Jdandy success, has me ready to hammer my system

KingRT · #1 (**permalink**) 06-10-2009, 11:18 PM

"Jdandy"
"Turns out zero, not inverted, is the best for the sub location. Repeating the same test frequencies again, I adjusted the phase control approximatley 10 degrees at a time through it's range, listening closely, and eventaully settled on 45 degrees as the sweet spot, with the gain setting very slightly reduced from its previous setting. I also spent some time reevaluating the low pass crossover point, and finally settled on 75 Hz as the smoothest transition that sounds the best. The results are well worth the time and effort. The Fathom is now as much a part of the musical presentation as the PMC EB1i's. The speakers and the sub coexist as though they are one. The bottom octaves are richer, the bass frequency textures are more vibrant, and the deep bottom authority creates a new dimension in the audio spectrum. I am very pleased with the total package. The Fathom f113 is well worth the price of admission."

You are having much better luck then me.
Any hz circa 80hz sounds slightly muddy without a crossover on my system.
Not sure why? I have the set up cds and a good understaning of the JL controls.
I have given up and set it to 40hz to 45hz and then can turn the master volume up more, since it takes more to hit 20 hz. But it does sound tacked on, to be honest

Is there anyone else who can confirm circa 80hz can be played without a crossover and sound better while duplicating/fighting the main speakers?

Dan has done it. But I am no where near his nirvana.
I purchased Kalman Rubinson external crossover on the "if" (His if)
I feel water boarded and have given up.

jdandy · #2 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 12:22 AM

KingRT.......The first thing that came to my mind after reading you post was perhaps the location is wrong. Your room is a speaker, too, and will exaggerate or null different frequencies based on the subwoofers interplay with walls, corners, furniture, etc. I would begin fresh with a new location, and go through the entire calibration and set up process again.

Try to look at the setup process as audio entertainment, rather than a tedious chore. Don't get impatient. Impatience only leads to frustration, and errors. Take a deep breath, find a new spot for the sub, and try again.

KingRT · #3 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy

KingRT.......The first thing that came to my mind after reading you post was perhaps the location is wrong. Your room is a speaker, too, and will exaggerate or null different frequencies based on the subwoofers interplay with walls, corners, furniture, etc. I would begin fresh with a new location, and go through the entire calibration and set up process again.

Try to look at the setup process as audio entertainment, rather than a tedious chore. Don't get impatient. Impatience only leads to frustration, and errors. Take a deep breath, find a new spot for the sub, and try again.

Unfortunately this 2 channel room only lends itself to one sub spot.
I have noticed, when I get it set up on a fav. Sacd to my ears, the next Sacd sounds like I need to hit the sub adjustments again, too smooth it out.
I will just play one cd forever, in each room!

jdandy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 05:05 PM

KingRT.......Are we talking about the system with the two F113 subs, or the system with the one f112 sub?

Also, what about acoustic panels, bass traps, etc. Do you have any acoustic treatment installed?

PHC1 · #5 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRT

Unfortunately this 2 channel room only lends itself to one sub spot.
I have noticed, when I get it set up on a fav. Sacd to my ears, the next Sacd sounds like I need to hit the sub adjustments again, too smooth it out.
I will just play one cd forever, in each room!

Recordings and musical styles will vary greatly. That's why the best approach is to setup the sub and blending with speakers as flat as you can with the test tones and SPL meter and then enjoy every recording for what it is. I don't think that subs are tone controls and will drive you crazy in no time if you treat them as such.

jdandy · #6 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHC1

Recordings and musical styles will vary greatly. That's why the best approach is to setup the sub and blending with speakers as flat as you can with the test tones and SPL meter and then enjoy every recording for what it is. I don't think that subs are tone controls and will drive you crazy in no time if you treat them as such.

Serge.......I couldn't agree more. My Fathom is smoothly integrated into the PMC's, and when I switch the sub in and out it is noticable in the lowest octave, but only slightly. Despite this, there are some recordings that have poorly recorded bass, or the room acoustics where the bass (acoustic bass, usually) was recorded substandard, or was not mic'd properly. What I have noticed on these recordings is that switching the sub out does not improve the poorly recorded audio. Basically, it is what it is.

I have begun to think that seperate left and right subs might be the best way to go. Still pondering that.

PHC1 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......
I have begun to think that seperate left and right subs might be the best way to go. Still pondering that.

I've shared my experience with first one then two Fathoms followed by an active crossover over on that other forum... Long story short, DO IT!

Run both as "masters" if you do, not master-slave... configuration. Stereo subs will enhance what you already experienced, not as much as going from no sub at all to a Fathom but yes, you will like the results for many reasons.

Masterlu · #8 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 07:33 PM

I had one Gotham for about a month or so, and couldn't wait till I got the 2nd. My personal experience of adding the 2nd Gotham was as profound as getting the 1st. This is in no way meant to stimulate others to buy a second sub. It is simply my opinion YMMV.

JFR0317 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterlu

This is in no way meant to stimulate others to buy a second sub.

Thank you. I am still recuperating from moving the one Gotham up the stairs to the theater!

PHC1 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-11-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFR0317

Thank you. I am still recuperating from moving the one Gotham up the stairs to the theater!

What doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger and meaner.....

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