Bob -- All things are relative.

I didn't ask Ivan to turn off the subs. The intent of my visit was to experience his systems at their best so nothing was taken out of the equation. As I think I said, the SF's would have sounded good without the subs, but with them it was ever so nice. To my ear, whenever well integrated subs are used they never call attention to themselves but help smooth out the presentation. Will he need the subs day one with the Elipsa's, no. But if it were me, I'd sure have them planned in my upgrade path.

__________________
Dennis

MX119, MC501 (2), MC207, MCD500, MS750
Pioneer BDP-95FD
ML Ascents, Theater, Fresco, Descent

Thanks -- I was curious more than anything if your auditioning impression of "GREAT" with the subs happened to compare the SF's w/o a sub & if it did, would the SF's then just have been "GREat." I couldn't ascertain that w/o asking.

Bob

__________________
Amps: MC2301 tube mono's/dedicated 20A breakers.
Preamp: C500C/C500T
Digital Source: MCD1100 CD/SACD
Analogue Sources: SME 20/2 w/SME V arm and Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences.
Vibration Control: Nordost "TC" Sort Kones under CD/SACD & C500 and "AC" under amps. Shakti stones on amps.
Speakers: Sonus Faber Stradivari
Power Isolation: Isoclean PT-3030G III 3KVA Isolation Transformer w/Isoclean Super Focus In/Out Cables.
Power Bar: Isoclean ICP 206 Non-Filtered Power Bar.
Power Cables: Wireworld Platinum Electra on amps, preamp, CD/SACD.
Power Outlets: Isoclean ICP-003 Power Wall Socket.
Speaker Cables: Wireworld Platinum Eclipse
Signal Cables: WireWorld Platinum Eclipse XLR's on MCD500 & C500T to MC2301's.
Headphones: Sennheiser HD-650's and Koss Pro IV AA.
Tube Test Gear: Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A & current SOTA MaxiMatcher tube test sets.

I think we can safely say the Strads with Fathoms were GRRRRREAT.

__________________
Dan


Living Room System: McIntosh C2300, MC601 (2), MCD1100, MS750, MR85, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD-40, Ortofon 2M Black, Sonos ZP90, Oppo BDP-83SE Blu-ray, PMC EB1i, Fathom f113 w/ Sound Anchor stand, Power Plant Premier (2), PS Audio Soloist Premier SE (3), Rollerblock Jr.'s, Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's & PC's, Kimber 8TC with WBT Solid Silver Angled Locking Banana Connectors.
Studio System: McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MCD1100, MR88, Michell Gyro SE w/SME 309/Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonos ZP90, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Soloist Premier SE, Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario, Rollerblock Jr.'s, Wireword Silver Eclipse IC's & PC's, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable.
Studio Home Theater System: McIntosh MX120, MC452, Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray, PS Audio Soloist Premier SE, JBL LSR-6332 (2), JBL LSR-6328P (3), McIntosh XLS112 (2), Sony 52XBR9, Tributaries Silver IC's, Wireworld PC's.
Vintage: McIntosh MA5100, MR74 tuner, JVC XL-Z1050 K2 CD player, Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, Tandberg 3008A and 3026A, JBL4312A , McIntosh 4300V for deck speakers.

OverKill IMO. But then I don't listen at 120db neither.

Bob

__________________
Amps: MC2301 tube mono's/dedicated 20A breakers.
Preamp: C500C/C500T
Digital Source: MCD1100 CD/SACD
Analogue Sources: SME 20/2 w/SME V arm and Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences.
Vibration Control: Nordost "TC" Sort Kones under CD/SACD & C500 and "AC" under amps. Shakti stones on amps.
Speakers: Sonus Faber Stradivari
Power Isolation: Isoclean PT-3030G III 3KVA Isolation Transformer w/Isoclean Super Focus In/Out Cables.
Power Bar: Isoclean ICP 206 Non-Filtered Power Bar.
Power Cables: Wireworld Platinum Electra on amps, preamp, CD/SACD.
Power Outlets: Isoclean ICP-003 Power Wall Socket.
Speaker Cables: Wireworld Platinum Eclipse
Signal Cables: WireWorld Platinum Eclipse XLR's on MCD500 & C500T to MC2301's.
Headphones: Sennheiser HD-650's and Koss Pro IV AA.
Tube Test Gear: Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A & current SOTA MaxiMatcher tube test sets.

Hey I'm with you got to ask! The only other thing I can share is when I'd heard the Strads before they were with different electronics and no subs. During that demo, I thought they sounded good but not great. I think the electronics were probably more to blame than the lack of subs.

__________________
Dennis

MX119, MC501 (2), MC207, MCD500, MS750
Pioneer BDP-95FD
ML Ascents, Theater, Fresco, Descent

This endorcement has been approved by Tony!

__________________
Dennis

MX119, MC501 (2), MC207, MCD500, MS750
Pioneer BDP-95FD
ML Ascents, Theater, Fresco, Descent

It all depends on the room. As I said earlier the sub was not necessary with my Elipsa's and I prefered the sound without a sub. The truth is Ivan has the subs dialed way down with his strads. Ivans systems are examples of the best in the world so don't go by him unless you are ready to spend close to 7 figures. I could buy a vacation home Florida with just his cable bill. .

+1
I don't listen at 100db.

__________________
AMP's: D'Agostino Momentum's
Pre Amp: Mcintosh C-1000 & C-1000P
Sources: McIntosh MCD-1100 & MS-300, Olive 4HD, SonoS, Pro-Ject 6 PerspeX
Speakers: MBL 111F
Cables: Transparent Ultra MM2 & Reference MM2 & Powerlink MM2x

I agree he has them dialed way down but that doesn't negate the role they play. Nor do you need to go to Ivan’s extremes to achieve 90 – 95% of what he has. Clean power, good cables, good electronics and a well treated room will yield impressive results. I think with a budget of $65k, I could build an Elipsa-based system that would come as close to Ivan’s as a system could that did not use Strads. With a budget of $115K I could build a very comparable system. In this hobby you pay dearly for those last few percent of improvement. If you’re wondering about my numbers here they are:

Elipsa/Strads $25,000.00 $48,000.00
501s/2300s $10,000.00 $22,000.00
C2300/C500 $6,000.00 $12,000.00
JL112/212 $5,000.00 $12,000.00
MCD500 $6,500.00 $6,500.00
PPP $2,000.00 $4,000.00
Cables $5,000.00 $5,000.00
Treatments $5,000.00 $5,000.00
$64,500.00 $114,500.00

__________________
Dennis

MX119, MC501 (2), MC207, MCD500, MS750
Pioneer BDP-95FD
ML Ascents, Theater, Fresco, Descent

Personally I much prefer my REL sub with the Strads in my largish room, 26 x 20.

Then again my cj prem8a's don't have the same bass drive as some other amps. Funny when I tried out the ML 33h's and Gryphon Collseum I preferred the sub with them as well.

Overall, the room dictates your choices more than anything and the luv of some bass slam!!

__________________
Turntables: Pioneer Exclusive P3, TW Acustik AC-3 / Graham Phantom, Linn LP12/ Naim ARO Phono: TW Acustik, Pioneer H-Z1, Luxman E-06, Leben & Ortofon Verto stepup, Cartridges: Lyra ATLAS, Dynavector XV-1s, SPU Royal & Classic E, Ortofon A90, Linn Troika, Technics EPC100Cmk4, Koetsu Rosewood, 2 x ebony denon 103r's amps: cj GAT, cj prem8a with teflon caps,speaker: Wilson Maxx 3