PMC PB1i - Page 2

wpines · #11 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy

The PMC EB1i's have a factory retail price of $15,220.00. Most PMC dealers are willing to discount that suggested retail price, and $10K+ is not to difficult a deal to find. PMC had planned to raise prices 15% across the board last year, and then did not do it. The EB1i has not seen a price increase since its introduction in 2008, so it does not seem unreasonable to me to see a price increase coming down the pike this year. Still, even if street prices for PMC's EB1i go up to $11,500.00 a pair, it is still an amazing bargain for a speaker as good as this. In my opinion, at full retail price the PMC EB1i is worth every penny, and then some.

$15,220 huh
"Worth every penny and then some?

3 rather ordinary drivers in a cabinet that's unremarkable.
I think we go a little too far championing our favorite brands.
I love, love love these Salon2's that currently live in my home but they are in no way "worth every penny and then some".
the eminently quotable pt barnum comes to mind.......

PHC1 · #12 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 09:21 PM

I've never auditioned PMC but I keep reading about the midrange being a bit too enthusiastic in various reviews.

Comments like " Installing the EB1i in place of the more expensive B&W 802D brought about a fairly big change in balance. Essentially the midrange seemed more prominent, a factor that had a dramatic effect on albums like Gillian Welch’s Time The Revelator. This recording has often hinted at a slight edginess but in the PMC’s hands became almost uncomfortable due to that exposure through the midband."

PMC owners, what are your thoughts on this? Have you noticed a too prominent midrange with your speakers?

jdandy · #13 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpines

$15,220 huh
"Worth every penny and then some?

3 rather ordinary drivers in a cabinet that's unremarkable.
I think we go a little too far championing our favorite brands.
I love, love love these Salon2's that currently live in my home but they are in no way "worth every penny and then some".
the eminently quotable pt barnum comes to mind.......

Brad....... When I was auditioning speakers before purchasing the PMC's, I listened to many speaker lines with price ranges well in excess of the retail price of the PMC EB1i speakers, including speakers from Focal, B&W, Wilson, McIntosh, JBL, and others. There are many great speakers from a wide assortment of manufacturers. My thrill at discovering the EB1i's is they outperformed many speakers that were priced considerably higher, with whatever "exotic" driver designs employed, i.e. diamond dust tweeters, inverted or otherwise beryllium domes, aluminum drivers, or whatever. The drivers in the EB1i are far from "rather ordinary", but that is just my view point, and a large number of other PMC owners and professional users around the world, as well. I haven't found another speaker under $20,000 that impresses me more. When we get above $25,000 there are a number of other speakers that impress me greatly, the Wilson Sasha to name one, but the present performance I am enjoying from my PMC's is satisfying enough to keep them in my main system for now. All that really matters is that I am happy with my PMC EB1i speakers. If you enjoy your Revel's, and believe that is a remarkable cabinet design, then it's a wonderful thing. It ultimately comes down to each their own. That's what makes this such a wonderful hobby. There is something for everyone.

You may find the EB1i cabinet unremarkable, but if looked at as a well executed design concept, the beauty comes shining through. Inside is a 17' length of transmission line tunnel ending in a tuned expansion chamber at the end. This well crafted design concept has beauty that is not seen from the outside. Perhaps the simple appearance of the PMC's rectangular cabinet doesn't set your heart to fluttering like Revel's rounded nouveau edges, but the cabinet and its concept are no where near unremarkable in my opinion. The cabinets were not designed to be flashy, they were designed to embrace specific performance perimeters, and they achieve their goal admirably.

As for the worth of a particular speaker, it is strictly the opinion of the individual who writes the check. Value is highly subjective. One man's garbage is another man's treasure. And regarding the PT Barnum comment, there is little doubt we are all suckers in someones eyes. I don't dwell on it since it is pointless. The key is to not under estimate the wrong individual.

jdandy · #14 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHC1

I've never auditioned PMC but I keep reading about the midrange being a bit too enthusiastic in various reviews.

Comments like " Installing the EB1i in place of the more expensive B&W 802D brought about a fairly big change in balance. Essentially the midrange seemed more prominent, a factor that had a dramatic effect on albums like Gillian Welch’s Time The Revelator. This recording has often hinted at a slight edginess but in the PMC’s hands became almost uncomfortable due to that exposure through the midband."

PMC owners, what are your thoughts on this? Have you noticed a too prominent midrange with your speakers?

Serge.......I read the same review, and the reviewer goes on to say that when the speakers were relocated in his room from his original location, he arrived at a much smoother sound, and a different opinion.

Both of my main listening rooms have been treated with acoustic panels and bass traps, and it has not been my experience to move from listening to the Guarneri Momento's in the studio to the EB1i's in the living room, and suddenly find the mid range makes my ears bleed. The PMC EB1i's are no different than every other speaker when it comes to interacting with room boundries and acoustic properties. A well set up pair of speakers in an acoustically treated room will generally always sound better than the same speakers haphazardly placed. I move from the PMC's to the Guarneri Momento's, to the JBL LSR's, and back again without finding myself offended by any unusual acoustic anomalies. To answer your question, I do not experience any mid range brightness issues with my PMC's. They present a very smooth, full range audio experience for me.

PHC1 · #15 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......I read the same review, and the reviewer goes on to say that when the speakers were relocated in his room from his original location, he arrived at a much smoother sound, and a different opinion.

