACT. Once they went beyond ART to ACT, that seemed to open the door to naming things in a less clear way (to put it kindly). Then there is the 'GAT' name which seems parallel with ART in terms of quality implication - is that right?

I fear it is too late for CJ to go back to the Premier nomenclature, but their current naming schemes does not seem as coherent as it once was. Even "back then" the sequencing was confusing as a higher numbered Premier product did not necessarily reflect its place in the hierarchy of price or sonics. (eg. Premier 16 vs 17). But for a time, if it said 'Premier' you had the general idea that it was within their top of the line.

Some numbers in their naming tie generally to wattage. The whole 'ET' (Enhanced Triode) and 'LP' thing I never quite grasped. It would help if they parsed it all out a bit cleaner.

Fwiw, there was a Premier 140 (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/conradjohnson_premier140.htm).

The premier numbering scheme was quite simple. Each premier pre or amp took the next number. It was cj's premium audio line above the mv amps and pv pre amps. Premier 1 amplifier in 1981 was the first release all the way up to premier 18 pre amp around 2003

The ART pre amp was a limited edition best effort/reference pre amp of 250 units. The prem 16 was the trickle down mini art pre amp. The prem 17 released later was the cheaper version of the prem16.

Then for some reason cj dropped the prem numbering and released the prem 140 tube amp and then prem 350 ss amp.

The ACT2 was the next normal production premium pre amp.

Now we have the two ultra expensive limited edition GAT pre and ART amps.

Clear as mud

[Myles B. Astor]

I believe their is a fundamental gap in cj's amplifier line.

You go from the ET250 @ 8k to LP125's at 9.5k, a bit more for the SE, then to 35k for the ART.

cj is throwing away $$ to the likes of ARC and co. There needs to be a SS or hybrid premier quality amplifier at around the 12 - 17k mark. A monoblock SS/hybrid amp will sell a lot better than a single chassis 350A type amp. After all us audiophiles are all about show and real estate right :-)


there is probably an arguement for a large KT120 based monoblock in the 20k range to off an alternative to the ARC ref250.


One last thing. conrad johnson need to bring back the Premier numbering - that always was the cj reference grade and needs to be resurected imo
I believe the LP70, 140 and 275 would have sold a lot better named premier 19, 20 and 21 or prem70, prem 140 and prem 275. That has always been cj's mantra until the prem18 pre.

What do you fellow cj lovers out there think?

Well I'd be shocked if cj doesn't come out with an amplifier based around the KT120s. Something like the ART would be between 5-600 watts assuming 150 wpc/pair of output tubes. Problem is what do you tell ART amplifier owners who just purchased their amps--and I assume maybe 1/2 of the 100 or so that were going to be released have been sold? That their amplifier is obselete? I would imagine any update would be expensive as it would require at minimum changes to the power and output transformers.

I also think you'll see a ART/GAT level phono section.

Where cj is probably missing the boat is in digital. The USB Dac is the first digital arena in quite some time. (Assuming their forays into HT was a dead end---as were earlier ones into tts, speakers and importing the Argent cartridge :) ).

[TommyC]

I thought CJ was coming out with a new CD player a few years back. What happened to that?

[Puma Cat]

I think C-J realizes that the writing is on the wall for CD players; the future is in music servers. Why build an expensive CD transport mechanism when you can get rid of the transport altogether? A music server more closely approaches the TRIZ concept of ideality. The only thing I use my Oppo for now for music is playing SACDs (and Blu-Ray videos, which it does a spectacular job of, BTW).

[bgiliberti]

I think C-J realizes that the writing is on the wall for CD players; the future is in music servers. ...Then why the new DAC? Or is that the same as a server. You can see that my knowledge is in the stone age....

[Puma Cat]

Oh, the DAC is the digital to analog portion of the music server, what makes the music! ;)

I guess I should have provided my operational definition of music server: a means of storing, accessing, and serving up digital music files plus D/A conversion so that the files can be played over a system (plus the cabling, etc).

