AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Audio & Video > CD Players, Digital Music & Servers

CD Players, Digital Music & Servers Sooloos, Olive, Wadia, Sonos, to name a few

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:52 AM
redm's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 2,033
Default

Isn't that the way it always goes, I just buy a PWD, i havent even received it yet, and its obsolete.
__________________
Derek
Stereo Listening Room: B&W 802D, Mcintosh MC402, Stereo ASW750's, PS Audio PWD MKII, Outlets, and P5, WW SE Power, Speaker, and IC
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:57 AM
audiot servant's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Mac (a bit north of Sydney) Australia
Posts: 871
Default

Given the current state of digital with the likes of EMM would be interesting to know especially since Joe has had plenty to do with reference level preamps and also Doggiehowser with your REF5SE... would you think the better value/bigger impact comes from spending on preamps or on the digital (if that is not over simplifying the issue too much).

Doug... the word frustration has been synonymous with the word digital since about 1982 and the first CD released was an ABBA record.

Graham
__________________
We empty our minds, we empty our wallets, we kneel before the source and we drink deeply.
Main: Audirvana+Mac Air>WW Plat USB>Chord DAC>Shindo Aurieges L>Sanders Magtech>WWSE6 SCs>Magnepan 20.7 + Shunyata Cyclops>Z Anacondas Python Cobra PCs Cobra ICs, DFEs & Stillpoint Ultra 5 SS and Minis
Also: Audeze LCD2, AKG 702, Calyx DAC/CLPS, Violectric V200 Headphone Amp, Audioquest Dragonfly, WW SE6 ICs, Kimber 8tc SCs, Quicksilver GE 8417 Monos, Proac Response 2, Shunyata Hydra, Black Mamba HC PCs
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:57 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

If you bought the PWD mk2 - its not obsolete. In fact, the digital lens makes it one of the best on the market. Unless you need DSD (read: you've ripped your SACD's) - then DSD is not necessary today. There is so little DSD content right now. Just enjoy your new DAC. In 2 or 5 years, look up and see what's new. It's like computers - I'm still using a iphone from 3 generations ago and the ipad 2. My family keeps asking me when I'm going to upgrade (as soon as they hear about a new i device, they call me and ask me if I have it.) My iphone works fine and my ipad too. No need to upgrade. The same goes for DAC's. My MCD1100 was not only obsolete when I bought it - it wasn't working as advertised! But, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy it immensely.

If I was buying a DAC today, the PWD mk2 would be #1 on my list.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:59 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,448
Default

[QUOTE....the first CD released was an ABBA record.

Graham[/QUOTE]

Was it really? All these years I thought it was Kenny Rogers Greatest Hits (for true). ABBA? Oh man...I can't let my wife see that...she will never let me live it down.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:16 AM
audiot servant's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Mac (a bit north of Sydney) Australia
Posts: 871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbovaird
[QUOTE....the first CD released was an ABBA record.

Graham
Was it really? All these years I thought it was Kenny Rogers Greatest Hits (for true). ABBA? Oh man...I can't let my wife see that...she will never let me live it down.[/QUOTE]

I'll just check the album cover... Just kiddin..., I was more the Cure and the Smiths I swear :-)

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
__________________
We empty our minds, we empty our wallets, we kneel before the source and we drink deeply.
Main: Audirvana+Mac Air>WW Plat USB>Chord DAC>Shindo Aurieges L>Sanders Magtech>WWSE6 SCs>Magnepan 20.7 + Shunyata Cyclops>Z Anacondas Python Cobra PCs Cobra ICs, DFEs & Stillpoint Ultra 5 SS and Minis
Also: Audeze LCD2, AKG 702, Calyx DAC/CLPS, Violectric V200 Headphone Amp, Audioquest Dragonfly, WW SE6 ICs, Kimber 8tc SCs, Quicksilver GE 8417 Monos, Proac Response 2, Shunyata Hydra, Black Mamba HC PCs
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:48 PM
mraudio's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 216
Default

From Wikipedia:

"The first album to be released on CD was Billy Joel's 52nd Street, that reached the market alongside Sony's CD player CDP-101 on October 1, 1982 in Japan."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 01:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiot servant View Post
Was it really? All these years I thought it was Kenny Rogers Greatest Hits (for true). ABBA? Oh man...I can't let my wife see that...she will never let me live it down.
I'll just check the album cover... Just kiddin..., I was more the Cure and the Smiths I swear :-)

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado[/QUOTE]

Good man !
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
I love it with no desire to upgrade at the moment. I'd like to add the cd/sacd TSDX transport at some point, but it's not mandatory. Conventional wisdom favors the MSB dac, but as I add options, the pricing gets outrageous. I know in a year or two, the same performance will be had for a lot less. Look at the femto clock upgrades, it has already dropped 50% (from $10K to $5K) for the same audible performance. I bet if you were the one with a $10K clock, you would not be too happy right now.
Actually, Joe, MSB increased the price of the new Plus version of the Platinum IV DACs by around $5K, and included a less accurate version of the separate femtosecond clock (140fs vs 77fs for the Galaxy version). To upgrade to the Galaxy clock for $5K, you have to trade in the 140fs clock.

