Questions for Peter - Page 2

TommyC · #11 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 04:58 AM

Yes, thank you! This is very good info that I'll come back to for reference.

jprice · #12 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 09:42 AM

Peter, you have been very helpful - now in response to this question - and in the past when I have spoken with you on the telephone in other situations. Your knowledge is vast, your willingness to "help" is superb, and your products are incredible.

As a very satisfied user of your "stuff" I recommend you highly and unquestionably.

Julian Price

C220MC275 · #13 (**permalink**) 03-27-2010, 12:49 PM

Hi Peter,
I have 3 questions regarding isolation of speakers and amplifiers :
1- my speakers are PMC EB1i like many here. They are resting on a suspended floor so it is very resonant. I saw almost everyone uses Svelte platforms. Are they the best for speakers in your line ?
2- my speakers have a plinth ( I read your post on that subject with great interest) : so I suppose that I should use an isolation device between the plinth and the platform. Which one should I choose ? Rollerblock juniors, HSE, .... I ' m a bit lost with all your products
3- which platform / coupling devices should I choose with big tube amplifiers like Mc 2301 ? they are now on regular single stands next to each speakers.

Thank you very much for your help,
Cheers
Jerome

Masterlu · #14 (**permalink**) 03-27-2010, 12:54 PM

I radio'd Peter, so he will chime in soon!

C220MC275 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-27-2010, 01:23 PM

Thanks Master !

Pyro · #16 (**permalink**) 03-27-2010, 02:09 PM

Jerome,

Did you see my post here. http://audioaficionado.org/symposium...html#post66936

They are the svette shelves. I will be moving them to my PMC OB1i's soon and replacing them with the svette plus shelves.

Also I had great results with rollerblock jr's under my MS 750 and MDA1K. Liked them so much I recently ordered 3 more sets for the rest of my sources.

Rob

C220MC275 · #17 (**permalink**) 03-27-2010, 02:54 PM

Yes Rob I saw it.
My concern was regarding the fact that the EB1i have a plinth so it could be better to use rollerblocks between the plinth and the Svelte ?
They have a strong bass. I don't imagine putting them on the floor without some kind of decoupling device.
Cheers
Jerome

Pyro · #18 (**permalink**) 03-29-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Yes Rob I saw it.
My concern was regarding the fact that the EB1i have a plinth so it could be better to use rollerblocks between the plinth and the Svelte ?
They have a strong bass. I don't imagine putting them on the floor without some kind of decoupling device.
Cheers
Jerome

It was my understanding that the plinth should remain connected to the cabinet to maintain the original engineered sound. I never did try using the rollerblocks under my speakers. Can't afford the risk of the dogs bumping into them and knocking them off or over.

Rob

Symposium · #19 (**permalink**) 03-29-2010, 05:30 PM

Hi Jerome,

Thanks for your thoughtful questions; I'll do my best to provide some good answers.

The best platform for speakers in our line is generally the Super Plus. The Super Plus is a powerful enhancement and ally for any good loudspeaker, be it planar, electrostat, or dynamic, large or small. A skeptical owner of a recording studio near Chicago recently ordered a pair for his large Dunlavy SC-V monitors and fairly wigged out at the improvement in sound!

However, since the Super Plus can be somewhat pricey, especially in the larger sizes, the Svelte and Svelte Plus Platforms are the most popular solutions for most installations because of their lower cost, great effectiveness, and thin demeanor, which minimally impacts tweeter height.

By the way, the general rule of thumb is that the firmer the flooring, the better a platform will "perform" with any loudspeaker. While a full platform, in my opinion, usually results in the most dramatic improvements in a loudspeaker's performance, this performance is compromised if the carpeting (the bane of mechanical grounding!) is too thick. In those cases, best results will be realized by spiking through the carpet into the firm underlayment - wood, stone, concrete, whatever - and then placing the platform on top of these cones. This provides an excellent "DC" ground path through the platform and completely eliminates the carpet as a reactive element in the speaker system.