I see you have Harbeths...you have excellent taste in speakers. If I were not using Dyns, I would be using Harbeths.

[Rayooo]

I think C-J realizes that the writing is on the wall for CD players; the future is in music servers. Why build an expensive CD transport mechanism when you can get rid of the transport altogether? A music server more closely approaches the TRIZ concept of ideality. The only thing I use my Oppo for now for music is playing SACDs (and Blu-Ray videos, which it does a spectacular job of, BTW).

Same here with my Oppo! ...and to make matters worse, I'm slowly selling off my SACDs. (only really had a couple dozen anyway, most of which were hybrids)

for sure CJ must not see any benefit whatsoever to supporting CD playback...else they at least would have put something other than a single USB input on the HD3.

[Rafale]

Linn completely stopped the production of CDP for 2 years.....

[bgiliberti]

Same here with my Oppo! ...and to make matters worse, I'm slowly selling off my SACDs. (only really had a couple dozen anyway, most of which were hybrids)

for sure CJ must not see any benefit whatsoever to supporting CD playback...else they at least would have put something other than a single USB input on the HD3.Don't follow...CD's transports don't connect through USBs, do they? I thought USBs were for Ipods and the like? Maybe that's the point? You can't connect a CD transport? Which, BTW, I think is nuts if it is true.

[Puma Cat]

The HD3 is intended to serve as a DAC for a computer-based music server system, e.g. a dedicated laptop or small computer. The HD3 uses an asynchronous USB DAC section designed by Kevin Halvorsen of HRT fame, one of the few designers who really understands how to implement asynchronous USB. Many computer audio experts are moving to the position that asynchronous USB is the way to go for computer-based music servers (the de facto standard is the Mac Mini) as it almost completely eliminates jitter and provides a much cleaner digital stream for the D/A onversion and subsequent input to the analog amplification section of the DAC. The development of the asynchronous USB approach was pioneered by Gordon Rankin of Wavelength, who makes some of the finest USB DACs to be had and who worked out the basic approach to asynchronous USB. You don't need a CD transport for a music server, because all you need do is use the CD drive in any computer to rip the CD content to your computer music server, and then stream the files to the HD3. This is a much better approach than playing a disc in a transport an then sending the output to an external DAC because you completely bypass all the issues around transports, transport function, isolation, durability, reliability, laser failure, etc, etc. Aslo most CD transports output through S/PDIF or AES/EBU as these interfaces are very prone to jitter; the asynchronous USB approach gets around this and obviates the need for an expensive transport mechanism altogether. As music content increasingly moves to higher bit rates and sampling frequencies, the Redbook CD format will become increasinlgy obsolete. Think of it as analagous to buying conventional music either as CDs, or content from a music store, e.g. Apple, Linn, Naim, HD Tracks, B&W, etc. Apple is presently not providing high-res content, but here's hoping as they have the best music store implementaton around. The future in digital source content is in high-res files purchased from these types of vendors. My expectation is that in five years, very little content will be sold as physical digital media, e.g.. Redbook CDs or SACD, it will either be music files, or, believe or not, LPs! My expectation is that the sale of LPs will continue to grow.

[Rayooo]

Don't follow...CD's transports don't connect through USBs, do they? I thought USBs were for Ipods and the like? Maybe that's the point? You can't connect a CD transport? Which, BTW, I think is nuts if it is true.

Yes, since no coax or optical spdif on CJ HD3 dac, they are limited to devices providing USB streaming outputs.

I'm unaware of any CD transports/players with USB outputs, no technical reason their could not be one, I think it's just that historically the CD player digital output formant has been SPDIF of some flavor.

[goone]

Yes, I almost pull the trigger on the DAC until found out only had one input USB, hopefully there is some kind of switch box out there can convert the usb input to multiple in

[Puma Cat]

Yes, it says that the HD3 was specifically desigend to be used in a computer music server-based application, per Mssrs Conrad and Johnson's needs. In this respect it is very similar to the Ayre QB-9, which has been one of the most successful DACs launched.

