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MC501 Thermal Shutdown (part 2) MC501 Thermal Shutdown (part 2)
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 08:27 PM
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I don't recall Ron specifying that. I do recall Ron saying that the MEN220 doesn't add to the signal, only subtracts by flattening the peaks...
Sorry, I'm not that familiar with the MEN220, I wasn't aware that it only address the peaks and not the nulls. FYI, peaks in response are much more audible than nulls.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 08:28 PM
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The really odd thing here is not even the fact that the 501s run hotter but that each 501 has a bank of transistors working harder on one side of the sine wave than the other and both 501s have the same bank of transistors affected. Which leads me to believe the amplitude of the sine wave is different on either positive or negative swing.... That can only be processor related somehow...
Last edited by PHC1; 07-22-2010 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:29 PM
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Dan, it is very puzzling as I remember Ron-C saying the MEN220 does not add, only remove peaks to flatten the response curve.... You seem to be experiencing the opposite. Why one side of the balanced scheme of output transistors run hotter than the other side, I really can't imagine.... but can only suspect the MEN220's output wave.... I don't know the design of the MEN220 but I can only guess and this is a big guess, that the signal is higher in amplitude on one side over the other but it is pretty obvious the one bank of transistors is working harder than the other.... you probably would have heard it though... and I don't know if that's even possible in the MEN220.
Serge.......I have heard nothing unusual in the audio output to signal me that a problem existed. Had the amplifers not gone into thermal shut down I would not have known about any of these other peculiarities. Listening this evening sounds perfectly normal, with the MEN220 performing a nice improvement in my sound when set to Focus 1 - Voicing Neutral.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:38 PM
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Dan, other than a silly thing like your cables being defective which is highly unlikely but I did come across a pair that was wired wrong and threw my system out of phase.... I think with all the processing involved which probably involves phase shifts as well as A to D to A conversion, there is something going on in your MEN that is not healthy with the output wave... There is no other explanation for the difference in heatsinks temps in a balanced monoblock amplifier that works properly and is temp balanced without the men220 in the signal path...
Serge.......I had not thought about a possible phase reversal in the balanced cables. I will get the meter out and check all the cables, including the balanced cables to the f113 sub.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:38 PM
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Then you have connected it right, you haven't mentioned about the crossover settings.
Thanks
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:39 PM
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The really odd thing here is not even the fact that the 501s run hotter but that each 501 has a bank of transistors working harder on one side of the sine wave than the other and both 501s have the same bank of transistors affected. Which leads me to believe the amplitude of the sine wave is different on either positive or negative swing.... That can only be processor related somehow...
Good point -- and just thinking outloud, like many here -- still trying to suggest methods to isolate the problem down:

1. You have any RCA's laying around to run it unbalanced
2. Hate to even ask you to try in on the tube or HT system downstairs (but mentioned it anyway).

Bob
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 08:41 PM
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matt_zak.......Yes, I see that in the MEN220 specifications, but there is no switch or software selection for High Sensitivity or Low Sensitivity. This may be a typo in the manual, because typically a balanced input is twice the voltage of an unbalanced connection, and which one you choose governs the sensitivity.

I went back through the setup, and I am set for balanced cables. I am using both Output 1 and Output 2, and not outputs are set for full range. Output 1 feeds the left and right channel amplifiers, and Output 2 feeds the left and right channel inputs on my JL Audio Fathom f113 subwoofer. The output level settings for both Output 1 and Output 2 are set at 0.0 db. My delay settings are set to inches, and are correct for the distances. The Bypass output level is set at 0.0 dB. I have verified that all settings are correct.
Ok, then my theory is wrong lol. If the specs are right then you're using the "high" out put and it's a lower voltage.

When you add the MEN220 into the system what cables do you use? Have you tried swapping them with an extra pair if you have them?
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:06 PM
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Anytime one side of a quad balanced amp is hotter than the other you have a balance issue. Please run only the 501s + MEN220 with the input set to Balanced on MEN220 and no subs connected. We ship MEN set in unbalanced which if left this way will cause what you described when using balanced cables. Also make sure the balanced switch on the MC501 is set to balanced.
If everything now stays cool we will have to see what is going on with the subs.

Thanks,
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:08 PM
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Dan, at the risk of getting the same reaction from others that I did when I tried to make a suggestion in your other thread about the 501's overheating, why don't you (just for grins) try changing your speaker connections on the 501's to a lower impedance tap (i.e., if the speaker cables are now connected to the 8 ohm taps, go to 4; if they are now connected to 4, go to 2)?

No concrete theory here, just thinking out loud.

Edit: I would try Ron's suggestions first. He posted while I was typing.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-C View Post
Anytime one side of a quad balanced amp is hotter than the other you have a balance issue. Please run only the 501s + MEN220 with the input set to Balanced on MEN220 and no subs connected. We ship MEN set in unbalanced which if left this way will cause what you described when using balanced cables. Also make sure the balanced switch on the MC501 is set to balanced.
If everything now stays cool we will have to see what is going on with the subs.

Thanks,
Dan, hopefully this will solve the problem!
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