Regarding your speaker's plinth, it's best to isolate the plinth from the resonance-cancelling power of the Svelte with some kind of hard footer device, such as a cone. The plinth of a loudspeaker is contributing to the overall resonant character of the loudspeaker, and if the Svelte is used directly against this plinth, it will "kill" the resonance of the structure, which can change the tonal balance of the loudspeaker. Using cones or some other kind of limited-isolation footer between the Svelte and the plinth will preserve the resonant quality of the plinth (something originally included in the designer's voicing of the speaker) but will provide a mechanical ground path for excess energy to drain into the Svelte or other platform, resulting in superior sonic performance from the speaker. Rollerblock Jr. will also work well in this function since it acts, like a cone, as a conductor of mechanical energy, but can further improve performance because of its accompanying ability to isolate and damp extreme low frequency waves, something no cone can do. This is quite important, since bass waves return to the speaker through the floor and can shake the speaker even as it is trying to produce music. This is the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome, and the Rollerblock is notable in this regard since it can completely break this kind of feedback loop, resulting in cleaner, more accurate bass transients, and lowered intermodulation distortion.

If a platform isn't feasible, you can also improve most speakers with just a set of standard Rollerblock Jr., but if you have hard flooring, the Grade 10 Tungsten bearings will further improve performance, especially in the bass area. For best results, HDSE is our premium grade Rollerblock Jr., with a special 7075 alloy body and "Hard Coat" harder-than-steel anodized skin, and comes with the G10 bearings. These embellishments improve mechanical ground path efficiency, so if you have a hard floor (as opposed to carpet), you'll appreciate the HDSE version. However, if you have a very thick carpet, the standard Jrs will probably work nearly as well, since there isn't an effective mechanical ground through carpet fiber.

Another alternative to the usual cone is a point isolator system; for this, you might consider a set of the Precision Couplers with a stainless steel setscrew in the 1/4" threaded hole machined in the top of the Coupler. These provide an affordable, effective and non-resonant point isolation for components. They won't isolate from low frequencies like Rollerblocks, but would be appropriate for preserving the resonant character of a loudspeaker plinth between the plinth and the Svelte. You can also use a 1/2" chromium or Tungsten ball (as used with Rollerblocks), set in the threaded hole, as a stationary ball isolator with superior transmission characteristics and better neutrality than devices which use ceramic balls.

For any amplifier, the easy answer to your last question is to use an Ultra Platform! These are great with all components and improve bass quality, timbral resolution, noise background, dynamics, harmonic richness, and other aspects of sound reproduction. I don't know what kind of "single stands" you have now, but you can use the Ultra Platform with them with great effectiveness, since the Ultra will isolate and damp not only your component but will also damp the stand.

If an Ultra isn't feasible, I'd recommend a set of Ultra Padz, since these will work quite well with large amplifiers, and provide many of the benefits that a full platform will provide, or a set of Rollerblock Jr. + or HDSE. With better amplifiers, we find that Tungsten Carbide bearings make meaningful improvements, especially in bass quality and imaging specificity.

I hope this has been helpful; if I've overlooked anything or if anything isn't clear, please let me know!

C220MC275 · #20 (**permalink**) 03-30-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symposium

Hi Jerome,

Thanks for your thoughtful questions; I'll do my best to provide some good answers.

The best platform for speakers in our line is generally the Super Plus. The Super Plus is a powerful enhancement and ally for any good loudspeaker, be it planar, electrostat, or dynamic, large or small. A skeptical owner of a recording studio near Chicago recently ordered a pair for his large Dunlavy SC-V monitors and fairly wigged out at the improvement in sound!

However, since the Super Plus can be somewhat pricey, especially in the larger sizes, the Svelte and Svelte Plus Platforms are the most popular solutions for most installations because of their lower cost, great effectiveness, and thin demeanor, which minimally impacts tweeter height.

By the way, the general rule of thumb is that the firmer the flooring, the better a platform will "perform" with any loudspeaker. While a full platform, in my opinion, usually results in the most dramatic improvements in a loudspeaker's performance, this performance is compromised if the carpeting (the bane of mechanical grounding!) is too thick. In those cases, best results will be realized by spiking through the carpet into the firm underlayment - wood, stone, concrete, whatever - and then placing the platform on top of these cones. This provides an excellent "DC" ground path through the platform and completely eliminates the carpet as a reactive element in the speaker system.