There are lots of other good DACs around if one needs S/PDIF or AES/EBU or Toslink input; the Rega DAC comes to mind.

[Myles B. Astor]

I think C-J realizes that the writing is on the wall for CD players; the future is in music servers. Why build an expensive CD transport mechanism when you can get rid of the transport altogether? A music server more closely approaches the TRIZ concept of ideality. The only thing I use my Oppo for now for music is playing SACDs (and Blu-Ray videos, which it does a spectacular job of, BTW).

Maybe because they're zillions of CDs out there? Possibly some that don't want to bother with ripping their collection? Convenience?

[Rayooo]

Maybe because they're zillions of CDs out there? Possibly some that don't want to bother with ripping their collection? Convenience?

but once you go FLAC, you'll never go back. :D

[Puma Cat]

Maybe because they're zillions of CDs out there? Possibly some that don't want to bother with ripping their collection? Convenience?

If that's the case, there are lots of good CD players out there already; perhaps C-J feels that putting out another one is getting into a "red ocean" (read the book Blue Ocean Strategy).

Personally, I think the HD3 is simply the result of Lew and Bill wanting a USB DAC of theri own that meets their personal needs for a computer-based music server. Hence, the HD3 was born.

Myles, you probably know the guys at C-J better than any of us; perhaps you could ask them to provide some insights as to why C-J is not making a CD player these days.

On another note, how is the research going?

[Rayooo]

I could surely understand why CJ or anyone else for that matter, would have to think long and hard before building a new CD transport/player these days.

On the other hand, an argument could be made for CJ to build a fully featured DAC with multiple inputs and types, all sampling rate format support and high resolution digital volume control.

but then, a fully featured DAC tends to get people asking: "so what do I need an analog preamp for?"

Which I have to admit would make me squirm a bit if I'm selling high-end analog preamps.

[Myles B. Astor]

but once you go FLAC, you'll never go back. :D

I actually say that about 15 ips R2R tape :banana:

[turntable]

but then, a fully featured DAC tends to get people asking: "so what do I need an analog preamp for?"

Which I have to admit would make me squirm a bit if I'm selling high-end analog preamps.

Because analog pre amps sound better for one.

Many people run vinyl, so using a fully featured DAC with digital volume control is an abhorrent idea, not to mention as waste of $$. :D

[Rayooo]

I actually say that about 15 ips R2R tape :banana:

Oh yea! :thumbsup: I worked at Ampex for many years, mainly worked on pro video gear, but also some with the Pro audio products.
15 or even 30 ips on Ampex 456 Grand Master tape! :yeeea:

[Puma Cat]

Because analog pre amps sound better for one.

Many people run vinyl, so using a fully featured DAC with digital volume control is an abhorrent idea, not to mention as waste of $$. :D

Ya got that right.

[ronenash]

Yes, it says that the HD3 was specifically desigend to be used in a computer music server-based application, per Mssrs Conrad and Johnson's needs. In this respect it is very similar to the Ayre QB-9, which has been one of the most successful DACs launched.

There are lots of other good DACs around if one needs S/PDIF or AES/EBU or Toslink input; the Rega DAC comes to mind.

This still does not make sense to me. What's the point in getting a new DAC to the market with only one input. Putting in additional input has very little design or manufacturing cost. If the HD3 had more inputs I would get one in a second.

[Puma Cat]

This still does not make sense to me. What's the point in getting a new DAC to the market with only one input. Putting in additional input has very little design or manufacturing cost. If the HD3 had more inputs I would get one in a second.

A lot of folks asked exactly the same thing about the Ayre QB-9. Apparently it has not hurt the success of this product.

