For you guys using a stereo pair of subs:

Do you have them pushed back in a corner or have you tried placing both the subs and speakers on the same plane?

I'm kinda bored today and the thought crossed my mind that having all the speakers on the same plane could/should/maybe have some impact, either good or bad on the presentation.

Gordon

__________________
Martin Logan Spire & JLAudio Fathom F112 (2)
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WireWorld 5^2 Eclipse speaker, 6.0 Eclipse IC, Silver Electra PCs
RealTraps (8)
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+, Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 Pits under speakers

There is no need to have your speakers and subs on the same plane. The wavelength of the frequencies are very different so they will arrive at your ear at different times. That does not mean that the corner is the best place, it is going to be a bit of trial and error 'till you find out how they best integrate the sound.
Jim

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AMP's: D'Agostino Momentum's
Pre Amp: Mcintosh C-1000 & C-1000P
Sources: McIntosh MCD-1100 & MS-300, Olive 4HD, SonoS, Pro-Ject 6 PerspeX
Speakers: MBL 111F
Cables: Transparent Ultra MM2 & Reference MM2 & Powerlink MM2x

Speakers and Subs ideally should be on the same plane and distance from the listening position.
http://audioaficionado.org/jl-audio/...html#post18914

Unless you are using a processor that will correct delay for the difference in distance.

Am using two F-112's placed next to main speakers and exactly the same distance from listening position for subs and speakers-Sounds great!.

I guess he doesn't believe in time aligned drivers.

Makes no sense to me.

__________________
AMP's: D'Agostino Momentum's
Pre Amp: Mcintosh C-1000 & C-1000P
Sources: McIntosh MCD-1100 & MS-300, Olive 4HD, SonoS, Pro-Ject 6 PerspeX
Speakers: MBL 111F
Cables: Transparent Ultra MM2 & Reference MM2 & Powerlink MM2x

It seems to me that one of the most important aspects of subwoofer integration is the phase relationship of the subwoofer's driver(s) to the main system's drivers. The key is to have the drivers moving in the same direction at the same instant.

__________________
Dan


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This may help-

Now the topic of “time alignment” as a whole applies the same laws of physics and acoustics to two very different arenas of system design. In one arena it pertains to the placement of speaker cabinets in relation to one another and their comparative distance from the listener. In this case you are aligning the arrival times of the sound coming from the various cabinets.

Time Alignment Part I

Don't get me wrong, the subs are blended very well right now and have no complaints, but if it can get better..........

Gordon

__________________
Martin Logan Spire & JLAudio Fathom F112 (2)
C1000/T, MD1K, MC501 (2) MR-88
WireWorld 5^2 Eclipse speaker, 6.0 Eclipse IC, Silver Electra PCs
RealTraps (8)
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+, Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 Pits under speakers

In my own room I've had better luck loading the room with subs in the corners and using the very flexible adjustments on the Fathom subs to blend them in seamlessly. The subs are more efficient loading the room from the corners and sound absolutely coherent and balanced with the main speakers. This is in my room YMMV, so do experiment.

I tried placing my two F113s at the front of the room in the same plane as my LS360s with the sub/speakers crossed over at 80hz with my MX119. This did not work well due to my room accoustics - the main issue is that I had a gigantic spike in bass at 25-30hz that I could not eliminate even with the ELF trim on the subs turned all the way down to -12db. I also had a dip in bass at 60hz that is probably a room related issue as well as I have been able to minimize it with fine tuning of speaker placement and listening position but I have not been able to eliminate it.

I then placed my subs behind my listening position more in the back 1/3 of the room along the side walls and I am getting a very nice, much more flat 20-80hz response now from my subs. I used the polarity and phase settings to dial in the subs with the mains while running test tones around the crossover point with the mains out of phase and finding the lowest volume of the tone. They now sound perfectly blended in and the sound has a very even response.

So to answer the question I think having the sub in the same plane with the mains is ideal if you can get even frequency response doing it that way, but otherwise I believe it is better to find the location in the room where you can have the best overall frequency response and use the polarity and phase controls from there.

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McIntosh MC501s, MC207, MX119 (w/TM1), LS360s, XR27, WS350s; JL Audio F113s
Denon AVR-A100; ModWright Oppo BDP-83; Bolder Squeezebox 3; Denon DP-62L w/Ortofon 2M Black
RealTraps; APS PurePower 2000; Wireworld SE and LAT International Cables

I think this is about as controversial as where do you part your hair

For me personally, the best results are obtained off axis from the main fronts. In four different environments I run dual subs in the rear, bellissimo!

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