MSB must spend as much R&D on their pricing structures as they do on product development

MSB had to do this as their new Analog DAC, which I have heard, was better than the base Platinum IV (if not the two above) without the femtosecond clock technology.

I agree their pricing is outrageous. But I don't agree with the premise that DAC development follows the PC model where price halves for equivalent performance over a couple of years. Sure, DACs continue to be released with some sizzling specs, but this doesn't always correlate to sound quality.

To me much of this stuff sounds like small variations on a theme rather than any substantial differences, and I agree absolutely with Bakerman's earlier comment to this effect.

At last count, I have 12 DACs, and none are bad, and whilst all are a bit different, the differences are not as large as with any other component type.

But I have bought the MSB DAC because this one did sound on a totally different level, and particularly obvious on Redbook. And I bought it even though I find their pricing structure completely offensive. Yes, their DAC has to be expensive because it uses handmade discrete ladder DACs. But then you have to cough up a few thousand more for the power supply to run it, which is just greedy. Etc, etc, etc.

Is it worth the outrageous price? Only if you have everything else in your system where you want it to be
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:01 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glisse View Post
Actually, Joe, MSB increased the price of the new Plus version of the Platinum IV DACs by around $5K, and included a less accurate version of the separate femtosecond clock (140fs vs 77fs for the Galaxy version). To upgrade to the Galaxy clock for $5K, you have to trade in the 140fs clock.

MSB must spend as much R&D on their pricing structures as they do on product development

MSB had to do this as their new Analog DAC, which I have heard, was better than the base Platinum IV (if not the two above) without the femtosecond clock technology.

I agree their pricing is outrageous. But I don't agree with the premise that DAC development follows the PC model where price halves for equivalent performance over a couple of years. Sure, DACs continue to be released with some sizzling specs, but this doesn't always correlate to sound quality.

To me much of this stuff sounds like small variations on a theme rather than any substantial differences, and I agree absolutely with Bakerman's earlier comment to this effect.

At last count, I have 12 DACs, and none are bad, and whilst all are a bit different, the differences are not as large as with any other component type.

But I have bought the MSB DAC because this one did sound on a totally different level, and particularly obvious on Redbook. And I bought it even though I find their pricing structure completely offensive. Yes, their DAC has to be expensive because it uses handmade discrete ladder DACs. But then you have to cough up a few thousand more for the power supply to run it, which is just greedy. Etc, etc, etc.

Is it worth the outrageous price? Only if you have everything else in your system where you want it to be
I crave a full MSB stack but it probably will not happen for 18 months. I am happy for now.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:16 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11
Default

+1 - Another MSB fan here. I bought my Link DAClll about 15yrs ago. I never sold it because it was so cheap at the time, and it was an MSB!

Fast forward- I had since bought a Transporter (about 6yrs ago), and was using that as my server/dac until a couple of years ago when, on a lark to see if the MSB still worked, I rigged the MSB in as an outboard DAC to the Transporter.

Sure as shister, the MSB sounded 'analog' in comparison. NOS if you will. I believe that what I experienced was the MSB 'house sound'. Sure, it wasnt as 'refined' and 'civilized' as the Transporter. Toe tapping it was/is.

Fast forward some more - to today. Now I have the Gungnir. This DAC does both what the Transporter and el-cheapo MSB do well, and then some. Thats REAL progress.

Is it a 'good idea' to buy a non-upgradeable $10K DAC. Personally I cant see how it could be, of course, unless you are 'made of money', and like to impress your friends (nothing wrong with either one, by the way). Thats not me though. With that said, if I had half of that, I would spring for a current day MSB. I dont see how you could go wrong. Especially because they are upgradeable.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Follow @AudioAficionado
US iTunes, App Store, iBookstore, and Mac App Store
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
ęCopyright 2009-2014 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
VPI Industries
VPI Industries
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Sound Anchors
Sound Anchors
Acoustic Sounds Inc
Acoustic Sounds Inc
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
Steve Blinn Designs
Steve Blinn Designs
Krell
Krell
Wyred 4 Sound
Wyred 4 Sound
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
TAD Labs
TAD Labs
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Aerial Acoustics
Aerial Acoustics
Accuphase
Accuphase
Aluminati Sound
Aluminati Sound
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Delicious Decibels
Delicious Decibels