[joeinid]

If it sounds as good as people say, it might be worthwhile looking into. I'd be willing to give it a try at some point. If it says conrad johnson on it - it must be good :)

[rthomeint]

The HD3 will play CDs if a computer is used. I'm using an older Mac Mini as a server and with programs like VLC the data stream for a Cd is decoded. Is it the last word in CD transports, no but it doses credible job of play a CD. That ripped files from a CD to a hard drive sound much better than the original CD.

[ronenash]

If it sounds as good as people say, it might be worthwhile looking into. I'd be willing to give it a try at some point. If it says conrad johnson on it - it must be good :)

I am sure its a great DAC for computer audio if that's your only source.

[joeinid]

I am sure its a great DAC for computer audio if that's your only source.

It really is my main source but spin cd/sacd's on occasion so one more dac couldn't hurt ;)

[Puma Cat]

Joe,
We gotta get you into a vinyl rig! ;)

[joeinid]

Joe,
We gotta get you into a vinyl rig! ;)

I know, but I don't think I can do vinyl right or give it justice. Maybe next summer you could steer me into a "beginner table", something with training wheels. :(

[Puma Cat]

Next summer, let me know, I can steer you straight....a sweet "set it and forget it" table; how does that sound?

[joeinid]

Next summer, let me know, I can steer you straight....a sweet "set it and forget it" table; how does that sound?

Like a plan!

For you, AA and my own curiousity (spelling) I'll give it a shot. I'm game.

[TommyC]

Does anyone know if CJ will introduce new amps in CES?

[Puma Cat]

Haven't heard anything; I wouldn't be too surprised if they introduced an amp that takes advantage of the new KT-120.

[Joe Appierto]

Next summer, let me know, I can steer you straight....a sweet "set it and forget it" table; how does that sound?

Hi Puma Cat,

Excuse me for “butting in” to your thread but I see that you have a Clearaudio Concept turntable and I’d like to draw on your experiences with it, if I could.

I’ve had a Clearaudio Concept together with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge since about May of this year. The turntable was set up for me by Needle Doctor. Since day one the ‘table has been incredibly sensitive to footfalls and will jump the groove at the slightest vibration.

I purchased a digital tracking force meter and have verified that the VTF is set at 1.5 gms which is the recommended tracking force for the 2M Black. As far as I can tell by using a ruler and measuring the tonearm front and back, it’s level. The antiskating although not perfect (and no matter how I adjust it, I can’t get it to be perfect), is close enough. The turntable itself is also level.

I clean every record I play and the stylus after each side. Today is a perfect example of one of the problems I have with the sound. I was playing a brand new copy of The Well by Jennifer Warnes and periodically I’d get sibilance on every side (there are three records in the set) during vocals. It also seems that the stylus itself may be inordinately sensitive to stray pieces of dust, lint, etc. and will also start to distort sometimes before the record side is even halfway finished.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to try and explain the situation as well as I could.

My questions are:

Do you find that your Concept is also very susceptible to footfalls?
Do you have any issues with sibilance or high frequency distortion?

Thanks for reading through all of this.

[Rayooo]

Hi Joe, Greetings from Morris County :D

[Joe Appierto]

Hi Rayooo,

Thanks and Middlesex County says hi as well! :yes:

Regards,

[Puma Cat]

Hi Puma Cat,

Excuse me for “butting in” to your thread but I see that you have a Clearaudio Concept turntable and I’d like to draw on your experiences with it, if I could.

I’ve had a Clearaudio Concept together with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge since about May of this year. The turntable was set up for me by Needle Doctor. Since day one the ‘table has been incredibly sensitive to footfalls and will jump the groove at the slightest vibration.

I purchased a digital tracking force meter and have verified that the VTF is set at 1.5 gms which is the recommended tracking force for the 2M Black. As far as I can tell by using a ruler and measuring the tonearm front and back, it’s level. The antiskating although not perfect (and no matter how I adjust it, I can’t get it to be perfect), is close enough. The turntable itself is also level.