Regarding your speaker's plinth, it's best to isolate the plinth from the resonance-cancelling power of the Svelte with some kind of hard footer device, such as a cone. The plinth of a loudspeaker is contributing to the overall resonant character of the loudspeaker, and if the Svelte is used directly against this plinth, it will "kill" the resonance of the structure, which can change the tonal balance of the loudspeaker. Using cones or some other kind of limited-isolation footer between the Svelte and the plinth will preserve the resonant quality of the plinth (something originally included in the designer's voicing of the speaker) but will provide a mechanical ground path for excess energy to drain into the Svelte or other platform, resulting in superior sonic performance from the speaker. Rollerblock Jr. will also work well in this function since it acts, like a cone, as a conductor of mechanical energy, but can further improve performance because of its accompanying ability to isolate and damp extreme low frequency waves, something no cone can do. This is quite important, since bass waves return to the speaker through the floor and can shake the speaker even as it is trying to produce music. This is the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome, and the Rollerblock is notable in this regard since it can completely break this kind of feedback loop, resulting in cleaner, more accurate bass transients, and lowered intermodulation distortion.

If a platform isn't feasible, you can also improve most speakers with just a set of standard Rollerblock Jr., but if you have hard flooring, the Grade 10 Tungsten bearings will further improve performance, especially in the bass area. For best results, HDSE is our premium grade Rollerblock Jr., with a special 7075 alloy body and "Hard Coat" harder-than-steel anodized skin, and comes with the G10 bearings. These embellishments improve mechanical ground path efficiency, so if you have a hard floor (as opposed to carpet), you'll appreciate the HDSE version. However, if you have a very thick carpet, the standard Jrs will probably work nearly as well, since there isn't an effective mechanical ground through carpet fiber.

Another alternative to the usual cone is a point isolator system; for this, you might consider a set of the Precision Couplers with a stainless steel setscrew in the 1/4" threaded hole machined in the top of the Coupler. These provide an affordable, effective and non-resonant point isolation for components. They won't isolate from low frequencies like Rollerblocks, but would be appropriate for preserving the resonant character of a loudspeaker plinth between the plinth and the Svelte. You can also use a 1/2" chromium or Tungsten ball (as used with Rollerblocks), set in the threaded hole, as a stationary ball isolator with superior transmission characteristics and better neutrality than devices which use ceramic balls.

For any amplifier, the easy answer to your last question is to use an Ultra Platform! These are great with all components and improve bass quality, timbral resolution, noise background, dynamics, harmonic richness, and other aspects of sound reproduction. I don't know what kind of "single stands" you have now, but you can use the Ultra Platform with them with great effectiveness, since the Ultra will isolate and damp not only your component but will also damp the stand.

If an Ultra isn't feasible, I'd recommend a set of Ultra Padz, since these will work quite well with large amplifiers, and provide many of the benefits that a full platform will provide, or a set of Rollerblock Jr. + or HDSE. With better amplifiers, we find that Tungsten Carbide bearings make meaningful improvements, especially in bass quality and imaging specificity.

I hope this has been helpful; if I've overlooked anything or if anything isn't clear, please let me know!

Hi Peter,

Thank you very much for your answers.
I get a better understanding of your products each day.
If I use Rollerblocks, either under or above the platform; I'm afraid of some instability that could be dangerous with kids.
So I'm thinking about Soundcare Superspikes. They have the advantages of spikes, but without instability.
I have a suspended floor, very resonant, covered by a thick carpet : so that's probably the worst kind of surface you're mentionning !
I understood very well the importance of the plinth of my speakers in their "voicing".
So I'm now thinking for my speakers about a 3 stages system :
- Superspikes are mounted on the speaker's plinth
- A Svelte plus or better platform under the superspikes
- cones under the platform to contact directly the ground, through the carpet.
This leads to an other question : is it possible to have 4 cones drilled and attached to the platform I will choose while ordering ? I' m not good at drilling and I don't want any kind of instability between the cone bases and the platform. Or Maybe I could simply glue the cone bases directly to the platform.
For the amps, I will choose depending on the total price, between the Ultra Platform and either :
- Ultra Fatz Pads
- Rollerblocks Jr HDSE
But could you tell me what's the difference between Fatz Pads and Rollerblocks, in terms of sonic results ?

Thanks in advance,

Cheers,

Jérôme

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