Both of my main listening rooms have been treated with acoustic panels and bass traps, and it has not been my experience to move from listening to the Guarneri Momento's in the studio to the EB1i's in the living room, and suddenly find the mid range makes my ears bleed. The PMC EB1i's are no different than every other speaker when it comes to interacting with room boundries and acoustic properties. A well set up pair of speakers in an acoustically treated room will generally always sound better than the same speakers haphazardly placed. I move from the PMC's to the Guarneri Momento's, to the JBL LSR's, and back again without finding myself offended by any unusual acoustic anomalies. To answer your question, I do not experience any mid range brightness issues with my PMC's. They present a very smooth, full range audio experience for me.

Ok, good to know Dan. I wonder what the reviewer's room is like in terms of acoustics.

Double F · #16 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 11:57 PM

Dan, I agree with you on the PMC sound. It is a speaker I can close my eyes with and actually feel I'm at a live performance. Back in November I picked up a used pair of Focal Electra 1027 be. They looked beautiful with the dark signature finish and the black glass top. Matched my Mac stuff great.
I wanted to love them and the beryllium tweeter made me feel I would. For 2 weeks they were in the system and no matter what adjustments were made they sucked. I put the PMC back in the system and could not get rid of them fast enough

I am not saying they are bad speakers but they never conveyed the sense of a live performance. It could also be the listen room was not big enough.

PHC1 · #17 (**permalink**) 01-28-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double F

Dan, I agree with you on the PMC sound. It is a speaker I can close my eyes with and actually feel I'm at a live performance. Back in November I picked up a used pair of Focal Electra 1027 be. They looked beautiful with the dark signature finish and the black glass top. Matched my Mac stuff great.
I wanted to love them and the beryllium tweeter made me feel I would. For 2 weeks they were in the system and no matter what adjustments were made they sucked. I put the PMC back in the system and could not get rid of them fast enough

I am not saying they are bad speakers but they never conveyed the sense of a live performance. It could also be the listen room was not big enough.

Two weeks may not be nearly enough time to let the speakers break in if they were new. Especially a tweeter that is beyllium.... Unless you bought them pre-owned and already broken in?

Double F · #18 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHC1

Two weeks may not be nearly enough time to let the speakers break in if they were new. Especially a tweeter that is beyllium.... Unless you bought them pre-owned and already broken in?

They were used and the previous owner told me they were played on a regular basis. Focal should do break-in at the factory to avoid potential customer's choosing another brand based on a showroom demo with other speakers.

PHC1 · #19 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double F

They were used and the previous owner told me they were played on a regular basis. Focal should do break-in at the factory to avoid potential customer's choosing another brand based on a showroom demo with other speakers.

Every speaker manufacturer should. It is not very practical though as some speakers take in excess of 600 hrs to completely open up and sound relaxed.

I guess they just didn't fit into your system or your preference if they were already well broken in.

wpines · #20 (**permalink**) 01-29-2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy

Brad....... When I was auditioning speakers before purchasing the PMC's, I listened to many speaker lines with price ranges well in excess of the retail price of the PMC EB1i speakers, including speakers from Focal, B&W, Wilson, McIntosh, JBL, and others. There are many great speakers from a wide assortment of manufacturers. My thrill at discovering the EB1i's is they outperformed many speakers that were priced considerably higher, with whatever "exotic" driver designs employed, i.e. diamond dust tweeters, inverted or otherwise beryllium domes, aluminum drivers, or whatever. The drivers in the EB1i are far from "rather ordinary", but that is just my view point, and a large number of other PMC owners and professional users around the world, as well. I haven't found another speaker under $20,000 that impresses me more. When we get above $25,000 there are a number of other speakers that impress me greatly, the Wilson Sasha to name one, but the present performance I am enjoying from my PMC's is satisfying enough to keep them in my main system for now. All that really matters is that I am happy with my PMC EB1i speakers. If you enjoy your Revel's, and believe that is a remarkable cabinet design, then it's a wonderful thing. It ultimately comes down to each their own. That's what makes this such a wonderful hobby. There is something for everyone.

You may find the EB1i cabinet unremarkable, but if looked at as a well executed design concept, the beauty comes shining through. Inside is a 17' length of transmission line tunnel ending in a tuned expansion chamber at the end. This well crafted design concept has beauty that is not seen from the outside. Perhaps the simple appearance of the PMC's rectangular cabinet doesn't set your heart to fluttering like Revel's rounded nouveau edges, but the cabinet and its concept are no where near unremarkable in my opinion. The cabinets were not designed to be flashy, they were designed to embrace specific performance perimeters, and they achieve their goal admirably.

As for the worth of a particular speaker, it is strictly the opinion of the individual who writes the check. Value is highly subjective. One man's garbage is another man's treasure. And regarding the PT Barnum comment, there is little doubt we are all suckers in someones eyes. I don't dwell on it since it is pointless. The key is to not under estimate the wrong individual.

Dan,
Reread my statement.
I wasn't comparing Revel to PMC and I wasn't slamming PMC.
What I was admittedly slamming was the overt rationalization of "full retail price the PMC EB1i is worth every penny, and then some" for what boils down to $1,000 worth of electronics in $1,000 worth of cabinet.
That leaves $13k for the "executed design concept". PT Barnum executed a design concept too.
Three ordinary drivers and an unremarkable cabinet is a description of dozens if not hundreds of the speakers we buy, not just PMC.
All of those boxes sound different and you like the sound of yours better but rationalizing $15,000 for 3 drivers in a wooden box with ANYBODY's badge on it is ridiculous.
Your defense of your brand preference is over the top.
$15,000 could feed a village for a year.

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