I clean every record I play and the stylus after each side. Today is a perfect example of one of the problems I have with the sound. I was playing a brand new copy of The Well by Jennifer Warnes and periodically I’d get sibilance on every side (there are three records in the set) during vocals. It also seems that the stylus itself may be inordinately sensitive to stray pieces of dust, lint, etc. and will also start to distort sometimes before the record side is even halfway finished.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to try and explain the situation as well as I could.

My questions are:

Do you find that your Concept is also very susceptible to footfalls?
Do you have any issues with sibilance or high frequency distortion?

Thanks for reading through all of this.

Joe,
1) I do find my Concept is quite susceptible to footfalls. I would contact Musical Surroundings and order some of the rubber feet that are the current specification if you don't have them already. The other thing to try would be to pull the TT on a maple board that is on rollerblocks to try to get some isolation.

2) Don't have problems with sibilance, but I am using a Grado mono cartridge. It might be a good idea to check the overhang and alignment of your cartridge. Just because it was pre-installed doesn't mean it's right. I'd get a good protractor and recheck it.

For further discussion, we should really move this over to the turntable thread.

Cheers,
PC

[Joe Appierto]

Thanks for the advice, Puma Cat. I will check with Musical Surroundings regarding the feet since I've got the metal spikes on my unit. I'll look into your other points, too.

Sorry for steering off topic.

Thanks again.

[Pider]

Should be moved with an appropriate heading so others can find it. Seems like good info.

[Rafale]

Joe
Buy a SG3..... here it is the territory of CJ:lmao:
http://www.stereophile.com/images/imagecache/960-wide/photopost/data/500/113beachaudio_019.jpg

[Puma Cat]

Thanks for the advice, Puma Cat. I will check with Musical Surroundings regarding the feet since I've got the metal spikes on my unit. I'll look into your other points, too.

Sorry for steering off topic.

Thanks again.

My Concept has the metal spikes and I have the same exact problem. I think the metal splkes are a big part of it; my Rega P5 sits on the same kind of rack shelf and it has no problems whatsoever.

[Joe Appierto]

Excusez-moi, monsieur.

I will try to not go off topic again, Philippe.

[Puma Cat]

It's no biggie....no worries....

[Joe Appierto]

It's no biggie....no worries....

Thanks. Being the new kid on the block, I didn't want to start off on the wrong foot. You guys have been both kind and very helpful.

[Rafale]

Excusez-moi, monsieur.

I will try to not go off topic again, Philippe.

Hey Joe.....just kidding
You are obviously welcome :yes:

[Rafale]

Joe .....we would be very happy to see your prem 140 :thumbsup:, let him enter!

[Rafale]

btw does anybody know why CJ has never built and marketed a 845 or 300B amplifier ?

[Joe Appierto]

Joe .....we would be very happy to see your prem 140 :thumbsup:, let him enter!

Hi Philippe,

My Premier 140 is out of commission at the moment but I'm attaching a couple of older photos I have of it (one with KT-120s). There's also a shot of the 11A with them as well.

Enjoy. :)

Regards,

[joeinid]

Very nice Joe!

Thanks for the pictures.

[Puma Cat]

Hi Philippe,

My Premier 140 is out of commission at the moment but I'm attaching a couple of older photos I have of it (one with KT-120s). There's also a shot of the 11A with them as well.

Enjoy. :)

Regards,

The Premier 11A looks familiar!

Here's mine with Genalex Gold Lion KT88s...

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/fujif31andf20photos/BoardsNBlocks-3.jpg

[Rafale]

Great pics.....these amplifiers are magnificent, if I listened to myself, I would dash into a collection....., I like prem11 and Prem140, I always found this last one particularly impressive
thanks Joe and Stephen, your photos do justice to the quality of manufacturing of CJ gear

[Puma Cat]

I don't have my Premier 11A anymore, I sold it to my very good friend, Paolo, who is now really enjoying it. His father is an audiophile and is quite envious.

[Rafale]

guys how do you like the Prem 140 ?

[Joe Appierto]

guys how do you like the Prem 140 ?

Well… it’s a different animal from the 11A although the family resemblance is most definitely there. On a fundamental level, there’s the 140 wpc vs. the 70 of the 11A which you can hear in the 140’s more solid and articulate bass response. IMO the Premier 140 also throws a deeper and wider sound stage, which is something the 11A is no slouch at to begin with. The 140 just does it better. The 140 also reveals more low level detail than the 11A.

The older model, on the other hand (and isn’t there always the other hand?), has a just wonderful sense of timing that I think the 140 doesn’t have to the same degree. The 11A has a sweeter sound which I think derives from the small signal tubes: it uses two 5751s and two 6FQ7s while the 140 has the single 6922 and the two 6H30s.

From a financial point of view, those 6H30s are a blessing in a way. There’s only one manufacturer (Sovtek/EH) and only two grades: the EB which you can get for around $50 each and the DR which has gotten really expensive and are now over $100 each. Plus there’s only the single 6922 so even if you go to town, it’s only the one you're splurging on. On the downside, of course, you need eight output tubes so depending on what you like that can add up as well.

The 11A is a lovely amp to listen to and it doesn’t disappoint. Bottom line though, my amp of choice between the two is the Premier 140. I prefer its more neutral and detailed sound.

Have you had a chance to listen to them? What’s your opinion of them?

[Rafale]

Joe.....I was never lucky to listen to Prem140 or Prem11 but I possessed a MV60SE and he must be rather close to the Prem11

[Regnad]

Hello and Happy Holidays! Jumping in.

First post and first time Conrad Johnson user with a question or two that I hoped you nice folks could help me with...

I'm auditioning a pair of LP275M amps and think that they sound wonderful. I am surprised that there is not more information or reviews on these amps, even the CJ website does not seem to show them. So, what's the story? What is the "tribal knowledge" on them?

The ones I have are 2-3 years old with original tubes, I would really appreciate any advice on what 6922 and 6550 tubes might be best.

Thanks!

[chessman]

Regnad, welcome aboard! :wave:

[Puma Cat]

Hello and Happy Holidays! Jumping in.

First post and first time Conrad Johnson user with a question or two that I hoped you nice folks could help me with...

I'm auditioning a pair of LP275M amps and think that they sound wonderful. I am surprised that there is not more information or reviews on these amps, even the CJ website does not seem to show them. So, what's the story? What is the "tribal knowledge" on them?

The ones I have are 2-3 years old with original tubes, I would really appreciate any advice on what 6922 and 6550 tubes might be best.

Thanks!

There were very few press reviews on the LP-series of amps. There was one in Hi-Fi+ some while back that was very postive. But nothing you don't already know from auditioning them. If you think they're wonderful, I'd get them. Regarding tubes, I have an LP70S and it is the same circuit as the LP275Ms; just fewer output tubes. I've found the Ediswan 6922s work well in the input stage, and I've upgraded my 6550s to the new Tung-Sol KT120s with excellent results. That being said, my LP70S always sounded excellent with the stock C-J tubes.

[joeinid]

Hi Regnad,

:welcome2.::pg2:

Welcome to the forums!

[Coppy]

Hello and Happy Holidays! Jumping in.

First post and first time Conrad Johnson user with a question or two that I hoped you nice folks could help me with...

I'm auditioning a pair of LP275M amps and think that they sound wonderful. I am surprised that there is not more information or reviews on these amps, even the CJ website does not seem to show them. So, what's the story? What is the "tribal knowledge" on them?

The ones I have are 2-3 years old with original tubes, I would really appreciate any advice on what 6922 and 6550 tubes might be best.

Thanks!

Hi Regnad... welcome!

I'm running the LP140 Monos and am very satisfied. The series started with the 70 and the 140s and then for a period the 275s... all great amps with similar circuits.

The new ART monos replaced the 275s as they would have been an overlap in the product line... but the 275s were and are terrific. As good as it gets south of the ARTs. I believe the 70/140 series was replaced by the current models to allow them to compete at a lower price point in this economy. Case work alone accounts for a significant amount of the cost... have you seen the new D'Agostino monos at $45K for instance. Beautiful, but half that price is cosmetics.

If you like the power and that many tubes, make a deal on those amps your listening to. Also, inquire if they have had the factory mod to the input tube circuit. It makes the amp less sensitive to the absolute quality of that V1 driver tube.

Bob

[jimtranr]

Hello and Happy Holidays! Jumping in.

First post and first time Conrad Johnson user!

Welcome aboard, Regnad. Will be interested in your take on the 275's as you give them more of a workout.

[turntable]

Hello and Happy Holidays! Jumping in.

First post and first time Conrad Johnson user with a question or two that I hoped you nice folks could help me with...

I'm auditioning a pair of LP275M amps and think that they sound wonderful. I am surprised that there is not more information or reviews on these amps, even the CJ website does not seem to show them. So, what's the story? What is the "tribal knowledge" on them?

The ones I have are 2-3 years old with original tubes, I would really appreciate any advice on what 6922 and 6550 tubes might be best.

Thanks!

Welcome Regnad

I run the prem 8a's with the cj teflon upgrade.the BIG cj power amps are awesome!! the stk tubes are very very good.

Personally I would stay with the same input tubes that cj use - you have plenty of time to tube roll if you want to later.
The 6550's are more problamatic. the factory supplied Svet winghed C's are now hard to get and quite expensive - they sound wonderful.
I use the current production Tung Sol 6550's and they are very good and a LOT cheaper - not sure if they are better that the Svet, but I don't hunger for a change any time soon.

As Stephen said, there is the KT120's now - can't comment as I have not heard them. Personally I don't need any more bass, so these tubes are not a priority for me - but with 16 + 2 spare output tubes, it can get pricey no matter what.

[Regnad]

Thanks for the kind welcome.

I was using Parasound JC-1s and my speakers are inefficient so tubes are a problem. My dealer leant me the 275s and they work well but are power-hungry and hot and higher maintenance so I think I'll have to keep the JC-1s.

I can't imagine the 275s sitting there when it's 110 here in So California. So, summer and winter amps? I'll have to see how good a price I can get.

Thanks again for the advice and Happy New Year!

[turntable]

Thanks for the kind welcome.

I was using Parasound JC-1s and my speakers are inefficient so tubes are a problem. My dealer leant me the 275s and they work well but are power-hungry and hot and higher maintenance so I think I'll have to keep the JC-1s.

I can't imagine the 275s sitting there when it's 110 here in So California. So, summer and winter amps? I'll have to see how good a price I can get.

Thanks again for the advice and Happy New Year!

If they sound better in your system, it may well be worth the heat. It was in my case. The only maintenance you will need is to replace the tubes every 3 years or so and switch them off and on.

cheers

[Puma Cat]

Thanks for the kind welcome.

I was using Parasound JC-1s and my speakers are inefficient so tubes are a problem. My dealer leant me the 275s and they work well but are power-hungry and hot and higher maintenance so I think I'll have to keep the JC-1s.

I can't imagine the 275s sitting there when it's 110 here in So California. So, summer and winter amps? I'll have to see how good a price I can get.

Thanks again for the advice and Happy New Year!

Welcome, Regnad!

Efficiency won't be an issue with 275 Wpc on tap, nor will tube reliability.

It gets up to 110 inside your house in SoCal? :scratch2:

[Regnad]

Thanks!

I have 82db current-hungry MBLs and, yes, my living room might reach 110 in summertime even with A/C with the 275s!

[Puma Cat]

Thanks!

I have 82db current-hungry MBLs and, yes, my living room might reach 110 in summertime even with A/C with the 275s!

Whew! I can see why you'd be concerned, then.